I think Watts is terrific, just great, the best. I think he has been training well, better than anyone, Goodwin doesn't know, he tells lies, all lies. Goodwin tells so many lies he makes Hillary look honest, so dishonest, not like Watts, Watts is honest, hes more honest than anyone, almost more honest than me. Now it seems some people have been saying some bad things about Watts, all lies, fake, fake news. The forums get all the facts, not the fake facts, the real ones, they take these facts and make fake news, all fake, even Demonland had a topic about Watts that wasn't about Watts, see fake, liars at Demonland, how can you have a topic about Watts without it being about Watts, that is what these forums do, all lies, alternative facts.....disgusting.  

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Goodwin is going to cop it big time from us and the media if the following events happen:

• We lose to St Kilda
• Our forward line is dysfunctional
• Watts is running around in some meaningless minor league scratch match
• Weideman gets 3 possessions and 0 marks
• Vandenberg has a disposal efficiency that matches his jumper number 

I fear the last 2 may occur if things go south and Watts misses the match.

This is my thinking on it as well.

If Goodwin doesn't pick him, he would damn sure want to win the match having decided to leave out the fit and ready second ranked goal kicker from last season. 

It's just strange. The guy hasn't played a game since last year. He had a good year, kicked roughly 40 goals, was probably our best forward overall for the season, and yet somehow the club has taken away any positivity from that hard work and success and we're left with all this media negativity and these threads amongst supporters. I think they've managed the situation poorly, regardless of the outcome now, so whatever's happens happens I guess. Ugh.

I expect he will, but I'm more interested in where. Even Hogan is taking a run through the midfield in the pre-season games.

So many half-forwards in our team now, there's a question on where Watts fits in a structure that seems to be about giving Hogan more space closer to goal, balanced by having multiple players available to cause destruction by going forward at the right moment.

Jack Watts - tall wing + sporadic relief ruck + roving third tall forward + pinch defender... I just want to see him play so I can find out what he'll be doing this year.

 

15 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

It's just strange. The guy hasn't played a game since last year. He had a good year, kicked roughly 40 goals, was probably our best forward overall for the season, and yet somehow the club has taken away any positivity from that hard work and success and we're left with all this media negativity and these threads amongst supporters. I think they've managed the situation poorly, regardless of the outcome now, so whatever's happens happens I guess. Ugh.

I'll bite - exactly how would you handle it ?

He has obviously in some shape or form not met a standard or standards. You would still play him in the practice matches ?

We have 40 plus players on our list who have apparently done the right thing and one that hasn't and the club has handled it poorly ? What message does it send to the rest of the group if you play him in the practice matches if he hasn't kept his end of the bargain ?

So I'll  repeat the question. How would have handled it ?

 

Edited February 28, 20178 yr by nutbean

6 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I'll bite - exactly how would you handle it ?

He has obviously in some shape or form not met a standard or standards. You would still play him in the practice matches ?

We have 40 plus players on our list who have apparently done the right thing and one that hasn't and the club has handled it poorly ? What message does it send to the rest of the group if you play him in the practice matches if he hasn't kept his end of the bargain ?

So I'll  repeat the question. How would have handled it ?

 

The issue for mine isn't around he not playing, that is up to the club. The issue is how they have handled it publically, they came out too late to put an end to it and have said too much. A simple answer along the lines of 'we are trying a few different set ups etc etc' would have shut the media up very quickly. Instead they have fanned the flames. That has put Jack under even greater pressure and that may backfire spectacularly, we will have to wait and see, it also could do wonders but I am leaning more to the former if the past is any indication of the future. 

Just now, Chris said:

The issue for mine isn't around he not playing, that is up to the club. The issue is how they have handled it publically, they came out too late to put an end to it and have said too much. A simple answer along the lines of 'we are trying a few different set ups etc etc' would have shut the media up very quickly. Instead they have fanned the flames. That has put Jack under even greater pressure and that may backfire spectacularly, we will have to wait and see, it also could do wonders but I am leaning more to the former if the past is any indication of the future. 

Trying a few different set ups would have shut the media up ? Seriously ? So the much maligned Watts finally has a decent year - almost a breakout year - finally. And then you leave him out of the first two practice matches because you are trying "different setups" . This is a rhetorical question but how stupid do you think the media is ????? ( the correct answer is stupid but not quite that stupid).

 

Maybe the problem is that he gets a lot of goals In St Kilda but not necessarily against.

He's one of our best 5 players.

Pre-season is a place to have a look at the best trainers.

It's a mild warning shot to JW-nothing more.

He will play for sure.

Just now, nutbean said:

Trying a few different set ups would have shut the media up ? Seriously ? So the much maligned Watts finally has a decent year - almost a breakout year - finally. And then you leave him out of the first two practice matches because you are trying "different setups" . This is a rhetorical question but how stupid do you think the media is ????? ( the correct answer is stupid but not quite that stupid).

 

It would not have silenced them but it would have doused a lot of the flames and certainly not added fuel to the fire. 

Just now, Chris said:

It would not have silenced them but it would have doused a lot of the flames and certainly not added fuel to the fire. 

May have to agree to disagree - going with the sort of reason you suggested is so obviously a nonsense it would have caused more media speculation. You would play him down back, down forward, in the ruck where-ever. But to leave out a player who has had his best season to date and can play anywhere because you are trying different set ups ? The only reason you could possibly construct to have him not play in the practice games is injury - yet he hasn't missed a session. Always easier to tell the truth - you don't look so silly that way.

The only way to handle it where it was not going cause a media frenzy was to play him. 

I reckon he will get the message, do what he has to do, and then get a game probably round one and all will be quickly forgotten.. 

2 hours ago, Nasher said:

 

Do you hold every other player to the same standard? How many tackles and pressure acts have you counted from Hogan so far?

If Watts is part of our best side in round 1 then he plays - and surely nobody is arguing that he isn't.

Hogan's defensive work has improved from what I've seen this preseason, and he's never had issues with work rate or contesting around the ground. Plus he's just turned 22 not about to turn 26. But sure, if Hogan wasn't contributing to his full ability I'd drop him at some stage if it was needed.

If Watts is training with intensity then he'll play with intensity and be part of the best 22. An easy way to test that is tackles and pressure acts.

What cereal does Jack Watts have for breaksfast?

I've always thought of him as a Nutri-grain guy.

thoughts?

3 minutes ago, nutbean said:

May have to agree to disagree - going with the sort of reason you suggested is so obviously a nonsense it would have caused more media speculation. You would play him down back, down forward, in the ruck where-ever. But to leave out a player who has had his best season to date and can play anywhere because you are trying different set ups ? The only reason you could possibly construct to have him not play in the practice games is injury - yet he hasn't missed a session. Always easier to tell the truth - you don't look so silly that way.

The only way to handle it where it was not going cause a media frenzy was to play him. 

I reckon he will get the message, do what he has to do, and then get a game probably round one and all will be quickly forgotten.. 

Yet a whole raft of big name players don't play in the first, and sometimes second JLT game for exactly the reason that they are trialing kids and different set ups etc. No one bats an eyelid at that, the only reason this would be different is the whispers coming from somewhere within the club.

44 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

It's just strange. The guy hasn't played a game since last year. He had a good year, kicked roughly 40 goals, was probably our best forward overall for the season, and yet somehow the club has taken away any positivity from that hard work and success and we're left with all this media negativity and these threads amongst supporters. I think they've managed the situation poorly, regardless of the outcome now, so whatever's happens happens I guess. Ugh.

I think they have managed the situation quite perfectly. 

On ya Goody.

such a pleasure to read a thread that's not about jack watts.

Edited February 28, 20178 yr by daisycutter

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yet a whole raft of big name players don't play in the first, and sometimes second JLT game for exactly the reason that they are trialing kids and different set ups etc. No one bats an eyelid at that, the only reason this would be different is the whispers coming from somewhere within the club.

Name one player from one team who has not played in either of the two JLT games that not a senior who they ease into preseason training or is coming off a limited preseason ? ( actually you cant until after this weekend !). Besides the teams that went very deep into September it is now a rarity.

52 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

It's just strange. The guy hasn't played a game since last year. He had a good year, kicked roughly 40 goals, was probably our best forward overall for the season, and yet somehow the club has taken away any positivity from that hard work and success and we're left with all this media negativity and these threads amongst supporters. I think they've managed the situation poorly, regardless of the outcome now, so whatever's happens happens I guess. Ugh.

Good post Lord T.
The club is not at all obliged to explain anything about inner workings of the team to the football world and we're better off keeping them in the dark.
In 63 years of watching footy, I've never seen a single player from any team put under the microscope and publicly flogged anywhere near as much and unfairly as Jack Watts has been from day one !   It's been emotional abuse and Jack's admirable handling of it doesn't mean any of us know that it hasn't hurt him deeply and hurt his playing.  Many here assume it's water off a ducks back to Jack, but we don't really know that.

Roos handled Jack well (kind/supportive) and got results.

Even if Jack came back run down, drunk, stoned, with several hookers on the go and told Goodwin to shove it when confronted (none of which probably happened) I think they should have publicly said:

"We're resting Jack for a few games to try some new players out."  No drama.

Privately they should have told him the truth and worked to remedy whatever problem they perceived.
Keep the opposition guessing.

1 hour ago, Chris said:

I think Watts is terrific, just great, the best. I think he has been training well, better than anyone, Goodwin doesn't know, he tells lies, all lies. Goodwin tells so many lies he makes Hillary look honest, so dishonest, not like Watts, Watts is honest, hes more honest than anyone, almost more honest than me. Now it seems some people have been saying some bad things about Watts, all lies, fake, fake news. The forums get all the facts, not the fake facts, the real ones, they take these facts and make fake news, all fake, even Demonland had a topic about Watts that wasn't about Watts, see fake, liars at Demonland, how can you have a topic about Watts without it being about Watts, that is what these forums do, all lies, alternative facts.....disgusting.  

Best post I've read in a long time, completely cracked me up ?

12 minutes ago, Rob Mac...... said:

Jack came back run down, drunk, stoned, with several hookers on the go and told Goodwin to shove it when confronted

Wow no wonder he's been left out!

4 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Wow no wonder he's been left out!

Hahaha   Love your work Fifty-5.  Nice edit

22 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Name one player from one team who has not played in either of the two JLT games that not a senior who they ease into preseason training or is coming off a limited preseason ? ( actually you cant until after this weekend !). Besides the teams that went very deep into September it is now a rarity.

So the heat would maybe have come on this week, not last, and would have built massively after the next game if he doesn't play. Fact is the club could have done a damn site better in burying it. 

36 minutes ago, Rob Mac...... said:

Good post Lord T.
The club is not at all obliged to explain anything about inner workings of the team to the football world and we're better off keeping them in the dark.
In 63 years of watching footy, I've never seen a single player from any team put under the microscope and publicly flogged anywhere near as much and unfairly as Jack Watts has been from day one !   It's been emotional abuse and Jack's admirable handling of it doesn't mean any of us know that it hasn't hurt him deeply and hurt his playing.  Many here assume it's water off a ducks back to Jack, but we don't really know that.

Roos handled Jack well (kind/supportive) and got results.

Even if Jack came back run down, drunk, stoned, with several hookers on the go and told Goodwin to shove it when confronted (none of which probably happened) I think they should have publicly said:

"We're resting Jack for a few games to try some new players out."  No drama.

Privately they should have told him the truth and worked to remedy whatever problem they perceived.
Keep the opposition guessing.

Omg.. Jack isn't a protected species, he is a 25 year old adult who hasn't met the club expectations on his training standards. So in the other words, he has been lazy in his work ethic and has now gotten a kick up the bum that he thoroughly deserves. Jack has no one else but himself to blame. 

Goodwin is setting an elite standard that is primed to stand up in finals and if Jack cannot follow that then im sorry he gets left behind and made to work extra hard like all players do.

Why do we need to to continue to cuddle jack every single time? He is a grown adult who has coasted along his whole career for one good season in return.

Im sorry for setting a huge expectation on Jack, but fact is, he has been a huge disappointment so far in his career and decided that after 1 good year to take the pedal of the foot and back on cruise mode. Look at Max Gawn and Jack Viney. Both have had career best years and both have stepped it up another level during the pre season because they are driven to the fact they now know you have to back it up each year and strive to be elite in the competition.

I applaud Goodwin on his hard stance on this. Players love him and its shown already in the last 2 games that they are on the exact same page as him.

Edited February 28, 20178 yr by dazzledavey36

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Omg.. Jack isn't a protected species, he is a 25 year old adult who hasn't met the club expectations on his training standards. So in the other words, he has been lazy in his work ethic and has now gotten a kick up the bum that he thoroughly deserves. Jack has no one else but himself to blame. 

Goodwin is setting an elite standard that is primed to stand up in finals and if Jack cannot follow that then im sorry he gets left behind and made to work extra hard like all players do.

Why do we need to to continue to cuddle jack every single time? He is a grown adult who has coasted along his whole career for one good season in return.

Im sorry for setting a huge expectation on Jack, but fact is, he has been a huge disappointment so far in his career and decided that after 1 good year to take the pedal of the foot and back on cruise mode. Look at Max Gawn and Jack Viney. Both have had career best years and both have stepped it up another level during the pre season because they are driven to the fact they now know you have to back it up each year and strive to be elite in the competition.

I applaud Goodwin on his hard stance on this. Players love him and its shown already in the last 2 games that they ate on the exact same page as him.

lol - didn't realise they were that hungry. sounds a bit unhygienic though

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

lol - didn't realise they were that hungry. sounds a bit unhygienic though

Yeah not bad.. il give you 2 points for that.

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Omg.. Jack isn't a protected species, he is a 25 year old adult who hasn't met the club expectations on his training standards. So in the other words, he has been lazy in his work ethic and has now gotten a kick up the bum that he thoroughly deserves. Jack has no one else but himself to blame. 

Goodwin is setting an elite standard that is primed to stand up in finals and if Jack cannot follow that then im sorry he gets left behind and made to work extra hard like all players do.

Why do we need to to continue to cuddle jack every single time? He is a grown adult who has coasted along his whole career for one good season in return.

Im sorry for setting a huge expectation on Jack, but fact is, he has been a huge disappointment so far in his career and decided that after 1 good year to take the pedal of the foot and back on cruise mode. Look at Max Gawn and Jack Viney. Both have had career best years and both have stepped it up another level during the pre season because they are driven to the fact they now know you have to back it up each year and strive to be elite in the competition.

I applaud Goodwin on his hard stance on this. Players love him and its shown already in the last 2 games that they are on the exact same page as him.

I don't think you will find anyone saying don't drop him if he isn't up to standard, and good on Goodwin for doing so. The only concern is with the message to the public and affect that has on Jack  and on the club. Do we really want a whole lot more eyes on a young team and build the pressure up further? I certainly wouldn't, I would be keeping everything as pressure free (from the outside) as I could to help the young team develop and then face the pressure.

Yes the pressure will be on Jack, but it will rub off with extra media scrutiny, that may not be a good thing.