1 minute ago, Redleg said:

First welcome to the "I love Oliver " club. You have joined a number of us who joined the club after his first game with us. 

I haven't just joined.

11 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Greg Wells imo is the best mid we've had since Barassi and better than Todd Viney, etc.  

And as I mentioned earlier, I don't consider Flower a mid in the true sense of the word, as wingers weren't really mids in those days.

Not sure about Robbie. He played inside and outside and ground coverage was huge. Moved in an arc from defence to attack. He literally bobbed up everywhere although it is true he was not always crumbling at the feet of the ruckman at centre bounce

2 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Not sure about Robbie. He played inside and outside and ground coverage was huge. Moved in an arc from defence to attack. He literally bobbed up everywhere although it is true he was not always crumbling at the feet of the ruckman at centre bounce

I don't think it's fair on the true wingers from those days to be compared to the mids from those days or the mids from today.  Their possession numbers won't be (aren't) as high and they'll be marked down when they shouldn't.  Mids spent most of their time following the ball all over the ground and when they didn't they rested forward and kicked tonnes of goals.

You can please yourself, of course, but when I judge today's mids I don't include Flower in those comparisons, because in my view it's not fair on him.  He is though, in my view, the greatest wingman whoever lived. 

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I don't think it's fair on the true wingers from those days to be compared to the mids from those days or the mids from today.  Their possession numbers won't be (aren't) as high and they'll be marked down when they shouldn't.  Mids spent most of their time following the ball all over the ground and when they didn't they rested forward and kicked tonnes of goals.

You can please yourself, of course, but when I judge today's mids I don't include Flower in those comparisons, because in my view it's not fair on him.  He is though, in my view, the greatest wingman whoever lived. 

they also weren't called mids in those days, nor were they inside or outside.

27 minutes ago, ProDee said:

 

You can please yourself, of course, but when I judge today's mids I don't include Flower in those comparisons, because in my view it's not fair on him.  He is though, in my view, the greatest wingman whoever lived. 

And so say all of us. 

RIP Robbie, gone too soon, but never forgotten, by those who knew him,or simply loved watching him play the game, like no other before or since. 

For many years he was nearly the only reason I went to see the Dees play, when winning was more a fluke than an expectation.

He did things on the footy field that with his skinny frame and poor eyesight he had no right to.  

A great footballer and an equally great guy.  

 

On 28/03/2017 at 11:45 AM, Skuit said:

Barry Prenders could have moulded a better list with the number of free hits that SOS had. Look closely at the actual strike rate.

Just like Gold Coast eh?  SOS gets a lot of stick but GWS are flag favourites and GCS are struggling.  I think his list management has been pretty good.

As posted earlier he hasn't sold the farm for the GWS "rejects" and they are better and younger options than the rubbish he started with.

Lets see where they are in 5 years.  I think we know it's a long haul.

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

I don't think it's fair on the true wingers from those days to be compared to the mids from those days or the mids from today.  Their possession numbers won't be (aren't) as high and they'll be marked down when they shouldn't.  Mids spent most of their time following the ball all over the ground and when they didn't they rested forward and kicked tonnes of goals.

You can please yourself, of course, but when I judge today's mids I don't include Flower in those comparisons, because in my view it's not fair on him.  He is though, in my view, the greatest wingman whoever lived. 

Nicely argued.

3 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

Just like Gold Coast eh?  SOS gets a lot of stick but GWS are flag favourites and GCS are struggling.  I think his list management has been pretty good.

As posted earlier he hasn't sold the farm for the GWS "rejects" and they are better and younger options than the rubbish he started with.

Lets see where they are in 5 years.  I think we know it's a long haul.

Hang on though, 55. Gold Coast had a good list but a putrid culture. Now O'Meara, Bennell and Prestia have left, they look ordinary.

1 hour ago, A F said:

Hang on though, 55. Gold Coast had a good list but a putrid culture. Now O'Meara, Bennell and Prestia have left, they look ordinary.

GWS also had more concessions than the Gold Coast so the comparison isn't quite accurate. For starters they had two years of the "mini draft" that netted us Hogan and them additional top draft picks 

57 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

GWS also had more concessions than the Gold Coast so the comparison isn't quite accurate. For starters they had two years of the "mini draft" that netted us Hogan and them additional top draft picks 

Yep, good point, mate. So basically, SOS is still an ordinary recruiter whose terrible record flies under the radar a bit.

9 hours ago, A F said:

Hang on though, 55. Gold Coast had a good list but a putrid culture. Now O'Meara, Bennell and Prestia have left, they look ordinary.

Cultural issues and player retention failure originating from poor list management.

GWS have not experienced this.

Edited March 30, 20178 yr by Fifty-5

On 28/03/2017 at 4:27 PM, Demons1858 said:

Must admit I haven't gone through it in detail but I can't recall any major stuff ups that cost them anything significant under SOS. Happy for you to enlighten by you Skuit? Note that I'm not looked for example of players traded in that basically cost them nothing to recruit and helped pair back the list to bottom out

Look at their 2012 draft.

16 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

 Thank you for bringing that thought into the conversation, always nice to remember Eddie McGuire is still miserable and only going to get sadder.

I don't think Collingwood or Carlton have made much progress on their lists for quite a few years now. Between them, all they seem to have done is keep on feeding the GWS beast.

Carlton keeps bringing in bundles of semi-adequate or 'might be handy' players without much real quality being added. They have lost more 'sure best 22' players in trade in the last five years than they've gained. The deficit from losing Eddie Betts alone hasn't been covered. There's been a few good draft picks, like Cripps and Weitering, but at the moment the best they can hope for is the Richmond situation of loitering around the middle of the table, with the same 10 players getting all the spots in the best and fairest every year for a decade.

Collingwood have grabbed Howe, Greenwood, Dunn, White, Mayne and Wells in trade or free agency, because obviously the secret to sustained success is to bring in more of the older non-leaders with no big game credentials. Interestingly, all their recruiting under the age of 26 has been from GWS. Adams, Treloar, Hosking-Elliot. And they probably paid 'overs' for all three, even if the first two have been core players since arriving. Two first round picks for Adam Treloar, and then Heath Shaw for Taylor Adams.

Meanwhile, Melbourne have managed a total list rebuild. As for our trading - I don't see a lot of overs, and most importantly, we didn't move ourselves out of any top-end draft positions.

Bugg - acquired along with a pick upgrade from 10 to 7, in exchange for a third and fourth round pick.

Kennedy - A complex multi-club deal, our share was "Melbourne received Kennedy and picks No.29 and 50 and gave up Howe and Toumpas "

Frost - traded from Greater Western Sydney to Melbourne in exchange for pick 23, with the Giants sending picks No.40 (Nibbler) and No.53 (O.Mc) back to the Demons.

Garlett - Picks 61 and 79. Haaa ha ha.

We'll have to wait and see how Melksham (pick 25), Hibberd (pick 29) and Lewis (pick ha ha bite me Hawthorn) turn out.

 

Tell you what, all these trades go direct back to the Taylor stamp, the total absence of draft picks from 10-39. He must really hate that range.

Great post.

While Taylor has been an integral part of the list rebuild (obviously), I expect much of the terrific list management and trading in recent times has been due to the effectiveness of Josh Mahoney and Todd Viney.

Taylor has then used those picks very, very well.

 

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

Cultural issues and player retention failure originating from poor list management.

GWS have not experienced this.

If that's the case, how do you explain GWS losing their best mid in Treloar? Is that a sign of poor list management? 

Also "good recruitment" could actually be a result of good development..?

Perhaps it's the arrival of Roos, Macca and Goodwin that is the reason Taylor looks like a genius? 

1 hour ago, PaulRB said:

Also "good recruitment" could actually be a result of good development..?

Perhaps it's the arrival of Roos, Macca and Goodwin that is the reason Taylor looks like a genius? 

IMO it's a little bit of all the parts that makes the vehicle move forward.

19 hours ago, ProDee said:

 

And while there was a time I wanted to hunt Prendergast down he's done what virtually no other recruiter before him had, he recruited Gawn, who is a star of the game and should end his career as one of this club's greats.

 

And Hogan

 

But Predergast still needs to be hung 

4 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Look at their 2012 draft.

GWS strike rate at the draft under SOS was poor. You would hate to think if they were even above average at drafting. Their concessions and ongoing academy picks are stunningly excessive.

4 hours ago, Jaded said:

And Hogan

 

But Predergast still needs to be hung 

He left in January 2012 and had no part in recruiting Hogan.

Todd Viney can lay claim to Hogan.  And me, of course.

*Hanged*

Edited March 31, 20178 yr by ProDee

20 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm going to make a massive call - Clayton Oliver will be our best midfielder since Ron Barassi (note Flower was a wingman in a very different era, so he's not included in my deliberations).  When you work through it it's actually not such a big call, it's a logical call to anyone who's seen him play and is familiar with our lack of stars over the last 50 years.

He's unquestionably Jason Taylor's best pick.  To be pick 4 when you fail to make your U18 state team in the year you're drafted is incredible intuition and judgement by those that recruited you.  The deal done to orchestrate two picks in the top 10 and make certain of the selection was just as brilliant, as it was the first time a deal of that nature had been done.  We set the standard for other clubs to follow under the new points system.

I'd say Hunt was his next stroke of genius in a long line of really solid or great decisions.

And while there was a time I wanted to hunt Prendergast down he's done what virtually no other recruiter before him had, he recruited Gawn, who is a star of the game and should end his career as one of this club's greats.

 

Jake Niall on RSN radio this week said Oliver could be the best player melb has ever drafted and its hard not to agree with him. Its not a hall of fame list he has to beat.

3 hours ago, A F said:

If that's the case, how do you explain GWS losing their best mid in Treloar? Is that a sign of poor list management? 

I wonder how he is feeling about his move now..... ha ha ha.

watch this highlight reel again. 

He has the right attitude

Clayton could easily win Multiple Brownlows if he stays on the park. 

Not that i give a rats about the Brownlow these days

i want Premiership Cups

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

watch this highlight reel again. 

He has the right attitude

Clayton could easily win Multiple Brownlows if he stays on the park. 

Not that i give a rats about the Brownlow these days

i want Premiership Cups

As soon as I saw his highlights I wanted him, his body shape has changed slightly however!

28 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

As soon as I saw his highlights I wanted him, his body shape has changed slightly however!

I agree with you mate. He was always going to play this way

i admit i felt the same way about Tappy. 

But Clayton is the real deal. 

He will still play the same late in the last quarter

Oliver, Game 1.