I'd up the offer to a mil a year over 6-7. He's a gun and a great young leader. 

25 minutes ago, Adzman said:

Gun gun gun. My only question is: Where is that 800k worth of cap space coming from??

as bill lawry says "i love him. i wanna boof him. get him up here"...

he wont leave crows at this stage of his career though. maybe next re-singing after this...

close thread for expectation sakes god nammit.

ya mum

Edited July 7, 20178 yr by mattjm

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Jeez Lever is good.

His old man is there in the Adelaide rooms tonight, Jake said dad was there with all his mates from Romsey in Victoria! Do we need to get BBO to start working on Lever to get him over the line? 

1 minute ago, Earl Hood said:

His old man is there in the Adelaide rooms tonight, Jake said dad was there with all his mates from Romsey in Victoria! Do we need to get BBO to start working on Lever to get him over the line? 

Yeah, Dad looked interesting with the hand tatts.

Whatever it takes.

10 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

If the reported offer is correct, it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar.

Especially given the fact that Lever is the same age as Oscar and has played less games than Frost.

 

This is comedy gold. I can only assume you were deliberately trying to be funny and having a subtle dig at yourself. If so then well played sir, If not, then........

Edited July 7, 20178 yr by binman

23 minutes ago, Abe said:

I'd up the offer to a mil a year over 6-7. He's a gun and a great young leader. 

800k will be about right for a quality KPD like Lever.

He will stay or go, but money won't be the driver. It will be part of the story.

If he goes I would think we are in a good position, he knows we wanted him at draft time and he knows we have a future.

22 disposals, 11 marks, 11 spoils, 7 rebound 50s. Another great game tonight. Really showing leadership and organising the back half while cutting off anything that was remotely near him.

Doubt he will leave the Crows. Looked really happy in the rooms and his teammates love him. That said, he's a genuine gun and we should offer whatever we can to get him!

He was on Adelaide radio during the week and indications would think he will stay in Adelaide. It wouldn't surprise if his manager is getting Melbourne Journos to talk him up to increase his $$$$.

On 7/6/2017 at 8:32 AM, ChaserJ said:

This article suggests that we've put forward a similar offer:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-06/jake-wants-to-be-at-the-club-we-want-jake

After doing this armchair-expert caper for while you begin to get a pretty good sense of who is leaving and staying through the media comments. This is a tough one, but I think there are some hints he's on the move.

My guess; Adelaide are trying to sweet-talk him for taking unders or current market, 'we will negotiate the appropriate deal', to reserve some cash for a potential post-season midfield splash if something pops up. My opinion: forget the sweet-talk, and send Jake King 'round to get him to the Dees on the coin he deserves.

Strategically, my tune is also changing, and I would be prepared for us now to sell a chunk of the farm for a couple of key acquisitions, namely Lever and Kelly (the latter with a sub-committee set-up to attract him for slight unders against success , camaraderie and culture as to what's been reported offered from North et al.).

We need to guarantee tangible success now (as best we can) for the general sustained-success group-wage-reduction plan to come to fruition, and we only have a short window before GWS own the comp - to first achieve success, and to construct an actively competitive list thereafter.

I now don't think that a couple of wage outliers will spoil the broth if signed to four/five year big-bucks contracts now, (with a lot of our key keys not coming up again until 2019/20). And if we lose some decent talent looking for dollars along the way, we will be duly compensated, and still better off to cover it with KPs Lever and Kelly in place.

 

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

After doing this armchair-expert caper for while you begin to get a pretty good sense of who is leaving and staying through the media comments. This is a tough one, but I think there are some hints he's on the move.

My guess; Adelaide are trying to sweet-talk him for taking unders or current market, 'we will negotiate the appropriate deal', to reserve some cash for a potential post-season midfield splash if something pops up. My opinion: forget the sweet-talk, and send Jake King 'round to get him to the Dees on the coin he deserves.

Strategically, my tune is also changing, and I would be prepared for us now to sell a chunk of the farm for a couple of key acquisitions, namely Lever and Kelly (the latter with a sub-committee set-up to attract him for slight unders against success , camaraderie and culture as to what's been reported offered from North et al.).

We need to guarantee tangible success now (as best we can) for the general sustained-success group-wage-reduction plan to come to fruition, and we only have a short window before GWS own the comp - to first achieve success, and to construct an actively competitive list thereafter.

I now don't think that a couple of wage outliers will spoil the broth if signed to four/five year big-bucks contracts now, (with a lot of our key keys not coming up again until 2019/20). And if we lose some decent talent looking for dollars along the way, we will be duly compensated, and still better off to cover it with KPs Lever and Kelly in place.

 

Yes that's all well and good, but can you run me by your trade scenarios that see us gaining those 2 stars?

Beat the Crows in Darwin next week and he'll have seen twice this year the quality of team he could be playing with.

10 hours ago, binman said:

This is comedy gold. I can only assume you were deliberately trying to be funny and having a subtle dig at yourself. If so then well played sir, If not, then........

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about.

My point was pretty clear cut.

Would be great to get him in a Dee Jumper. Perhaps another Mac could go forward,nothing like a Macattack. Still we need a quality mid,is Wines available?

7 hours ago, Skuit said:

After doing this armchair-expert caper for while you begin to get a pretty good sense of who is leaving and staying through the media comments. This is a tough one, but I think there are some hints he's on the move.

My guess; Adelaide are trying to sweet-talk him for taking unders or current market, 'we will negotiate the appropriate deal', to reserve some cash for a potential post-season midfield splash if something pops up. My opinion: forget the sweet-talk, and send Jake King 'round to get him to the Dees on the coin he deserves.

Strategically, my tune is also changing, and I would be prepared for us now to sell a chunk of the farm for a couple of key acquisitions, namely Lever and Kelly (the latter with a sub-committee set-up to attract him for slight unders against success , camaraderie and culture as to what's been reported offered from North et al.).

We need to guarantee tangible success now (as best we can) for the general sustained-success group-wage-reduction plan to come to fruition, and we only have a short window before GWS own the comp - to first achieve success, and to construct an actively competitive list thereafter.

I now don't think that a couple of wage outliers will spoil the broth if signed to four/five year big-bucks contracts now, (with a lot of our key keys not coming up again until 2019/20). And if we lose some decent talent looking for dollars along the way, we will be duly compensated, and still better off to cover it with KPs Lever and Kelly in place.

 

As your position is shifting so is mine.  Not about Lever, but about who perhaps is gettable and can provide some outside pace and be that connector we're presently missing.

I think Lever is perfect for us in that he is going to be the best key defender in the competition for a decade.  I worry about the NQR McDonalds and the NQR Frost.  All three have some great attributes, and Oscar has come on in leaps and bounds, but the opportunity to get a player like Lever doesn't come along often.

But where I've shifted is on Kelly.  As good as he's going to be I don't see how we can get both he and Lever, such is the expense.  My compromise is Zac Jones and I know I'm late to the party.  It's taken longer for me to warm to him than others.  Not being the most sentimental supporter I suspect my resistance was borne out of a desire to make good decisions and not allow any family connection to influence good policy.  But in doing so I've probably marked him harder than I should.  I still think he has plenty to work on, but his performance last week reinforced the view he's exactly the type we need running the lines.  And I'm guessing he'll probably cost approx. $300-400K pa less than Kelly.  So it's a more doable solution for a result that won't be the same, but still very good.

They could obviously both resist moves back to Melbourne, however, Lever has recently discussed it as being a "life decision" on 5AA.  the fact he's put off re-signing gives some hope.  Jones would know that if he ever wants to play with his Brother he must come back next year.  If he commits to the Swans for another 3 years the time will have probably passed.  The general consensus is that he'll probably stay at the Swans, but once again, the fact he hasn't re-signed gives hope.  He's a Mornington Peninsula boy who's never known Sydney and he's close to Nathan, so I think there must be some pull to come back home.  Who knows if it's enough.

Lever and Jones in the off-season would allow us to seriously challenge in 2017.

 

5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about.

My point was pretty clear cut.

We don't always see eye to eye, but I read Binman's post a couple of times and could only conclude he quoted the wrong poster.  It made no sense whatsoever.

Lever was so impressive last night. His marking is a real highlight and it's hard to find a negative. Unfortunately I can't see him leaving the Crows.

Haven't mentioned this but Lever's brother has been playing in the Crows SANFL development team this year I'm pretty sure.

I don't really know what that means but it may work against the thought of a move south. 

It also may not.

Dees.

50 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about.

My point was pretty clear cut.

Ok my wit was more witless than witty.

My point was that you cannot seriously suggest that if the $800k offer on the table is correct 'it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar'. Surely you are joking? Its clear? That assertion is completely without logic. Clear to you becasue its suits your confirmation bias.

If not joking then you are completely clutching at straws about OMac, perhaps because your assessment of him as not at AFL standard has been proven categorically wrong. I can't be bothered going back and find quotes but you have made it abundantly clear you don't rate OMac. Fine. You're welcome to your opinion. 

But to suggest going after Lever is an indication of how the club rates Omac is just silly. The club has made it crystal clear how highly they rate OMac. He was in the best 22 at the start of the year when we had all of our players fit - after being in the side all last year. He was dropped for 1 (2?) game and since has not look like being dropped. 

Was it you that said he was only in the side because of injuries to Gawn and Hogan and he would be dropped as soon they were back? If not no doubt you agreed. Well that has been proven to be completely wrong.We are pushing for top 4 and Omac is best 18 lock. Do you at least acknowledge that now?

The club rate OMac incredibly highly. Of that there is no question. You don't, but you simply cannot mount a credible argument the club don't. The evidence is compelling that the club rate him. Going after Lever is no reflection on how they rate OMac, or Frost for that matter.

Lever is a total gun. Of course they want him. I do too. And have said as much. I see no issue in him coming into the side and Omac, TMac and Frost all playing in the same side. I doubt the club do either.

The funny thing is if we did get him you'll be spending the pre season writing OMac off and saying there is no way both him, Frost and Lever can can be in the side. Until they all line up together round one when you will find some other reason to criticise Omac.

Unlike you i rate Omac very highly and always have done. In the last few games we are starting to see why i rate him so highly. In terms of my assessment i like that fact that the evidence suggests the highly paid MFC coaching staff who have been in footy all their lives share my assessment. 

Edited July 8, 20178 yr by binman

There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever.

My guess is that Frost would be traded.  Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left.  Splitting up the brothers is also problematic.

This isn't to say I don't rate Frost's speed, but he's not as good a defender as Tom and is more easily replaceable.  Joel Smith for one is as fast as Frost and at 191cm he's only 3cms shorter than Frost, who doesn't play overly tall anyway.

Frost doesn't have to be involved in a Lever trade, but he could be involved to secure Jones.  Frost has lived in Sydney once when he was with GWS and his line breaking speed on the SCG would be a weapon.  Grundy is getting on (31), Laidlaw no longer gets a game and is short at 190cm, Michael Talia is finished, and Allir Allir has stalled.  Melican looks a player, but that's about it in the key position defender stakes.  The Swans are crying out for another tall defender.  

Frost has Leverage.

6 minutes ago, ProDee said:

There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever.

My guess is that Frost would be traded.  Oscar is developing well and at 197cms he has a tonne of physical development left.  Splitting up the brothers is also problematic.

This isn't to say I don't rate Frost's speed, but he's not as good a defender as Tom and is more easily replaceable.  Joel Smith for one is as fast as Frost and at 191cm he's only 3cms shorter than Frost, who doesn't play overly tall anyway.

Frost doesn't have to be involved in a Lever trade, but he could be involved to secure Jones.  Frost has lived in Sydney once when he was with GWS and his line breaking speed on the SCG would be a weapon.  Grundy is getting on (31), Laidlaw no longer gets a game and is short at 190cm, Michael Talia is finished, and Allir Allir has stalled.  Melican looks a player, but that's about it in the key position defender stakes.  The Swans are crying out for another tall defender.  

Frost has Leverage.

Some good points, particularly Smith's capacity to offer the speed and versatility of Frost. But i would hate to see Frost go. I think he has huge upside (which of course gives him some trade value) and i really like his athleticism. Am i right in thinking he was basketballer that came to footy quite late?

Lever is very athletic, as is smith and frost and all have the ability to cover smaller players as well as tall ones, (Omac and TMac less so) - a very handy skill in with the strong zone we favour down back. Handy also to have 190 plus athletic types running of the half back line at centre square restarts. It would be interesting to see if they could all play together. 

With Smith i can see him going into the midfield at some stage. 

2 minutes ago, binman said:

i would hate to see Frost go

I know, which is why he has value.

No point stockpiling what you have an abundance of.

If it looked like we were Lever's preferred club should he decide he wants to shift back to Victoria then all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith is at least one too many and potentially two.  And I don't see the McDonalds being split up.

So what is your solution if we were a chance to secure Lever ? 

I doubt we will make it happen however, if we did everyone is assuming all interest in Lever is as a KPD. His skill set could also see him become a highly damaging midfielder in the Fyfe mould or maybe more so just as an attacking half back. I think this is more likely as there is not much exposed evidence of his ability playing against the best or even second best KPFs. With T-Mac showing current ability to play the forward/ruck role which will be hard to fill short term we may not be as stacked with a backline of O-Mac, Frost and Lever as we think. We are also assuming all stay fit and healthy and in form. 

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I know, which is why he has value.

No point stockpiling what you have an abundance of.

If it looked like we were Lever's preferred club should he decide he wants to shift back to Victoria then all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith is at least one too many and potentially two.  And I don't see the McDonalds being split up.

So what is your solution if we were a chance to secure Lever ? 

As i said you make a good point about Frost, particularly about his potential trade value. But my solution would be to keep Frost. Partly because i am not totally convinced you can't have all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith at the club and perhaps even in the same side, particularly if Smith goes to the midfield which i suspect he might.

Keep in mind Lewis and Vince have both been playing off the HB and both will finish soon so that frees up some spots down back. Yes i know Lever, Frost and Smith are tall but they are so athletic that i reckon they can play as running half back flankers rather than just as key position players.And i wonder if TMac might end up as an old fashioned swing man given how natural he has started looking as a forward?

But i guess the main reason my solution would be to keep Frost is i hate it when any player is forced out of the club. Unless they are a peanut. 

10 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I doubt we will make it happen however, if we did everyone is assuming all interest in Lever is as a KPD. His skill set could also see him become a highly damaging midfielder in the Fyfe mould or maybe more so just as an attacking half back. I think this is more likely as there is not much exposed evidence of his ability playing against the best or even second best KPFs. With T-Mac showing current ability to play the forward/ruck role which will be hard to fill short term we may not be as stacked with a backline of O-Mac, Frost and Lever as we think. We are also assuming all stay fit and healthy and in form. 

Tom isn't going to be a key forward long-term.  He's done OK, but he's not a natural forward and will revert to defence in 2018 and beyond.

Lever is still physically developing as a 21 year old defender, but he's 195cms.  He's brilliant at intercept marking and his best position is in defence.  He'd be the general in defence, wherever he plays, for a decade.  Trying to turn him into a mid isn't going to happen.

Yes, injuries occur, but assuming they're all fit and firing they're not all going to be in the best 22.  If one has very good value and could be used in a trade you do the deal to get a player like Lever.

If there's a possibility to land both he and Jones something has to fall from the tree.  Adelaide and Sydney will want very good compensation, so what would you propose ?

Frost would go a long way to securing Jones, which allows first round pick/s to secure Lever.

39 minutes ago, ProDee said:

There is, of course, the question of what to do with the McDonalds and Frost if we were lucky enough to recruit Lever.

Perhaps Tom McDonald would play the Blicavs big-bodied midfielder role or the hard running, strong marking winger role Riewoldt has played over the past few years.  He's got the tank, and certainly his kicking isn't as much of a liability if they get him up the ground.

Super impressive game from Lever last night.  He just makes the right decisions every time, and executes perfectly almost every time.  He's like a taller, 21 year old version of Hibberd. 

What a pity Trengove's foot didn't heal and we couldn't get that pick 12.  Encouraging that Taylor rated him so damn highly.