1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We agree to disagree...Jones goes missing when the heat is turned up far too often for my liking. 

Great Captains thrive on serious pressure

Whether or not Jones is real Captain material, few so far seems to be considering the effect of downgrading him early. Would it [censored] him off to the detriment of the team?  Would it make Viney go up another level?  Who knows, so is it worth the risk.  Does it matter if one co-captain is a bit 'weak'  if Viney is 'strong'?  

10 minutes ago, sue said:

Whether or not Jones is real Captain material, few so far seems to be considering the effect of downgrading him early. Would it [censored] him off to the detriment of the team?  Would it make Viney go up another level?  Who knows, so is it worth the risk.  Does it matter if one co-captain is a bit 'weak'  if Viney is 'strong'?  

What’s there to lose? We capitulate with monotonous regularity againt weak opposition due to poor leadership. This has cost us two finals series in a row. Other sides change their captains when required. Even Hawthorn with Hodge and Mitchell with no detrimental effect.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

15 minutes ago, america de cali said:

What’s there to lose? We capitulate with monotonous regularity againt weak opposition due to poor leadership. This has cost us two finals series in a row. Other sides change their captains when required. Even Hawthorn with Hodge and Mitchell with no detrimental effect.

What's to lose?  Jones is one of our best players FCS whether or not he is a good captain.  Now it may be that relieving him of the captaincy will improve him as a player, or not change him.  But what if he loses the fire that has made him the only player we could rely on all these years.  Can we really afford ot take the risk of losing such a player's motivation?  I'll leave it to the FD to decide what the risks vs benefits are and will be surprised if they agree with you.

29 minutes ago, sue said:

Whether or not Jones is real Captain material, few so far seems to be considering the effect of downgrading him early. Would it [censored] him off to the detriment of the team?  Would it make Viney go up another level?  Who knows, so is it worth the risk.  Does it matter if one co-captain is a bit 'weak'  if Viney is 'strong'?  

Having 2 Captains means neither is 100% in charge. 

It's time

I think the love for Viney has a little whiff of the old 'but imagine what they WILL be, not what they are now' to it.

I'm not convinced that as captain he takes everyone with him. Too aware of his own importance, in that youthful way.

Jones has a humility to him. To go along with being by far our most consistent player, an absolutely professional trainer, and tangible demonstrating what continuous improvement and the diligence and honesty to recognise his flaws and work to correct them.

Jones is the role model our team needs.

As for on the field on game day, there's no doubting his work rate but it is also true that he doesn't have the capacity to turn the tide of a game. He isn't the decisive organiser or the dangerous break-through player.

However, if others stepped up, I don't think that limitation of Jones' would matter at all.

I think we need better spreads from contests, better kicking and more effective leading and marking, so much more than we need to blink about our captain.

 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Having 2 Captains means neither is 100% in charge. 

It's time

I'd just add that to the list of pros and cons for the FD to consider. I don't think any one factor is a knock-out blow to support your view.

Just now, sue said:

I'd just add that to the list of pros and cons for the FD to consider. I don't think any one factor is a knock-out blow to support your view.

Well then be ready for another year just like the last 2....

50 minutes ago, america de cali said:

No criticism of Jones personal game but he is the senior co-captain and he when it gets tough he is too passive. All the standing up to the opposing argy bargy is left to the likes of Viney, Lewis, Vince, Bugg etc. These guys stand up for their teammates and also get suspended occasionally because they push the limits. Jones rarely sails close to the wind in supporting and firing up his team mates. Always in the background when the going gets tough. 

Jumper punches and pushing and shoving is not when the 'going gets tough.'  He's been our toughest player, with head over the ball and winning it at the coalface for the better part of the last decade.  He is tough enough to be our only contested ball winning midfielder for years - the guy is as tough as they come.

If you want leadership like Bugg, Lewis and Vince showed this year where they hit people off the ball, then I think you're contributing to the problem.  It is a core group of senior players who need to make a greater contribution to the onfield leadership, not Jones.  I don't see how we improve our leadership by demoting our captain.

17 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Jumper punches and pushing and shoving is not when the 'going gets tough.'  He's been our toughest player, with head over the ball and winning it at the coalface for the better part of the last decade.  He is tough enough to be our only contested ball winning midfielder for years - the guy is as tough as they come.

.

and yet, maybe its just me but that's a totally different thing to being Captain; the whole point of this thread.

Ive not issue with him being noted as a very good contributing player ( in the main )  I just don;t see the real game day leading out there...rallying of the troops etc. Tbh sometimes I dont even see him for a whole qtr ( but then hes not alone there )

He comes across as one of the most  intro-type players going around.It all seems quite surreal at times actually.

I realy cant see him being a happy chappy if his badge is taken off of him,  but there comes a time. No one thought less of Nick when he stood down, quite the opposite actually.

Real leaders know when its time to allow another to do the job.

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Real leaders know when its time to allow another to do the job.

So if he resigns then he should be captain?

43 minutes ago, sue said:

What's to lose?  Jones is one of our best players FCS whether or not he is a good captain.  Now it may be that relieving him of the captaincy will improve him as a player, or not change him.  But what if he loses the fire that has made him the only player we could rely on all these years.  Can we really afford ot take the risk of losing such a player's motivation?  I'll leave it to the FD to decide what the risks vs benefits are and will be surprised if they agree with you.

I don’t think he would be the type but if cracked the sooks because the captaincy was taken off him then he’s not the type of player we need going forward  anyway. 

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

I have a hell of a lot of time for Jones as a player but I think he would be best as a player and not captain. I decided this at half time during the collingwood game but before that was happy with him as captain. I am also against co captaincy. It is a job for one.

2 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I don’t think he would be the type but if cracked the sooks because the captaincy was taken off him them he s not the type of player we need going forward  anyway. 

Well he cracked the sooks about being a co-captain so it makes you wonder!

2 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Well he cracked the sooks about being a co-captain so it makes you wonder!

I did not pay much attention then but his game still has been good. If it does affect his game negatively losing more leadership responsibility  then he is a problem we don’t need. 

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

5 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I did not pay much attention then but his game still has been good. If it does affect his game negatively losing more leadership responsibility  then he is a problem we don’t need. 

His game was good at the absolute worst time, though. Proving a point in Round 2 means nothing if you can't play like a leader in the club's most important game for a decade. He and those around him let a second-string midfield control the game. He escapes criticism far too much.

15 minutes ago, sue said:

So if he resigns then he should be captain?

Im sorry...what ?

19 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Well he cracked the sooks about being a co-captain so it makes you wonder!

Did he really have a sook or was it more a tad shocked by being blindsided?

Just now, Demon77 said:

Did he really have a sook or was it more a tad shocked by being blindsided?

Apparently he sooked/wasn't happy. Well documented 

Just now, SFebey said:

Apparently he sooked/wasn't happy. Well documented 

Cheers, can't remember so far back, so much crap has gone on since.

Just now, SFebey said:

Apparently he sooked/wasn't happy. Well documented 

A well documented 'sook' should be supported by a link.

He was, understandably, disappointed when first told.

 

Don't slander a great of our club.

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

A well documented 'sook' should be supported by a link.

He was, understandably, disappointed when first told.

 

Don't slander a great of our club.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nathan-jones-miffed-by-melbourne-demons-captaincy-move-20170320-gv2k4k.html

Happened on the golf course, Goodwin spoke about it on SEN a while back also.

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nathan-jones-miffed-by-melbourne-demons-captaincy-move-20170320-gv2k4k.html

Happened on the golf course, Goodwin spoke about it on SEN a while back also.

"Melbourne's Nathan Jones has revealed he was initially disappointed by the move to share the Demons' captaincy with young star Jack Viney."

"(But) I was really conscious and aware of not letting that influence my professionalism, leadership and training standards or impact on the playing group."

 

So where is the 'well documented" sook??

21 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Well he cracked the sooks about being a co-captain so it makes you wonder!

Cracked the sooks?  Expressed disappointment as it obviously means a lot to him. Sometimes it is not necessararily the outcome but how it is communicated or handled. 

Unless Nathan decided to resign of his own accord he should be kept in the job. He is the heart and sole of the club and other than Viney there is not another candidate. Viney alone? Prefer not,  in fact I would prefer him to play without having the sole responsibility of being Captain.

Removing Jones could badly back fire. He has shouldered a huge responsibility over the years and stood tall when others have withered and lost their mojo. 

He deserves the respect of the club and its supporters. Treating him otherwise would send all the wrong messages and reflect poorly on the clubs values. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

"Melbourne's Nathan Jones has revealed he was initially disappointed by the move to share the Demons' captaincy with young star Jack Viney."

"(But) I was really conscious and aware of not letting that influence my professionalism, leadership and training standards or impact on the playing group."

 

So where is the 'well documented" sook??

I'm not getting into semantics about this, interpret it how you like. As I said, Goodwin said as much on SEN, he revealed to Jones in a game of gold with the McDonald boys. Jones is rated way too highly around here by his fan club.

3 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Cracked the sooks?  Expressed disappointment as it obviously means a lot to him. Sometimes it is not necessararily the outcome but how it is communicated or handled. 

Unless Nathan decided to resign of his own accord he should be kept in the job. He is the heart and sole of the club and other than Viney there is not another candidate. Viney alone? Prefer not,  in fact I would prefer him to play without having the sole responsibility of being Captain.

Removing Jones could badly back fire. He has shouldered a huge responsibility over the years and stood tall when others have withered and lost their mojo. 

He deserves the respect of the club and its supporters. Treating him otherwise would send all the wrong messages and reflect poorly on the clubs values. 

 

 

According to this, sounds like it was planned for a longer term thing anyway.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/melbourne-announce-nathan-jones-and-jack-viney-as-cocaptain/news-story/4be2136943a75f5d5590508b62a99bde