Changes for Round 2 v Carlton

[Nasher 33,613]

33 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Pedders in for Smith.

Not sure who for Vince. Hibberd would've been perfect because he can kick. Maybe someone from left field.

Pedersen for me is a hot standby forward for if Weideman struggles or tires. I'd prefer him to have VFL form as a forward than play position ping pong with him in the seniors.

I really don't think the medium defender we have lost creates a vacancy that urgently needs filling. It's not like ruck or a KP whereby anyone semi-capable is better than no one - we proved this week that we can get by with improvising in that space.

[Akum 2,660]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

If anyone is in any doubt that OMac is a weak link Goodwin himself explained how the Aints tried to isolate him at every opportunity. Whoever was on him would run back towards goals to put one on one pressure on Oscar.

expect it to happen more often if he plays. He needs another Demon to 'babysit' him in the backline which is what brother Tom did for much of the game. 

OMac wasn't "isolated" against just anyone - he was "isolated" on one of the best one-on-one tall forwards of all time. Not many coaches in the AFL would be comfortable about their 2nd-year defender being isolated on Nick Riewoldt, who has built his stellar career out of getting "isolated" one-on-one with some of the very best defenders of all time and, at times, making mincemeat out of them.

The whole aim of a zone defence is that you DON'T get defenders isolated in one-on-ones. If you do, repeatedly, it means the structure has broken down, and that was the problem. These words from Goody were in the context of how well the defence as a unit did after quarter time to hold their structure and avoid getting "isolated".

[mauriesy 7,287]

On 3/27/2017 at 0:00 PM, stevethemanjordan said:

That's my favourite stat ever.

Honestly. What is that telling us? That the opposition are entering our forward 50 an awful lot under little pressure meaning Oscar will be subject to more contests?

I really don't care for much of what the prospectus says because it discounts so many factors/variables that contribute to these isolated stats.

So when the stats don't suit an argument, throw out the stats?

[daisycutter 29,613]

If the coaches were thinking of playing declan in the zone defence why would they play him in the fwd line in last saturday's vfl practice match?

pretty obvious that at this time they are not considering him for a defensive position

omac stays in. he is (at the moment) goody's zac dawson

[Akum 2,660]

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

Garlett had 4 free kicks against but only 1 recorded clanger, so I don't believe that this is correct. 

I just checked and you read the columns wrong. Garlett had 4 tackles (the next column) and 0 frees against.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,753]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

He's bigger and stronger than OMac and IMO couldn't be much worse. OMac looks devoid of confidence to me and needs time at Casey to refresh and reset.

It seems counter-intuitive to me that to fix a player's "confidence" you'd do the one thing that would damage it more...drop him from the side. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but when clubs do it I hope they realise that it may well exacerbate the problem in the first instance.

[mo64 5,874]

56 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

If the coaches were thinking of playing declan in the zone defence why would they play him in the fwd line in last saturday's vfl practice match?

pretty obvious that at this time they are not considering him for a defensive position

omac stays in. he is (at the moment) goody's zac dawson

The Zac Dawson/Nathan Brown role in the modern game is redundant. There are no longer stay at home gorilla full forwards. It's all about constant leading and applying forwardline pressure for the modern day forwards. So the slow lumbering fullbacks like Dawson and Brown, who don't have any other tricks to their bow, will be weeded out of the game.

[Skuit 10,031]

So I've convinced myself that Weideman should go down back and take Smith's spot (Saty, can you mention it to Goody for me?). He's not been quite clunking them up front but he's got the height, athleticism, and timing to meet the ball at it's highest point and should be able to effect a decent spoil. And he's a neat enough kick. It's basically rookie for rookie. And it may result in Weiderman vs. Weitering in Bizarro-World. Pedo can come into the forward line, or give Hullet a run as the third tall. Tyson/Bugg/Harmes in for Vince depending on fitness. 

[mo64 5,874]

1 hour ago, Akum said:

I just checked and you read the columns wrong. Garlett had 4 tackles (the next column) and 0 frees against.

Yeah, my bad. It was Melksham underneath Garlett who had 4 frees against. 

[daisycutter 29,613]

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

The Zac Dawson/Nathan Brown role in the modern game is redundant. There are no longer stay at home gorilla full forwards. It's all about constant leading and applying forwardline pressure for the modern day forwards. So the slow lumbering fullbacks like Dawson and Brown, who don't have any other tricks to their bow, will be weeded out of the game.

the zac dawson comment had nothing to do with his role, merely that the coaches are (currently) sticking with him through thick and thin. I don't have a problem with this.

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

the zac dawson comment had nothing to do with his role, merely that the coaches are (currently) sticking with him through thick and thin. I don't have a problem with this.

I've enjoyed the game about 3 times now.  I don't think Oscar is as "thin" as everyone is making out.

He plays the defensive role pretty well and impacts a lot of contests. He also runs well and creates.  Yes, he makes mistakes but I saw Jordan Lewis stuff up regularly on Sunday.

Anyway we'll have this conversation every week this year I'd imagine, pity there isn't an ignore button for this.

[mo64 5,874]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

the zac dawson comment had nothing to do with his role, merely that the coaches are (currently) sticking with him through thick and thin. I don't have a problem with this.

Wow, you really think that Ross Lyon should still be sticking with Zac Dawson? It wasn't a problem a few ago, when Dawson played his role well. 

It seems that the same posters who defended Garland to the hilt are now defending O Mac, and vice versa. I don't have a problem playing O Mac due to lack of manpower due to injuries, but you can't convince me that he is AFL standard at the moment.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

9 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I've enjoyed the game about 3 times now.  I don't think Oscar is as "thin" as everyone is making out.

He plays the defensive role pretty well and impacts a lot of contests. He also runs well and creates.  Yes, he makes mistakes but I saw Jordan Lewis stuff up regularly on Sunday.

Anyway we'll have this conversation every week this year I'd imagine, pity there isn't an ignore button for this.

Just scroll past a post you don't like.

That action is called ignoring. 

Simples.

[jnrmac 20,059]

35 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

It seems counter-intuitive to me that to fix a player's "confidence" you'd do the one thing that would damage it more...drop him from the side. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but when clubs do it I hope they realise that it may well exacerbate the problem in the first instance.

Worked for Watts up to a point. It's not uncommon at all LDC.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Just now, mo64 said:

Wow, you really think that Ross Lyon should still be sticking with Zac Dawson? It wasn't a problem a few ago, when Dawson played his role well. 

It seems that the same posters who defended Garland to the hilt are now defending O Mac, and vice versa. I don't have a problem playing O Mac due to lack of manpower due to injuries, but you can't convince me that he is AFL standard at the moment.

where did i say lyon should be sticking to zac dawson. i made no comment either way. I do think there were plenty of times when dawson should have been dropped.

anyway dawson is different in that he is not a young developing player so the reasons for lyon sticking fat with him must be different

also don't have a problem playing omac given our position. as to whether he is afl standard yet is very subjective. he only turned 21 a couple of weeks ago and tall kpp's take longer to develop normally. his development is obviously being accelerated by giving him game time because we have limited options for alternate kpd's

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Spot on. There is absolutely no chance omac will be dropped. What does that tell you? It tells me Goodwin does not share the view of some DL posters about his ability and form.  

 

For whatever reason, you're choosing to ignore the FACT that we have little alternative. Who out of our healthy list is challenging for that second key defender role?

Nobody is your answer. 

You're right only in that Goody will continue to play Oscar at present regardless of the fact that he is underperforming because of what I have previously said. Unless of course he plays as he did on the weekend for the next few weeks, in which case Goody and the FD may find that they have no choice but to drop him.

I don't understand why it's so hard for some supporters to see that positionally speaking, some players are given more leniency in regards to game-day performance simply because there is a lack of depth in that particular line. (Backline in this case).

This is exactly what we're seeing atm. We saw it a few years ago with our midfield. Players were getting games because of a lack of depth and talent. And now we're seeing it with our key backs. 

Why is it so difficult to see this?

 

[TickleMeTyson 137]

O'Mac had a few shaky moments early against the Saints but improved as the game unfolded, he isn't a ragdoll anymore and he tries hard. Still liable to turn the ball over on occasion, but he has all the attributes (like his brother) to become a star key defender. People seem to forget we are still very much in a development phase, winning is a great side-effect of good development, Oscar will get there. Trust in the process, key backs take a while to develop (unless you're Weitering).

It is possible with the Vince suspension Goody will throw Lewis back with Tyson coming in as an inside mid. As for a Smith replacement, potentially Wagner or Frost I'd guess, depending on fitness. 

[Gator 17,332]

4 hours ago, A F said:

I think in Omac's first quarter, where he was often isolated, it's fair to say he struggled, but after quarter time, it was only his lack polish that could be bemoaned. He dropped far too many simple uncontested chest marks, but as I've noted a couple of times and as you note RABR, his game wasnt drop worthy, nor will it be with our injuries.

He dropped two that I remember, Gawn dropped one, Hunt dropped one.  There may have been more.  Infuriating.

[DeeSpencer 25,680]

Any love for Patty McKenna on a half back flank?

He's a lovely kick. Doesn't seem to have any huge deficiencies in his game, probably lacks a standout attribute but that's ok if he's just coming in to do a role.

Anyone know if he's done much at Casey?

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,753]

54 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Worked for Watts up to a point. It's not uncommon at all LDC.

I was probably a bit unclear. I wasn't saying it shouldn't happen, only that when it happens clubs should handle the player carefully so that the damage to the confidence from being dropped doesn't make things worse. It requires that clubs understand each of their players psychological strengths and weaknesses as much as they understand their physical ones. 

[What 18,810]

O Mac wont be dropped this week, but if he continues to struggle he will go to Casey and theres nothing wrong with that, hes a young KPD after all.

Id prefer Sam Frost as the other tall back next to T Mac, and with Hibberd and Wagner returning soon in I can see O Mac out of the side in a month from now unless he really comes on.

 

[Satyriconhome 10,871]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Wow, you really think that Ross Lyon should still be sticking with Zac Dawson? It wasn't a problem a few ago, when Dawson played his role well. 

It seems that the same posters who defended Garland to the hilt are now defending O Mac, and vice versa. I don't have a problem playing O Mac due to lack of manpower due to injuries, but you can't convince me that he is AFL standard at the moment.

 

Interestingly Simon Goodwin seems to think Omac is AFL standard, so does Macca, let me think, those 2 or your opinion on Omac

[sisso 2,580]

Hmmmm, Hogan didn't train today, hopefully he is ok for Sunday

[What 18,810]

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Interestingly Simon Goodwin seems to think Omac is AFL standard, so does Macca, let me think, those 2 or your opinion on Omac

Doesnt mean he needs to be in the side right now. You can be AFL standard and doing your apprenticeship in the VFL.

 

[Gator 17,332]

43 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Any love for Patty McKenna on a half back flank?

He's a lovely kick. Doesn't seem to have any huge deficiencies in his game, probably lacks a standout attribute but that's ok if he's just coming in to do a role.

Anyone know if he's done much at Casey?

 

I doubt most on here have seen enough of him to have an informed opinion.