16 minutes ago, Redleg said:

They usually don't. Didn't hear umpiring mentioned in Goodwin's presser either.

Sounds like Scott has wasted no time to whinge it up as usual though. Never gets him into trouble , in fact it may be why the umps go easy on them.

The AFL seems to be hypersensitive to anything that might tarnish their precious image, and Scott knows exactly how far he can push them.

It's all part of the AFL plan to equalise the ladder....

Can think of no other explaination for numerous appalling decisions 

5 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

Being at the ground, it looked like Norf were into us all day, and we copped the Umpiring from hell.

Reading the reports, it sounds like we started the niggle, and what I observed were retaliations.  Maybe we started something we didn't understand - we started with a bit of niggle, and the umps were off-side to us all day.  Any small thing, they were already convinced that we were the baddies and had to be punished.  Norf were the poor suffering little angels that had to be protected.  No wonder they were joking at 3/4 time.  And any time they punched us?  Just fair payback.

I was howling blue murder in the stands - but what if it was stupidity of our own design?

You say the umps were off-side to us all day; this has been happening for years.  How is it our players get legged three times in one match and nothing happens except free kick to norf, how can you say it was our own stupidity? Why do we pay for memberships each bloody year to watch our club take this #$&* If we sit hear and say it's our own fault and keep putting up with it year in year out we might as well fold.

I want some one to go through the whole match and see what free kicks if any were ours and what free kicks norf should not have got?

Because i can tell you one thing people at the match me included have had a gut full of these bias umps and one if it keeps happening people will not bother following the Melbourne football and good 40.000 members for next year; and two why would players want to play with us if all they keep getting is smashed each week by this #$%*.

 

I don't think umpires are the problem I think it comes from higher up.yes yesterday  there was 4-5 blatant errors and it seemed we were always on the wrong end of the 50/50s.

I have said it once and I'll say it again, last years grand final was the worst umpired game in recent finals history. If I was Sydney I would still not be over it. AFL needs to do something about how they are training/managing umpires soon.

Salem will cop 3 weeks down to 2  for his elbow on Higgins.

Norf will file a fraudulent doctor's report like another club we know and the MRP will rely on the report rather than the incident on it's merit.

4 minutes ago, DaveyJones'sLocker said:

I don't think umpires are the problem I think it comes from higher up.yes yesterday  there was 4-5 blatant errors and it seemed we were always on the wrong end of the 50/50s.

I have said it once and I'll say it again, last years grand final was the worst umpired game in recent finals history. If I was Sydney I would still not be over it. AFL needs to do something about how they are training/managing umpires soon.

i've said it a hundred times and will continue to. umpiring will only make significant improvement when they have full-time (more) independent professional umpires. Not only will it improve the standard of umpiring but it would give the umpiring fraternity better input into the framing and interpretation of rules and provide a better checks and balances to the afl's impetuosity and addiction to constant rule fiddling changing

Will never improve until umpires are actual professionals.

This part-time thing is complete BS. Every single umpire should be a highly paid athlete with a high level of competence and understanding of the rules. Umpiring should be their full time job and they should be paid very well for it. It should be its own career - treated just like a player.

This crap about them having to work another job and then train and umpire the highest standard of AFL every weekend (sometimes multiple games because they don't have enough) is ruining the game.

Attach a high salary to it and you'll get plenty of applicants. Fit, intelligent people who dedicate their careers to learning and applying the rules get the gigs. They should be judged on performance and dropped from the squad when they make too many errors. Right now they can't drop a single umpire for failing at their job because there isn't anyone to come in and take their place.

 

5 minutes ago, Choke said:

Will never improve until umpires are actual professionals.

This part-time thing is complete BS. Every single umpire should be a highly paid athlete with a high level of competence and understanding of the rules. Umpiring should be their full time job and they should be paid very well for it. It should be its own career - treated just like a player.

This crap about them having to work another job and then train and umpire the highest standard of AFL every weekend (sometimes multiple games because they don't have enough) is ruining the game.

Attach a high salary to it and you'll get plenty of applicants. Fit, intelligent people who dedicate their careers to learning and applying the rules get the gigs. They should be judged on performance and dropped from the squad when they make too many errors. Right now they can't drop a single umpire for failing at their job because there isn't anyone to come in and take their place.

 

I'm not necessarily against the concept of full time professional umpires. But what would they do during the week when they are not officiating? I wonder whether it might be more practical to have a small pool of full-time umpires, enough so that there is at least one officiating at each match. The full-time umps could spend their days training the part-timers.

Completely agree re full time umpires. When my family from overseas comes over they cannot believe the umpires are not full time professionals. They have commented on more than one occasion that the low standard and randomness of the umpiring is the main reason they can't get into afl. To be honest it's putting me off watching it too. It is just really really bad. I actually feel sorry for the umpires. Cannot believe they have to work a full time job and do this on the side. It is an absolute joke and the Afl will continue to be an absolute joke until these people are paid to work as professionals not the amateurs they are now. 

But heaven forbid such a radical idea may get ahead of profits. The afl is a laughing stock. So sad because the game itself is actually quite good. 

What would they do during the week?

have a break for a start. I don't know how they work a full week and then have time to do umpiring on the weekend and practice at night and devote 100% to both. Something's go to give.

when at training during the week when they are not tired from having worked a job all day they could...

Review games over and over. 

And more bloody practice practice practice. You could give them footage of 200 plays a day and keep training them until they all finally get the answers correct and are CONSISTENT. Do that today and you'd probably get 20% in agreement. 

Anyway this costs money can't have that can we afl. If they make the game watchable again then more people would watch it and they would make or money. But hey I'm just a weary supporter. For now. 

Also with the Hibbard deliberate. Forgetting the fact it wasn't his fault thenball went out of bounds-why in earth he want to force the ball out when 13 points down in the last quarter of the game and the opposition has the leagues most dominant ruckman?! Just goes to show the umpires have no idea about football. Again if they were full time they could be educated with this and in many of the extra match situations they would have the time to do this could be taught and we could start to see some consistency. 

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

There's been mention Salem could be in trouble for an elbow to the head, is it for that incident?

This will be the interesting one. You can tell by the footage that Higgins does something to Salem as there's a quick, reflex movement just before Salem's contact. That would suggest it's retaliation. But retaliation to what and, more importantly, will it be aired or accepted?

 

My prediction is that all the stomach and jumper punches will be insufficient force but Salem will get a punishment. 

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Salem will cop 3 weeks down to 2  for his elbow on Higgins.

Norf will file a fraudulent doctor's report like another club we know and the MRP will rely on the report rather than the incident on it's merit.

One third the force of Thomson on Dangerfield who got off earlier in the year. Given the inconsistency of the MRP I expect Salem to be jailed for 4 years.

1 hour ago, deebug said:

You say the umps were off-side to us all day; this has been happening for years.  How is it our players get legged three times in one match and nothing happens except free kick to norf, how can you say it was our own stupidity? Why do we pay for memberships each bloody year to watch our club take this #$&* If we sit hear and say it's our own fault and keep putting up with it year in year out we might as well fold.

I want some one to go through the whole match and see what free kicks if any were ours and what free kicks norf should not have got?

Because i can tell you one thing people at the match me included have had a gut full of these bias umps and one if it keeps happening people will not bother following the Melbourne football and good 40.000 members for next year; and two why would players want to play with us if all they keep getting is smashed each week by this #$%*.

 

I dont think it was our stupidity.  I howled at the umpiring all day and it was the most atrocious performance I have seen in ages.  However, knowing that they are useless pillocks that are easily influenced (and definitely have their darlings - Brown at Norf is one of them), then we have to be SMARTER.  I couldn't believe the tripe we got and thought Norf came out and roughed us up - but I read reports that we started it.  I was surprised (it didn't look like it from where I was sitting), but if true, it was poor maggot-management.  Having a laugh with them at 3/4 time is good maggot management.  

Other teams get 3 extra players (maggots, anyway) by 'managing' the umpires better than us.  Everyone is biased, it is just how it is leveraged.

 

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

and 2 trips to players running to goal.

Bugg dumped after a mark.

Throat punch to Oliver.

Scragging Oliver at every bounce.

Numerous holding the ball decisions, including the most blatant 10 metres from our goal.

In a close game 22 -10 frees that is 5.5 per quarter to Roos to our 2.5. Huge difference in a tight game. 

Several soft frees to Roos forwards none to us.

When you can name that many incorrect decisions you have bad umpiring.

What would Scott, his brother or Eddie do if it was their club? Blast it across the media and complain to the Umpire's department.

Tom McDonald had his jumper pulled in front of goal in the first quarter in a marking contest as he went to chase the ball when it hit the ground and nothing was called. I assumed the umpire was unsighted until the camera panned out and he was right there in front of the contest.

Then Brown gets the free against Frost because he hooked his hip in a contest.

Then there was Bugg's attempt at chasing the ball after a one-on-one when his opponent fell over. His opponent grabbed his leg (possibly attempting a professional free) to stop him gaining possession and running into an open forward line and nothing was even paid. Another NM player ran in and took it away

FMD

On having professional umps, I agree in principal that it is a good idea, I quick look at the sums makes me wonder though.

For a round of footy you need 36 umpires (3 on the ground and an emergency for each game). If you pay each of these around $150,000 ($200k once super and insurance etc are calculated) then the cost is over $7million dollars per year (that is nearly a whole other team in terms of salary). You would need to pay them this sort of money to do the job. It is high pressure with a limited lifespan with little career to go on with afterwards. 

A few solutions.

Make the sponsorship of the umpires cost more to cover the cost.

Have various levels of umpires, maybe two at each game that are part time, one part time, and one 'trainee'. That may well bring in more inconsistency though.

Have umpires together every week. That will mean they get to know each other better and can be more consistent. It will also mean the clubs can prepare for what they are like as each umpire 'team' will be harder or softer on certain parts of the game. 

I hate to say it but get rid of the bounce. As I read somewhere there are very good umps in lower leagues who don't get the call up simply as they can't bounce the ball. The umps should be there for their minds, decision making abilities, and the ability to run forwards and backwards. They shouldn't need to be able to have ball skills as well. I love the bounce and the tradition of it but if it would improve the standard of umpiring then get rid of it. 

15 minutes ago, Chris said:

On having professional umps, I agree in principal that it is a good idea, I quick look at the sums makes me wonder though.

For a round of footy you need 36 umpires (3 on the ground and an emergency for each game). If you pay each of these around $150,000 ($200k once super and insurance etc are calculated) then the cost is over $7million dollars per year (that is nearly a whole other team in terms of salary). You would need to pay them this sort of money to do the job. It is high pressure with a limited lifespan with little career to go on with afterwards. 

A few solutions.

Make the sponsorship of the umpires cost more to cover the cost.

Have various levels of umpires, maybe two at each game that are part time, one part time, and one 'trainee'. That may well bring in more inconsistency though.

Have umpires together every week. That will mean they get to know each other better and can be more consistent. It will also mean the clubs can prepare for what they are like as each umpire 'team' will be harder or softer on certain parts of the game. 

I hate to say it but get rid of the bounce. As I read somewhere there are very good umps in lower leagues who don't get the call up simply as they can't bounce the ball. The umps should be there for their minds, decision making abilities, and the ability to run forwards and backwards. They shouldn't need to be able to have ball skills as well. I love the bounce and the tradition of it but if it would improve the standard of umpiring then get rid of it. 

One risk of having the same umpires together every week is that it increases the possibility of corruption. I'm not against what you are suggesting, just pointing out it produces another potential problem which would need to be managed.

22 minutes ago, Chris said:

On having professional umps, I agree in principal that it is a good idea, I quick look at the sums makes me wonder though.

For a round of footy you need 36 umpires (3 on the ground and an emergency for each game). If you pay each of these around $150,000 ($200k once super and insurance etc are calculated) then the cost is over $7million dollars per year (that is nearly a whole other team in terms of salary). You would need to pay them this sort of money to do the job. It is high pressure with a limited lifespan with little career to go on with afterwards. 

A few solutions.

Make the sponsorship of the umpires cost more to cover the cost.

Have various levels of umpires, maybe two at each game that are part time, one part time, and one 'trainee'. That may well bring in more inconsistency though.

Have umpires together every week. That will mean they get to know each other better and can be more consistent. It will also mean the clubs can prepare for what they are like as each umpire 'team' will be harder or softer on certain parts of the game. 

I hate to say it but get rid of the bounce. As I read somewhere there are very good umps in lower leagues who don't get the call up simply as they can't bounce the ball. The umps should be there for their minds, decision making abilities, and the ability to run forwards and backwards. They shouldn't need to be able to have ball skills as well. I love the bounce and the tradition of it but if it would improve the standard of umpiring then get rid of it. 

only central umpires need to be full time professional. that's 3 per game. Personally I believe 2 is enough, esp with better umps but that's jmo

24 minutes ago, Chris said:

I hate to say it but get rid of the bounce.

The bounce is stupid, it should be an even contest in the middle but a lot of the time it is heavily favoured in one ruckmens favour

Just now, Rafiki said:

The bounce is stupid, it should be an even contest in the middle but a lot of the time it is heavily favoured in one ruckmens favour

as long as they throw it up much higher. too often they throw it up too short which favours the taller ruckman because there is less time to manoeuvre and jump

Just now, daisycutter said:

as long as they throw it up much higher. too often they throw it up too short which favours the taller ruckman because there is less time to manoeuvre and jump

What was the reason they even brought in the center circle rule which killed Jeff White

Just now, Rafiki said:

What was the reason they even brought in the center circle rule which killed Jeff White

i've forgotten. think it was to minimise ruck to ruck injuries due to speed of arrival.  of course it hurt us because whitey got less of a leap which was his strength not being a big bodied guy..

They should make the bounce optional. Let the umpires that are good at it continue using it and if it dies a natural death then so be it. I have tried many times to bounce it like they do. It is an extremely difficult skill best suited for vaudeville performers like some umpires are.

12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

only central umpires need to be full time professional. that's 3 per game. Personally I believe 2 is enough, esp with better umps but that's jmo

I've only counted the 3 central umps and an emergency for each game. Maybe we could go back to two with full time umps in place. 

6 minutes ago, Rafiki said:

What was the reason they even brought in the center circle rule which killed Jeff White

Had to do with knee to knee contact causing injuries as rucks charged at each other. The circle stops them charging and reduces the knee injuries.