3 minutes ago, Luther said:

The irony is that posters keep saying they want May because he is a bigger type of defender than the ones we have. He's not.

Personally I don't think recruiting May would solve many problems. 

I think there are many that appreciate May and Lever types are BETTER defenders.

Our defence needs to get better if we're to compete at top 4 level.

3 hours ago, Luther said:

The irony is that posters keep saying they want May because he is a bigger type of defender than the ones we have. He's not.

Personally I don't think recruiting May would solve many problems. 

But he is bigger. Bigger in that he plays with much more physicality and aggression than any of our defenders. And he is also a bigger and stronger build than any of our defenders.

May would be perfect because he'd allow T-Mac to do what he does best. Intercept spoil and mark.

Atm when Tom plays defence, it looks as though he feels like he needs to be superman and stop everything. Which is part of why he is making errors and is only further evidence that Oscar is untrustworthy. How many defenders do we see go up to spoil the same ball? Tom plays his best footy when his role is simplified and is allowed to stick to his strengths.

We're a rabble back there because Frost and Oscar are unable to hold those key posts as well as we need. 

Frost is another who needs a simplified role to play his best. But part of that is because he is limited in his football-specific attributes.

Get someone like May in and we solve many problems.

 

Edited May 30, 20177 yr by stevethemanjordan

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I think there are many that appreciate May and Lever types are BETTER defenders.

Our defence needs to get better if we're to compete at top 4 level.

I agree that they're better defenders than the guys we have, no issues there. But at this stage I think it's more important to look and recruit elsewhere - some more midfield pace and a back up ruckman. Our defence will get better with development.

Another issue with recruiting May is how to integrate him into the zone defence that we play.

Just now, Luther said:

I agree that they're better defenders than the guys we have, no issues there. But at this stage I think it's more important to look and recruit elsewhere - some more midfield pace and a back up ruckman. Our defence will get better with development.

Another issue with recruiting May is how to integrate him into the zone defence that we play.

Have no problem looking elsewhere. If anything our track record suggests we wont go shopping in main st, not unless someone drops by for a coffee.

We have a sort of missing man/ missing link to our preferred setup.

 something like 

Hibberd Tmac Hunt

Jetta  PosVac. Frost

Get the right bloke that becomes a lot more than servicable.

Im not that fussed...as long as whoever it is can hold down that role.

4 minutes ago, Luther said:

Another issue with recruiting May is how to integrate him into the zone defence that we play.

He plays in a zone defence at Gold Coast...

The caveat is ..though ostensibly we play zone the game still requires you to physically man up at times. 

THIS is often when we bleed goals

This HAS to change 

I just don't see key position defenders as being our weakness at this point in time. We have one (Tom) who is borderline A grade and two (Frost & Oscar) who are on their way to becoming very good players. Keep in mind that Frost & Oscar have played only 47 & 25 games respectively, they are very inexperienced. Throw in some flexibility from the likes of Hibberd and Joel Smith, and we are okay down there. Sure, May would make us better, but it will be a marginal, short term improvement, for a big cost.

I think our midfield still needs more depth, particularly on the outside, and this would be my focus. Plus another marking forward if we can find one.

Oscar may or may not develop into a decent defender. Thats years off at best... currently he's just not that good and in deep defence is often the weakest link.

That just is....it might be different in later 2018/2019

How many games do ppl want to lose ?

Not because of Oscar but because we're playing underdeveloped types in various positions . Let them develop and FORCE their way in.

Lets improve the list ,lets better our bottom ganeday 6. Lets plug gaps with quality rtr.

6 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

But he is bigger. Bigger in that he plays with much more physicality and aggression than any of our defenders. And he is also a bigger and stronger build than any of our defenders.

May would be perfect because he'd allow T-Mac to do what he does best. Intercept spoil and mark.

Atm when Tom plays defence, it looks as though he feels like he needs to be superman and stop everything. Which is part of why he is making errors. Tom plays his best footy when his role is simplified and is allowed to stick to his strengths.

We're a rabble back there because Frost and Oscar are unable to hold those key posts as well as we need. 

Frost is another who needs a simplified role to play his best. But part of that is because he is limited in his football-specific attributes.

Get someone like May in and we solve many problems.

 

Our defence has been very unsettled this year due to the injuries and suspensions of Gawn and Hogan. I doubt we would think this is our major problem if we had have played with Tom McDonald and Frost as our key defenders every week and with Gawn coming back to help out. While Frost and Tom McDonald are not good kicks, IMO both are decent defensively in the air and they are both extremely athletic which makes them hard to beat on the ground.

Clearly Oscar isn't up to AFL yet, but he has some good attributes - height, elite endurance and decent natural skill level. He plays golf off a handicap of 3 and is a better kick than his brother. He times his spoils fairly well also. He mostly lacks strength and intensity and his decision making is poor, all of which is common for young key position players.

This is not saying we shouldn't go after May, but he is a player in hot demand and will cost a lot in salary and picks. Personally, I feel we could add to our team in other areas at less cost.

The other point I would make is that two key defenders is enough with Gawn in the side IMO.

27 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

But he is bigger. Bigger in that he plays with much more physicality and aggression than any of our defenders. And he is also a bigger and stronger build than any of our defenders.

May would be perfect because he'd allow T-Mac to do what he does best. Intercept spoil and mark.

Atm when Tom plays defence, it looks as though he feels like he needs to be superman and stop everything. Which is part of why he is making errors. Tom plays his best footy when his role is simplified and is allowed to stick to his strengths.

We're a rabble back there because Frost and Oscar are unable to hold those key posts as well as we need. 

Frost is another who needs a simplified role to play his best. But part of that is because he is limited in his football-specific attributes.

Get someone like May in and we solve many problems.

 

I must be watching a completely different team. Because the games I've seen Frost play he has been more than capable. The odd clanger but you name me a backman that doesn't make a mistake?

Frost dominated Tex Walker & I think he is only exposed when TMac has to ruck. As soon as we get a Ruckman back you'll find our defence is not as doom and gloom as a lot are saying..

Edited May 30, 20177 yr by Mud Dogs Gonna Win

10 minutes ago, poita said:

two (Frost & Oscar) who are on their way to becoming very good players. 

 

Debatable. 

 

1 minute ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

I must be watching a completely different team. Because the games I've seen Frost play he has been more than capable. The odd clanger but you name me a backman that doesn't make a mistake?

Frost dominated Tex Walker & I think he is only exposed when TMac has to ruck. As soon as we get a Ruckman back you'll find our defence is not as doom and gloom as a lot our saying..

I don't think it's doom and gloom at all. Yes weve played been unsettled down there. Were a bit unsettled everyw currently.

To md the defence is close...but not quite there.

For want of a bettet description lets call the missing man FB.

We just dont have for mine a aviable one.  Tom when supported plays the Half Back ok. Still has some issue but with Hibberd Hunt and Frost he's better. Jetta plays the Jetta role.

Oscar and Frost for mine are the sharers of that role. The FB role i think is unfilled.

Fill it.. we're a serious wall.

Sam McClure reporting May will sign at GC in the next few weeks 

Injuries allowing, we're going to be playing a 22 something like this at the end of this year:

B: Jetta TMac Hibberd
HB: Hunt Frost J.Smith
C: Salem Oliver Lewis
HF: Petracca Pedersen Hannan
F: Garlett Hogan Watts
R: Gawn Jones Viney
I: Vince Tyson Melksham Stretch

OMac and Weid aren't in that team.  I just don't see the great need for May or Lever.  If they push someone out of that back-line then we end up with one less mid and that's less balanced IMO.  There's Brayshaw and VDB to hopefully get over their injuries too.

I think more midfield class and tall forward is more important.

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

He plays in a zone defence at Gold Coast...

And gets beaten one-out by small forwards. But he uses his body well.

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Injuries allowing, we're going to be playing a 22 something like this at the end of this year:

B: Jetta TMac Hibberd
HB: Hunt Frost J.Smith
C: Salem Oliver Lewis
HF: Petracca Pedersen Hannan
F: Garlett Hogan Watts
R: Gawn Jones Viney
I: Vince Tyson Melksham Stretch

OMac and Weid aren't in that team.  I just don't see the great need for May or Lever.  If they push someone out of that back-line then we end up with one less mid and that's less balanced IMO.  There's Brayshaw and VDB to hopefully get over their injuries too.

I think more midfield class and tall forward is more important.

My opinion is that we need another good ball user in the back half.

Hibberd is the only elite user in that line up, Jetta not to bad, Frost & Tommy Mac poor the others a bit hit and miss.

I'm also not convinced with the idea of Frost & Tommy holding up the key posts...

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

My opinion is that we need another good ball user in the back half.

Hibberd is the only elite user in that line up, Jetta not to bad, Frost & Tommy Mac poor the others a bit hit and miss.

I'm also not convinced with the idea of Frost & Tommy holding up the key posts...

I've got Salem and Lewis named on the wings for that very reason.

When I look at that line-up I see Vince, Lewis and Jones nearer to the end than the start and likewise for Pedersen.  TMac and Frost are both yet to hit their prime.

Mid and forward are where the issues are IMO.

I think the push for may is that each year you want to add something that becomes a 'best 22' automatic.

See Hibberd, Michael and Lewis, Jordan in 2017. I think Hannan, Mitch could well be the same - but he was a speculative pick; another Jason Taylor masterstroke.

Would May be best 22 for us? 100%. But if Maclure is right and he is about to sign up at GC17 (which he really should, as he's their skipper plus Ablett is leaving and thus clearing a lot of cap space for them) then we have to look elsewhere.

Our tall defenders are T Mac, Frost, O Mac, Keilty with Garland, J Smith, Hibberd at a pinch - but really they're more rebounders.

None are overly tall nor capable of particularly strong one-on-one contests...but all have strengths / weaknesses.

A best 22 key defender would be a fantastic addition to the side - May, Lever, Trengove - and is something most fans are baying for in 2018.

I'm definitely keen on Trengove as a free agent personally.

7 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

I think the push for may is that each year you want to add something that becomes a 'best 22' automatic.

See Hibberd, Michael and Lewis, Jordan in 2017. I think Hannan, Mitch could well be the same - but he was a speculative pick; another Jason Taylor masterstroke.

Would May be best 22 for us? 100%. But if Maclure is right and he is about to sign up at GC17 (which he really should, as he's their skipper plus Ablett is leaving and thus clearing a lot of cap space for them) then we have to look elsewhere.

Our tall defenders are T Mac, Frost, O Mac, Keilty with Garland, J Smith, Hibberd at a pinch - but really they're more rebounders.

None are overly tall nor capable of particularly strong one-on-one contests...but all have strengths / weaknesses.

A best 22 key defender would be a fantastic addition to the side - May, Lever, Trengove - and is something most fans are baying for in 2018.

I'm definitely keen on Trengove as a free agent personally.

Trengove is a similar but inferior player to Tom McDonald IMO.

27 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm also not convinced with the idea of Frost & Tommy holding up the key posts...

So if we acquired May you'd trade one of them?

15 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Trengove is a similar but inferior player to Tom McDonald IMO.

And the Port Adelaide supporter would say the exact opposite.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Lets improve the list ,lets better our bottom ganeday 6. Lets plug gaps with quality rtr.

That's what I'm thinking. The team has great depth throughout the whole list. Most times when we turn up our worst six are kids with great potential who can't play 4 quarters yet. Often they're not stars, but we sort of already have the talent at the pointy end. Hogan, Oliver, Trac, Viney, Gawn... I'd pit them against any teams best five in two years.

That's I think why so many are in the Lever camp. We don't need to do a Salem/Tyson trade. We don't need to roll heaps of players into the team to get a list together. If we do go for a big time free agent or trade, make it a Lever type., but failing that... I really hope the club develops the players we already have.

I have a bad feeling that if we did get May, we'd have to give up our first rounder... likely to be around pick 8-10... or even worse... We'd have to trade away, say, a couple of Kent, Harmes, Spencer, AVB or ANB... Each one of those guys could go on to play 100 games. ANB and Harmes possibly a lot more. That's just bad numbers for us. Giving up players with big AFL futures in terms of games played and potential, for just a few seasons of a good player.

Whether it's May or someone else I think the McDonalds and Frost are too flaky to rely on if you're on the cusp of a grand final.

I definitely think a quality key defender in the May and Hurley mould is a necessity.

Btw, Rance is in the conversation for best ever key defender.  He's 194cm.  

May's height is fine, especially with his strong body and reading of the play.  

That said, with Gawn's return imminent I'm not averse to improvising with Pedersen down back.  I like him more as a defender than stay at home forward.

Also, Weideman is also struggling, but he's a smart footballer with good hands.  I'd give him a crack in defence at Casey and see how he goes.  It only has to be for this season, but he may prove his worth as a defender and be a viable option at AFL level later in the year.

Edited May 30, 20177 yr by ProDee

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

He plays in a zone defence at Gold Coast...

But we don't use the Twilight Zone.

Fact is, not one game we've lost this year has been lost because of the back six.

We still need another four or five guys who can RELIABLY play in the midfield and/or play a role running between the arcs, and who can maintain an AFL standard of both skills and intensity from week to week. Some of those four or five might be on the list already (I have hopes for Brayshaw, Stretch, ANB, Harmes, Kent, Bugg, etc.) but until a bunch of them prove their worth week after week after week, we're still going to have those down games that cost us dearly.

And it's not gonna be the fault of the defence.