Angus Brayshaw Concussion Issues

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The helmet won't help with concussion, it will help with little bumps and bruises and may simply provide him with some confidence above all else.

[ManDee 7,222]

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

11 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

31 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Good to see him in a helmet and back training. Hope the club tries everything they can to get him back and playing whilst looking after his safety. He's a talented and driven kid who we invested a pick 3 in so obviously we'd love him to have a long healthy career in the red and blue!

I'd love Brayshaw in for Bugg right now... getting this kid fit and healthy is super important to our future success.

[ManDee 7,222]

9 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

Thanks Doc.

 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

18 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Thanks Doc.

 

I know a lot about this.

[daisycutter 29,743]

25 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

that is true, but i wouldn't say it does nothing for concussion. a properly fitted helmet with appropriate cushioning material should help a little.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Just now, daisycutter said:

that is true, but i wouldn't say it does nothing for concussion. a properly fitted helmet with appropriate cushioning material should help a little.

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

27 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I crashed my motorbike on the weekend, I hit ice. I dislocated my finger, tore my pants and cracked my helmet, I remember a bang but that is all. No headaches no issues, will need a new helmet.

Now I have heard and read many reports about helmets not minimizing concussion but I would never ride a motorbike or a push bike without one. Does it give me confidence? Yes. If you can slow down the deceleration of the brain then you may reduce concussion. I understand the increased risk of neck & back injuries. A risk I accept.

We have had this discussion many times and it would appear that the two sides simply disagree.

Motorbike helmet is not the same as sports helmet. The analogy isn't apples with apples. A number of years ago I came off my pushbike, cracked my head on a signpost splitting the helmet open and received concussion. Sure, I may have died without the helmet, but it didn't stop the concussion. It's just anecdotal evidence.

My understanding is that brain specialists all tend to agree about sports helmets preventing cuts, bruises and possible fractures but doing SFA to prevent concussion, apart from wearer confidence (which as others have pointed out can also work in reverse).

[ManDee 7,222]

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may NOT reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

 

Edit - I left a word out - BOLD

Edited June 6, 2017 by ManDee

[daisycutter 29,743]

39 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

you didn't read what i said

i've said all you've said many times before, but it's not accurate to say they can give zero help to concussion. appropriate padding material can reduce some of the initial deceleration forces.  by saying it can have a small effect is not claiming it can stop concussion, but it might make a small reduction in the severity of the concussion, or even avoid it in a minor head clash.

i'd certainly be looking at the new one that was referenced here previously (can't remember the name)

Edited June 6, 2017 by daisycutter

[hardtack 10,627]

5 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

I would have thought that the best plan would be to change a player's approach to the game to remove the chances of being concussed at all.  Most other players don't suffer repeated concussions, so what are they doing differently?  Even wearing a helmet that "may reduce" concussion, is not going to lessen the long term affects... I don't know for sure, but isn't there a chance that all it is doing is prolonging the players footballing career while possibly masking the longer term affects due to more lesser concussions occurring over a longer period of time; this could be just as bad as a career shortened by severe concussions .

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

appropriate padding material can reduce some of the initial deceleration forces. 

It doesn't decelerate the brain inside the skull.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Just now, Clint Bizkit said:

It doesn't decelerate the brain inside the skull.

huh? of course it does

that's not what the research claims on the new anti-concussion head band we discussed a lot a few weeks ago

[Moonshadow 17,677]

39 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Why can no one read "MAY REDUCE CONCUSSION"

Most experts say helmets cannot prevent concussion, which I accept. I am not talking about prevention but reduction. Can anyone categorically prove that some helmets may reduce concussion? I have not read that yet.

Excuse being facetious, but it's also true that if Gus grew his hair long and then got a permed afro it may also reduce just a tiny bit of concussion.

Anything may. 

If the advice was that helmets have been proven to reduce concussion, the afl would make them compulsory for all.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Moonshadow

[Biffen 12,947]

I feel I'm banging my head against a wall just reading this.

[Demon_JB 1,385]

3 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I feel I'm banging my head against a wall just reading this.

I reckon a helmet would probably help there. Maybe?

[JTR 2,856]

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.

[monoccular 17,575]

On 24/05/2017 at 5:36 PM, Roger Mellie said:

Agreed, the only thing this club is owed for is Lumumba

Maybe, but we were silly enough to take eon someone who was very obviously for all to see a complete narcissist

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The helmet stopped you from splitting your head open, it does nothing for concussion.

 

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I know a lot about this.

Clint - are you. a neurosurgeon in disguise?

8 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I feel I'm banging my head against a wall just reading this.

Post of the year, Biff.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It's not actually stopping the inertia of the brain moving within the skull which is what causes concussion.

Helmets are great for protecting your skull and for protection from scratches and cuts, but nothing for concussion. 

Look at the helmets NFL players wear and all the concussion issues they have.

Correct. 

[monoccular 17,575]

1 minute ago, JTR said:

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.

Not quite so.

A modern car well designed with a crumple zone will decelerate just that little more slowly than a rigid shelled older type "solid" car from the 1960s so concussions and whiplashes though not prevented may be reduced.

[sue 9,145]

Both side are correct in theory. But in practice, current technology helmets can only be of minor effect in the most marginal case.

It is just basic physics.  Concussion occurs because the momentum of the skull and contents is reduced to zero (or even reversed) in too short a time - a large decelleration which leads to the brain sloshing around and concussion.  Padding will indeed help spread the change in momentum over a longer time.  If the time to come to a stop is larger, the decelleration is smaller and there will be less sloshing around of the brain. 

However in practice, the problem is that existing padding materials would have to be ridiculously thick to bring the decelleration down into the 'no concussion' zone.      Imagine a player with a 3 foot surround of polystyrene beads in a bag around his head - he has all of that 3 feet and time for his head to come to a stop before it reaches the immovable object. 

But there are occasional reports of new high-tech materials which may make the padding small enough to be wearable.  No idea if the reports are reliable.  

[daisycutter 29,743]

7 minutes ago, JTR said:

I wouldn't have thought a helmet would make any difference to the deceleration on the brain inside the skull.

In much the same way as someone driving a car headon into a brick wall at 60km/h, the whiplash effect of going from 60km/h to 0km/h is not going to be any different no matter how many extra layers of protection the car has externally.

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[Gator 17,474]

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Yes he was wearing a helmet thing morning. And was kept out of any competitive drills.

He doesn't really need confidence. He needs technique training, awareness, strength and a bit of good luck. 

Really ?

I'd say he needs a lot of confidence.

[Nasher 33,617]

I was of the belief that it wouldn't help too, but whatever. Angus has access to much better advice than I do, so if he thinks this will help - even if it is purely for confidence - I'm all for it.