Terrorist attack on Canadian Mosque

[Biffen 12,450]

1 hour ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Sorry Biff.  Of course, you thought you were wrong once, only to find out that you made a mistake on that as well.  Such Conventions and Protocols are binding under international law.  If they weren't no-one would ever have been prosecuted for war crimes.  So I guess those that prosecuted were bullshitters as well?

 

The Nuremberg trials were set up to prosecute only Germans I'va.Well done for squeezing a Nazi reference into the debate anyway.

Great article titled "Here a Nazi,there a Nazi,every where a Nazi,Nazi"on the state of journalism and debate these days by Jim Goad.

AF might be able to cut and paste it in for you-he's a film maker .

Edited February 8, 2017 by Biffen

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Biffen said:

There are no protocols in Islam except those of slavery,dispossesion,theft,corpoaral punishment, capital punishment, honour killings, honour rapes,beatings,throwing people off buildings, destroying ancient architecture, killing jews,killing christians, killing westerners, outbreeding everyone, bombing ,running over or blowing up innocents ,beheading,stopping dissent, marrying off children to be raped,deception,keeping women in the house,not eating pigs and spreading the good word by force!

It's a cracking read.

 

Sounds much like many books of the old testament. Or, like Bush and Trump about water-boarding. Or like the Usa intelligentia which dropped 2 atom bombs.

[Biffen 12,450]

26 minutes ago, dieter said:

Sounds much like many books of the old testament. Or, like Bush and Trump about water-boarding. Or like the Usa intelligentia which dropped 2 atom bombs.

A good water boarding never hurt anybody that didn't deserve it. 

Western civilisation doesn't live by the Old Testament and didn't exist when it was written.

The Japenese were no saints back then either.

[Jara 1,149]

Biff - I really wish you'd stop talking about Islam as if it were a monolith. Yet again, you're inciting violence against my poor bloody nephew.

 

lotta those things you mention are in our own holy book. And you don't need any sort of book except a cheque one to invade Iraq and kill hundreds of thousands of people. Or do you blame Muslims for that as well?

[Biffen 12,450]

3 minutes ago, Jara said:

Biff - I really wish you'd stop talking about Islam as if it were a monolith. Yet again, you're inciting violence against my poor bloody nephew.

 

lotta those things you mention are in our own holy book. And you don't need any sort of book except a cheque one to invade Iraq and kill hundreds of thousands of people. Or do you blame Muslims for that as well?

Can you tell me where I've incited violence against your "poor bloody nephew"?

Also,it's not my Holy Book.Yet it's reformed itself over the centuries

Now you bring poor little innocent Iraq into it as more obfuscation.

Because one thing is thus does not make another bunch of emotional ,heart-wrenching things true.

Do you deny Islam is responsible for the thing I've listed above-that is the only question you need to find an answer to in reply.

 

[dieter 3,325]

20 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Can you tell me where I've incited violence against your "poor bloody nephew"?

Also,it's not my Holy Book.Yet it's reformed itself over the centuries

Now you bring poor little innocent Iraq into it as more obfuscation.

Because one thing is thus does not make another bunch of emotional ,heart-wrenching things true.

Do you deny Islam is responsible for the thing I've listed above-that is the only question you need to find an answer to in reply.

 

Yep, man, it 'reformed' itself: where did that 'reform' lead? Mainly to Aushwitz and Hiroshima.

And, closer to home, all the abuses by religious clergy.

[Biffen 12,450]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

Yep, man, it 'reformed' itself: where did that 'reform' lead? Mainly to Aushwitz and Hiroshima.

And, closer to home, all the abuses by religious clergy.

I'm not about to defend Christianity.

It's a very long bow you chose to draw.Almost nonsensical.

I'd put the second war down to the gullible and obedient nature of the German people .Ditto the Japanese who thought themselves invincible.

One thing  Brits,Yanks and Australians are very good at is questioning authority.

Wish I could say the same for Muslims but no,they believe something that cannot be questioned.

The reason they wont question,reform or adapt to 2017 is because they live in fear of the consequences.

It wont work in a largely atheist society,or one derived from Christianity.

 

 

 

[Binmans PA 26,592]

10 hours ago, Biffen said:

The UN ,the Eurozone, The Trans-Pacific alliance,NATO,ASEAN.,The Paris summit on Man Bear Pig.....

Whatevs.

They're nice things to sign for politicians and give them a trip OS occasionally to catch up with like-minded bullsh!tters.

The likes of the UN, NATO and the EU, despite what Trump thinks, are what has held Europe and the Americas together since the Second World War. You start pulling out of these and there will be absolutely no safeguards/accountability. There is barely any accountability as it is and there'll be absolutely none if these partnerships are dissolved.

Turkey is a dictatorship. France could well soon become one. The domino effect is a distinct possibility in Europe. If Trump had his way, it'd be the United States of Trump. These instances are all a threat to democracy, a system that is by no means perfect, but the best framework man/woman has ever invented to govern and live by. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by A F

[dieter 3,325]

17 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I'm not about to defend Christianity.

It's a very long bow you chose to draw.Almost nonsensical.

I'd put the second war down to the gullible and obedient nature of the German people .Ditto the Japanese who thought themselves invincible.

One thing  Brits,Yanks and Australians are very good at is questioning authority.

Wish I could say the same for Muslims but no,they believe something that cannot be questioned.

The reason they wont question,reform or adapt to 2017 is because they live in fear of the consequences.

It wont work in a largely atheist society,or one derived from Christianity.

 

 

 

Yep, they're so good at challenging authority that they went to Vietnam, Gallipoli, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Boer war, all the way with lbj, the full catastrophe. The reason idiot Australia followed was/is because they are so stupid to believe that there would be no consequences for blindly following the USA and Britain into colonial/illegal/ immoral wars.

 

[Binmans PA 26,592]

21 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I'm not about to defend Christianity.

It's a very long bow you chose to draw.Almost nonsensical.

I'd put the second war down to the gullible and obedient nature of the German people .Ditto the Japanese who thought themselves invincible.

One thing  Brits,Yanks and Australians are very good at is questioning authority.

Wish I could say the same for Muslims but no,they believe something that cannot be questioned.

The reason they wont question,reform or adapt to 2017 is because they live in fear of the consequences.

It wont work in a largely atheist society,or one derived from Christianity.

Americans let religion lead them around by their dicks. Pretty much everyone outside of Cali and NY aren't great at questioning authority at all, otherwise they would have realised how absurd Christianity is. Although nice in parts, it has no use in politics and IMO no use in the modern Western world. When people were dumber, less knowledgable and before much of science, it made more sense to be god-fearing. These days they may as well believe in flying pigs.

Australians are a lot better at questioning authority though and it's why we have such a great history of political subversion in this country. We don't take [censored] for long and it's something our liberal friends in America are finally exercising. 

[dieter 3,325]

2 minutes ago, dieter said:

Yep, they're so good at challenging authority that they went to Vietnam, Gallipoli, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Boer war, all the way with lbj, the full catastrophe. The reason idiot Australia followed was/is because they are so stupid to believe that there would be no consequences for blindly following the USA and Britain into colonial/illegal/ immoral wars.

 

You know what, Mr Biff, you should have two identities on Demonland, the weird eccentric lunatic Biffin who is vaguely attractive and funny to fellow lunatics like me, and Bigot who is total anathema.

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, A F said:

Americans let religion lead them around by their dicks. Pretty much everyone outside of Cali and NY aren't great at questioning authority at all, otherwise they would have realised how absurd Christianity is. Although nice in parts, it has no use in politics and IMO no use in the modern Western world. When people were dumber, less knowledgable and before much of science, it made more sense to be god-fearing. These days they may as well believe in flying pigs.

Australians are a lot better at questioning authority though and it's why we have such a great history of political subversion in this country. We don't take [censored] for long and it's something our liberal friends in America are finally exercising. 

AF, unfortunately I disagree with your notion that Australoids are better at questioning authority, I'll refer you to the Conscription debate during WW1 when the only decent thing that ever came from a cathoic bishop's mouth was mannix adminishing the Australoids for sending our kids to die in another britsh colonial war - eg the dardenelles - and the blind conga line of suckholes into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan , Iraq and Syria.

 

[Binmans PA 26,592]

7 minutes ago, dieter said:

AF, unfortunately I disagree with your notion that Australoids are better at questioning authority, I'll refer you to the Conscription debate during WW1 when the only decent thing that ever came from a cathoic bishop's mouth was mannix adminishing the Australoids for sending our kids to die in another britsh colonial war - eg the dardenelles - and the blind conga line of suckholes into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan , Iraq and Syria.

 

I certainly can't debate us being lead by America's dick into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Americans barely question authority. We questioned Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. The American people seemed to question Iraq and Syria.

[Biffen 12,450]

58 minutes ago, A F said:

The likes of the UN, NATO and the EU, despite what Trump thinks, are what has held Europe and the Americas together since the Second World War. You start pulling out of these and there will be absolutely no safeguards/accountability. There is barely any accountability as it is and there'll be absolutely none if these partnerships are dissolved.

Turkey is a dictatorship. France could well soon become one. The domino effect is a distinct possibility in Europe. If Trump had his way, it'd be the United States of Trump. These instances are all a threat to democracy, a system that is by no means perfect, but the best framework man/woman has ever invented to govern and live by. 

The bodies you referred to are effectively finished anyway.

I wonder what safeguards or accountability you refer to?There has NEVER been ANY at any time in history except to stock up on weaponry and have a well drilled Army.

You're correct that Turkey is heading towards another Caliphate under Erdogan,who should be stopped by the sane world before people start to see him as anything but another would be Sultanate scumbag,which he is.I posted an article that had the wonderful idea that we should invade them again,not just on Anzac day.

However the Domino theory you have of Europe is not something I can understand.Do you think Europe follows or cares what they do in Turkey?The only thing Europe has ever sought from Turkey is cigarettes and young boys who'll do anything for money.

There is no Domino theory applicable to Europe.Your hypothesis is erroneous.Europe is and never has been held together by anything except a worthy and credible distrust of Islam.Currently Pegida and other movements like it are trying to remove the 5% of Muslims that populate their countries because they see the writing on the wall.The stupidly generous Angela Merkel threw open the doors to Syrians in an attempt to keep her huge posterior in the Head chair.She will be finished shortly after that grand idiotic betrayal of her country.She also ruined her EU mafia as the Syrians had to rock and stone and pollute their way through Hungary,Croatia,Greece and Austria to get there.None of them looked that bedraggled to me.(please don't mention the dead baby on the beach,I'll cry)

On the French becoming a dictatorship I find that laughable.You must not have ever been there.They cannot agree on what to eat for lunch let alone follow a dictator.Was it De Gualle who said "It's impossible to govern a country that has 286 different types of cheese".Marie Le Pen will be great for them when she gets the reigns.Socialism has run it's race there if you have ever spoken to a Frenchman as simple things like posting a letter can become a bureaucratic nightmare.If she doesn't win that Macron guy with the mummy wife might.

Oh ,and it IS The United States of Trump,with the exception of California,who are mooting the ridiculous notion of separation from the rest of the country,which with some luck,might occur with the help of the tectonic plates and The San Andreas Fault in the near future.Then Ben Affleck and co can speak their hare brained love theories to the fishes.i say that despite my sister and Nephew living in groovy LA.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Biffen

[Biffen 12,450]

51 minutes ago, dieter said:

You know what, Mr Biff, you should have two identities on Demonland, the weird eccentric lunatic Biffin who is vaguely attractive and funny to fellow lunatics like me, and Bigot who is total anathema.

You should have ONE that can form a proper sentence.

[Biffen 12,450]

56 minutes ago, dieter said:

Yep, they're so good at challenging authority that they went to Vietnam, Gallipoli, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Boer war, all the way with lbj, the full catastrophe. The reason idiot Australia followed was/is because they are so stupid to believe that there would be no consequences for blindly following the USA and Britain into colonial/illegal/ immoral wars.

 

You must remember Herr Diets,we still have the Queen of England as our head of State.

We also tend to stand beside our mates in times of conflict.

I might not agree with the reasons for going but a soldier doesn't have that luxury.

Once it's on,in for a penny ,in for a pound and stick your hammer and sickle where the sun don't shine both on the domestic front and abroad.

 

[Binmans PA 26,592]

26 minutes ago, Biffen said:

The bodies you referred to are effectively finished anyway.

I wonder what safeguards or accountability you refer to?There has NEVER been ANY at any time in history except to stock up on weaponry and have a well drilled Army.

You're correct that Turkey is heading towards another Caliphate under Erdogan,who should be stopped by the sane world before people start to see him as anything but another would be Sultanate scumbag,which he is.I posted an article that had the wonderful idea that we should invade them again,not just on Anzac day.

However the Domino theory you have of Europe is not something I can understand.Do you think Europe follows or cares what they do in Turkey?The only thing Europe has ever sought from Turkey is cigarettes and young boys who'll do anything for money.

There is no Domino theory applicable to Europe.Your hypothesis is erroneous.Europe is and never has been held together by anything except a worthy and credible distrust of Islam.Currently Pegida and other movements like it are trying to remove the 5% of Muslims that populate their countries because they see the writing on the wall.The stupidly generous Angela Merkel threw open the doors to Syrians in an attempt to keep her huge posterior in the Head chair.She will be finished shortly after that grand idiotic betrayal of her country.She also ruined her EU mafia as the Syrians had to rock and stone and pollute their way through Hungary,Croatia,Greece and Austria to get there.None of them looked that bedraggled to me.(please don't mention the dead baby on the beach,I'll cry)

On the French becoming a dictatorship I find that laughable.You must not have ever been there.They cannot agree on what to eat for lunch let alone follow a dictator.Was it De Gualle who said "It's impossible to govern a country that has 286 different types of cheese".Marie Le Pen will be great for them when she gets the reigns.Socialism has run it's race there if you have ever spoken to a Frenchman as simple things like posting a letter can become a bureaucratic nightmare.If she doesn't win that Macron guy with the mummy wife might.

Oh ,and it IS The United States of Trump,with the exception of California,who are mooting the ridiculous notion of separation from the rest of the country,which with some luck,might occur with the help of the tectonic plates and The San Andreas Fault in the near future.Then Ben Affleck and co can speak their hare brained love theories to the fishes.i say that despite my sister and Nephew living in groovy LA.

You are aware of the rise of the Hard Right in Europe, right? Been going on almost a decade. An anti-immigration platform has multiple country's scared and hard right loonies on the cusp of power. BREXIT impacts Trump, Trump and BREXIT impact on the National Front in France, all of a sudden three of the world's biggest forces are Hard Right. If that's not a threat to Western civilisation (and indeed all of civilisation), I don't know what is.

The dominos are lined up and ready to fall. And you're incessantly blabbering on about radical Islam. My God. See the real threat when it's kicking you in the balls, already. ISIS and their 20 supporters would be rubbing their hands together. Division and fear is exactly what they want and you and many others are their chumps. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by A F

[Biffen 12,450]

2 hours ago, A F said:

You are aware of the rise of the Hard Right in Europe, right? Been going on almost a decade. An anti-immigration platform has multiple country's scared and hard right loonies on the cusp of power. BREXIT impacts Trump, Trump and BREXIT impact on the National Front in France, all of a sudden three of the world's biggest forces are Hard Right. If that's not a threat to Western civilisation (and indeed all of civilisation), I don't know what is.

The dominos are lined up and ready to fall. And you're incessantly blabbering on about radical Islam. My God. See the real threat when it's kicking you in the balls, already. ISIS and their 20 supporters would be rubbing their hands together. Division and fear is exactly want and you and many others are their chumps. 

 

It's a reaction to the Socialist,new wave,no work,weakling governments who've sold out their citizens to immigrants in order to help prop up their majorities at election time.

People are on to it and the Left is finished .In fact the left/right dichotomy might be finished for the makes sense/doesn't make any sense dichotomy with any luck.

Brexit and Trump are only pariahs to hipsters who live in a utopian playground.Yet both won at the polls.Le Pen would be a great addition . Geert Wilders will get in too.

Domino theory was originally about stopping sh!t heads like Mao,Pol Pot,Ho Chi MInh, Kim Jong Il etc but its nice you've applied it to people who want to return their countries to people actually born there without being called racist scum,Fascist,Bigot,white supremacist,Nazi and all the other names used by those who don't understand the phenomenon.ISIS and those ready to join it are festering away with tacit acceptance from the lovey doveys like Trudeau and those like him who are about to leave office.

Division and fear are justified in places like Rotherham,Birmingham,Malbo ,Antwerp,Brussels,Paris,Nice,Mannheim,Cologne, Luton,Oslo and anywhere else where people are being intimidated or raped by Muslims without the government reporting the number and creed of the perpetrators for fear of being labelled Islamophobic,(as if it is an irrational fear).

Your last sentence calling me a chump is unintelligible but you would do well to purchase a mirror next time you drop by the Mosque for a wash.

   Waleed Aly would do well to question his  adopted faith instead of the culture that gave him his Education and saved his parents from that hellhole known as Egypt.Trendy as he is .The energy he expends trying to quell western rage would be better spent questioning Koranic text and Imams.

You obviously subscribe to the theory that it's people like me that give rise to Islamaphobia only I'm not afraid of Islam,I'm happy to attack it and push it back to the Desert where it belongs, while you want to embrace this 7th century war doctrine that sees us as pig eating,decadent,lustful ,drunken animals-which I'll admit to also.They don't know what they're missing out on ,or they're jealous.

There's nothing Loony about protecting a modern secular way of life to the exclusion of illiterate hordes  of child raping,homophobic head chopping,death to Israel/Australia/USA chanting,cartoonist murdering,rioting,stoning barbarians.

The real lunacy is appeasing those that seek to destroy our way of life.Tolerance can only be applied to those that reciprocate.You might think growing a beard and supporting Islam is an appropriate response to this totalitarian religion because you either don't want to upset a neighbour/friend/ guy who makes your falafel balls by day and sends the money to ISIS by night, or you have been cowed into supporting a doctrine bent on killing us.

Let the "dominoes" tumble. Maybe Europeans want it that way.

That's known as democracy.

  

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Biffen

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

12 hours ago, Biffen said:

A good water boarding never hurt anybody that didn't deserve it. 

Western civilisation doesn't live by the Old Testament and didn't exist when it was written.

The Japenese were no saints back then either.

I think our society would be a better one without you in it.

You are a disgusting human being Biffen.

[Binmans PA 26,592]

8 hours ago, Biffen said:

 

It's a reaction to the Socialist,new wave,no work,weakling governments who've sold out their citizens to immigrants in order to help prop up their majorities at election time.

People are on to it and the Left is finished .In fact the left/right dichotomy might be finished for the makes sense/doesn't make any sense dichotomy with any luck.

Brexit and Trump are only pariahs to hipsters who live in a utopian playground.Yet both won at the polls.Le Pen would be a great addition . Geert Wilders will get in too.

Domino theory was originally about stopping sh!t heads like Mao,Pol Pot,Ho Chi MInh, Kim Jong Il etc but its nice you've applied it to people who want to return their countries to people actually born there without being called racist scum,Fascist,Bigot,white supremacist,Nazi and all the other names used by those who don't understand the phenomenon.ISIS and those ready to join it are festering away with tacit acceptance from the lovey doveys like Trudeau and those like him who are about to leave office.

Division and fear are justified in places like Rotherham,Birmingham,Malbo ,Antwerp,Brussels,Paris,Nice,Mannheim,Cologne, Luton,Oslo and anywhere else where people are being intimidated or raped by Muslims without the government reporting the number and creed of the perpetrators for fear of being labelled Islamophobic,(as if it is an irrational fear).

Your last sentence calling me a chump is unintelligible but you would do well to purchase a mirror next time you drop by the Mosque for a wash.

   Waleed Aly would do well to question his  adopted faith instead of the culture that gave him his Education and saved his parents from that hellhole known as Egypt.Trendy as he is .The energy he expends trying to quell western rage would be better spent questioning Koranic text and Imams.

You obviously subscribe to the theory that it's people like me that give rise to Islamaphobia only I'm not afraid of Islam,I'm happy to attack it and push it back to the Desert where it belongs, while you want to embrace this 7th century war doctrine that sees us as pig eating,decadent,lustful ,drunken animals-which I'll admit to also.They don't know what they're missing out on ,or they're jealous.

There's nothing Loony about protecting a modern secular way of life to the exclusion of illiterate hordes  of child raping,homophobic head chopping,death to Israel/Australia/USA chanting,cartoonist murdering,rioting,stoning barbarians.

The real lunacy is appeasing those that seek to destroy our way of life.Tolerance can only be applied to those that reciprocate.You might think growing a beard and supporting Islam is an appropriate response to this totalitarian religion because you either don't want to upset a neighbour/friend/ guy who makes your falafel balls by day and sends the money to ISIS by night, or you have been cowed into supporting a doctrine bent on killing us.

Let the "dominoes" tumble. Maybe Europeans want it that way.

That's known as democracy.

  

 

No. The rise of the Hard Right is exstricably linked to three men's thirst for power in the wake of 9/11 and how they manipulated facts in order to keep themselves in power.

Howard, Bush and Blair were each struggling in their electorates until 9/11 happened. They harnessed this fear and ramped it up 200 times and the world has never been the same since.

Those three went to war in Iraq based on 'evidence' that was given to them by a member of the intelligence services, who described the alleged WMD as the unrealistic biological weapons used in the film THE ROCK.

Want to know why they were so keen to go to Iraq? Because they were all struggling domestically, just as they had been in the lead up to 9/11.

The important thing to remember about Howard, with the exception of his gun control laws (his shining achievement amongat a sea of excrement), was that he was a very poor domestic politician, as the polls showed prior to 9/11.

Even the mood between the US administration and Howard's government was described as cool in the late 90s. But as soon as the 9/11 attacks came, he enacted the ANZUS treaty and transformed himself into solid, stable hand old Johnny. A politician that suddenly stood for something internationally. It gave he and his government a vision, a purpose that they played very effectively for 3-4 years, before Australians tired of him once more and finally voted him out.

By this stage, the fear mongering and propaganda of these three men had left a lasting impact on Western politics. It lead to a stasis between progressive and conservative governments (progressive governments had to take traditionally conservative measures on border protection). The traditional Left had moved so Centre-Right, it meant that two major parties occupied the same space, hence the rise of a fringe movement on the Right.

These pockets on the Right were galvanised and fed by a hungry Murdoch media machine that insisted that all Muslims were out to threaten Western democracy and by extension Christianity and our way of life. This campaign sowed seeds of division and eventually foreshadowed BREXIT, Trump's racist anti-immigration platform (remember, all Mexicans are rapists, apparently) and the multitude of Far Right European politicians who were now all of a sudden legitimised and empowered by an easy to adopt policy of fear.

So no, we are mostly here because of those three opportunistic men and how they acted over the course of 6-7 years.

And you want to "push [Islam] back to the desert" because you're afraid of it. Haha, there's no other reason. If you weren't afraid of it, you'd be happy to live alongside it. Pretty simple really.

And I love that someone who says he's met a couple of gay people in his life as if that's some sort of achievement, crucifies Muslims for being homophobic.

Edited February 8, 2017 by A F

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

15 hours ago, Biffen said:

The Nuremberg trials were set up to prosecute only Germans I'va.Well done for squeezing a Nazi reference into the debate anyway.

Great article titled "Here a Nazi,there a Nazi,every where a Nazi,Nazi"on the state of journalism and debate these days by Jim Goad.

AF might be able to cut and paste it in for you-he's a film maker .

How did I do that?  Was it only Nazis who were prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity?  The Geneva Convention is worthless I suppose.  Come on Biff, your sense of history is surely better than that.

[Jara 1,149]

12 hours ago, Biffen said:

Can you tell me where I've incited violence against your "poor bloody nephew"?

Also,it's not my Holy Book.Yet it's reformed itself over the centuries

Now you bring poor little innocent Iraq into it as more obfuscation.

Because one thing is thus does not make another bunch of emotional ,heart-wrenching things true.

Do you deny Islam is responsible for the thing I've listed above-that is the only question you need to find an answer to in reply.

 

At Post 100, where you dragged up a list of terrible things done by fundamentalist Jihadis as if all Muslims were responsible.

 

You couldn't even bring yourself to spare a comma on the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens who were born into the Muslim faith and who are just going about their daily lives trying to get by. I was joking about my nephew - but unless we reach out with friendship and understanding towards the overwhelming majority, things will only get worse.

 

I can't be bothered reading over this whole thread, but you do give the occasional indication that you are well-read - if you are, it puzzles me that you can make such simplistic generalizations.   

[Jara 1,149]

12 hours ago, Biffen said:

Can you tell me where I've incited violence against your "poor bloody nephew"?

Also,it's not my Holy Book.Yet it's reformed itself over the centuries

Now you bring poor little innocent Iraq into it as more obfuscation.

Because one thing is thus does not make another bunch of emotional ,heart-wrenching things true.

Do you deny Islam is responsible for the thing I've listed above-that is the only question you need to find an answer to in reply.

 

Er - hate to break it to you, Biff, but can't you see that Iraq is more than an obfuscation? It was a brutal American attack upon a Muslm country in response to September 11 - that would have been fair enough if the country had had any involvement in Sep 11, but it didn't. In the eyes of Muslims around the world, it must have seemed like another Crusader assault upon their religion.

 

Re your last question, of course, Islamic fundamentalists have done some terrible things. So have Christian fundamentalists (e.g. George Bush) The question for me is how we respond to such insanity in a way that will stop our country from fracturing? Only one answer for me: reach out, respect, communicate. With time, the divisions will break down (e.g. I've got several Turkish friends - born in Oz - still call themselves Muslim, but it's really just an identity thing - when you get down to tin tacks, they're almost as agnostic as I am - they hold most of the same beliefs. Interestingly, I work with a lot of Saudis (I teach at a Uni) - have been for over ten years - they are often portrayed as the real devils, the veiled women, etc,... but in that time, I've noticed a real moderation in their views, as they become more exposed to Western culture. The women, for example, who cop such a lot of criticism for niqabs etc, are becoming a lot more modernised - and moderate (i.e. getting drivers'  licences, interacting with people from other cultures, expanding their world view, etc..they are real pioneers  

 

That's why I say the only way out of this mess is communication.

[Biffen 12,450]

1 hour ago, Choke said:

I think our society would be a better one without you in it.

You are a disgusting human being Biffen.

I'm all choked up.

[Biffen 12,450]

1 hour ago, iv'a worn smith said:

How did I do that?  Was it only Nazis who were prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity?  The Geneva Convention is worthless I suppose.  Come on Biff, your sense of history is surely better than that.

The Geneva convention is worthless as evidenced by the fact that it gets re-written every 25 years or so.

The treatment of spies and prisoners of war is the business of the nation holding them.

Whatever conventions signed before hand get tossed out the window during.

Why fight with one hand behind your back ?

Western civilization gets a little squeamish about it because we are the only decent chaps that consider decency toward the enemy.