40 minutes ago, mo64 said:

How is it a gamble trading a player with no top 3 B&F placings in 9 years? 

There is just too much emotional attachment to Watts.

It's unbelievable.

Some of the hysteria around here you would think we were trading out Patrick Dangerfield or Lance Franklin.  You will notice that it's not huge news in the footy world.

He is just not that good and certainly not good enough to amend your standards to accommodate him. 

There are a few that have a huge blind spot when it comes to this player. 

Edited October 7, 20178 yr by Guest

I have lived through the exit of many good quality players from the MFC - Stan Alves, Greg Wells, Ross Brewer, Gerard Healy, Earl Spalding, Alan Jakovich, Shane Woewodin, Jeff Farmer, Scott Thompson, Junior McDonald, Tom Scully, Jeremy Howe and now, possibly Jack Watts (I'm sure there are many I have forgotten to mention). Many of those players went on to be successful clubs and some got to play in Premiership teams. Most Demons supporters were sad, disappointed, angry and sometimes distraught (or a mixture of several emotions) at the loss of these players at the time they left. 

It is fascinating to see the emotional reaction to the possibility of Jack being moved on. It feels like it is more divisive than any of these others. If you look at the poll on this post it would seem pretty clear that a majority would like him to stay and that some of those who think it is best for him to move on are nonetheless, still sad about it. It seems that "there's something about Jack". We have all invested a great deal of hope and good wishes towards this young man. He just seems like a lovely young bloke who happens to have tremendous talent. On the one hand, we feel bad that he has had to suffer so much public scrutiny and derision but we are also frustrated that he has never been able to be the player that we wanted him to be.

A friend of mine (a Geelong supporter), has been ranting at me for the past seven years about how "Melbourne will never be any good while they still have Jack Watts!" That he symbolises all that is soft and unprofessional about the club and that "he will not go when its his turn to go". (A Geelong mantra from their recent successful period). I have always replied with, "Yes that's true but I would rather the ball in his hands than any other player." I would staunchly defend him from the emotional part of my being as well as the tribal loyalty to the Dees. It's weird how these attacks on him have elicited this emotional response from so many of us. Now it looks like the club may be fed up with him and are questioning the same courage and resolve that my Geelong friend has. For many of us, this is really hard to take. It may be the right thing to do for the future of the club and building a winning culture but it may also be fracturing in the short term. We just don't know. 

The one thing most of us agree on is that we don't like seeing Jack being publicly rejected by a club that has been his home since 2008. It is very difficult to watch a person having their character and reputation denigrated in front of the whole community. I feel very sad about it but also acknowledge that, it may be, for the good of the club and the player. We just don't know yet. If he goes to Collingwood or Geelong it will be hard to watch him realise his potential at the new club. It will be even harder, and more heartbreaking, if he disappears in to obscurity and suffers as a person. For that reason I wish him all the success in the future.

Edited October 7, 20178 yr by btdemon

Tiger supporters were moaning about losing Lids, their soft edge, 12 months later, they hold a flag, a first round pick  and a 3 round pick,  does Lids regret it,  probably, do the Tigers still debate it, probably not.

Leaving any argument aside about the choice to trade him i feel really, really upset about jack leaving.

36 minutes ago, sue said:

Basing this discussion on specific incidents is silly.  But I can't resist pointing out that Watts had the pressure of blokes like you looking over his shoulder.  You also forget that he saved a goal at the other end so he seems to have got to the right position twice.

Not to forget blokes like the coach, captain & FD looking over him.....and they know a lot more than you or I 

15 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I'll just leave these here...

Well in light of these "startling" stats I am of the opinion that the Goodwin coaching staff and Footy Dept are in Sgt. Shultz land

" I Know Nothing"!

The more I think about it the more I believe the club is making a Cataclysmic error trading JW! Period!

21 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Not to forget blokes like the coach, captain & FD looking over him.....and they know a lot more than you or I 

well we agree on something then.

19 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Well in light of these "startling" stats I am of the opinion that the Goodwin coaching staff and Footy Dept are in Sgt. Shultz land

" I Know Nothing"!

The more I think about it the more I believe the club is making a Cataclysmic error trading JW! Period!

Ok, if you are such an officianado of the game, tell me how the first 2 stats are measured?

Just now, sue said:

well we agree on something then.

Which is even more reason to back their decision isn't it? As I've said, there is a lot more to this story than we know, I expect it to come out over the summer or next year.

So am i right in thinking that apart from N. Jones, that is all players gone from “186” 2011?

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

 

Of course this trade will be judged on how he performs and how the asset we get performs.

To think otherwise is naive.

I agree RPFC but it may take several years to identify the value of the trade.

Not that demonlanders will accept that. Emotions will get the better of them.

There can be wins on both sides of trades

Judd & Kennedy/Masten who won that trade and think how it changed each season in terms of who gained

Vince & pick 23 Matt Crouch has turned where we were ahead for 2 seasons bit  Crouch development in 18 months has been outstanding

The Hawks trade for O"Meara doesn't look great at the moment but lets look back in a year or two 

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

So am i right in thinking that apart from N. Jones, that is all players gone from “186” 2011?

Garland the only other 

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Of course it isn't black and white, which makes your initial comment ridiculous. And Hibberd came a year after Howe left, so that's irrelevant.

Imagine if Watts wins a B&F at his new club in his 2nd year, while his replacement is languishing in the seconds. You'll want the FD sacked. Well that is exactly that case with the Bernie Vince trade, who won a B&F in his 2nd year at MFC. Adelaide acquired M. Crouch with that pick, who did little in his initial 2 years, but won a B&F in his 4th.

And you also have to factor in the salary cap space that is freed up with Watts leaving.

I won't want the FD sacked - what posting history would make you think that?

But to argue that 'how Watts goes at his new to club is irrelevant' is a fairly weak argument.

If we can criticise the Howe trade, we can criticise this.

 

3 minutes ago, reynolds46 said:

Garland the only other 

Yes you are right, but i will be suprised if Colin G plays seniors again

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I won't want the FD sacked - what posting history would make you think that?

But to argue that 'how Watts goes at his new to club is irrelevant' is a fairly weak argument.

If we can criticise the Howe trade, we can criticise this.

 

And that's my issue with you. You are constantly putting Roos on a pedestal, and giving Goodwin a whack whenever you can. 

You've never criticised Roos for trading Howe, but want to scrutinise the result of the Watts trade to the nth degree, when most on here realise that it will take many years before it can be measured.

13 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Which is even more reason to back their decision isn't it? As I've said, there is a lot more to this story than we know, I expect it to come out over the summer or next year.

How do you know there is more than we know?

Just now, sue said:

How do you know there is more than we know?

There always usually is, we aren't privy to the 4 walls stuff, however I do know Jack liked to frequent Southbank establishments 

38 minutes ago, btdemon said:

I have lived through the exit of many good quality players from the MFC - Stan Alves, Greg Wells, Ross Brewer, Gerard Healy, Earl Spalding, Alan Jakovich, Shane Woewodin, Jeff Farmer, Scott Thompson, Junior McDonald, Tom Scully, Jeremy Howe and now, possibly Jack Watts (I'm sure there are many I have forgotten to mention). Many of those players went on to be successful clubs and some got to play in Premiership teams. Most Demons supporters were sad, disappointed, angry and sometimes distraught (or a mixture of several emotions) at the loss of these players at the time they left. 

It is fascinating to see the emotional reaction to the possibility of Jack being moved on. It feels like it is more divisive than any of these others. If you look at the poll on this post it would seem pretty clear that a majority would like him to stay and that some of those who think it is best for him to move on are nonetheless, still sad about it. It seems that "there's something about Jack". We have all invested a great deal of hope and good wishes towards this young man. He just seems like a lovely young bloke who happens to have tremendous talent. On the one hand, we feel bad that he has had to suffer so much public scrutiny and derision but we are also frustrated that he has never been able to be the player that we wanted him to be.

A friend of mine (a Geelong supporter), has been ranting at me for the past seven years about how "Melbourne will never be any good while they still have Jack Watts!" That he symbolises all that is soft and unprofessional about the club and that "he will not go when its his turn to go". (A Geelong mantra from their recent successful period). I have always replied with, "Yes that's true but I would rather the ball in his hands than any other player." I would staunchly defend him from the emotional part of my being as well as the tribal loyalty to the Dees. It's weird how these attacks on him have elicited this emotional response from so many of us. Now it looks like the club may be fed up with him and are questioning the same courage and resolve that my Geelong friend has. For many of us, this is really hard to take. It may be the right thing to do for the future of the club and building a winning culture but it may also be fracturing in the short term. We just don't know. 

The one thing most of us agree on is that we don't like seeing Jack being publicly rejected by a club that has been his home since 2008. It is very difficult to watch a person having their character and reputation denigrated in front of the whole community. I feel very sad about it but also acknowledge that, it may be, for the good of the club and the player. We just don't know yet. If he goes to Collingwood or Geelong it will be hard to watch him realise his potential at the new club. It will be even harder, and more heartbreaking, if he disappears in to obscurity and suffers as a person. For that reason I wish him all the success in the future.

Great post.

What I also find interesting in this debate is to observe the settings/views on the importance people apply to the human stuff v technical (clinical list management) stuff.

It provides a very revealing insight into the respective personalities with whom we interact on a regular basis.

You're clearly in the human stuff brigade.

This is the territory that the great sport journalists like to interrogate. It's what makes supporting clubs like ours real.

Albeit unlikely, I hope Watts stays with the club and one day holds the premiership cup aloft. Rich narrative in that. Particularly from where we now sit.

 

3 hours ago, No10 said:

I'm watching that v Coll goal, again.

Amazing when you think what Danger said about Watts being one of the games best finishes, "when he has the ball inside 50 you back him in" (Trac knew it too)

Hope he goes to Geel.

He will star for Geelong.  They won't expect him to do what we do, and he will have Dangerfield, Selwood, Ablett around him and just have to slot in and do his bit.  And if he does star it doesn't mean that he would have with MFC.

 

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Great post.

What I also find interesting in this debate is to observe the settings/views on the importance people apply to the human stuff v technical (clinical list management) stuff.

It provides a very revealing insight into the respective personalities with whom we interact on a regular basis.

You're clearly in the human stuff brigade.

This is the territory that the great sport journalists like to interrogate. It's what makes supporting clubs like ours real.

Albeit unlikely, I hope Watts stays with the club and one day holds the premiership cup aloft. Rich narrative in that. Particularly from where we now sit.

 

Mr Burgundy i can feel your pain. But this has to be Jack’s doing

The club wouldn’t be doing this for any other reason. Goodwin has set his standards and JW isn’t reaching them or is flaunting them. It has to be one of the 2

if Goodwin relents now we are back to being an irrelevant joke. 

Even in the last week, maybe Jack just doesn’t get it?

hopefully Jesse can play the Watts role...

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

hopefully Jesse can play the Watts role...

and kick to himself?

Just now, sue said:

and kick to himself?

No. TMac will be down forward. I have been told that from within. 

This is why the Lever trade is pivotal. Without it i doubt Jack would be up for sale

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. TMac will be down forward. I have been told that from within. 

This is why the Lever trade is pivotal. Without it i doubt Jack would be up for sale

I was making ironic reference to the understanding that was developing between Watts and Hogan, not assuming that we will field a team of 17.   (I'd rather TMac kick at goals than try to pass to anyone).

Edited October 7, 20178 yr by sue

3 minutes ago, sue said:

I was making ironic reference to the understanding that was developing between Watts and Hogan, not assuming that we will field a team of 17.   (I'd rather TMac kick at goals than try to pass to anyone).

Jesse will be much better on the roam. I always think he looks like a caged lion when in the goalsquare

7 minutes ago, sue said:

and kick to himself?

I don't know 

I'd back us in to find another half forward outsider with silky skills ...one that might be self motivated.

One that doesn't require our coaching dept to be Mensa members to figure out how to extract maximum performance from the player.