From memory his work ethic was the main thing. That and the fact that not many ruckmen get drafted out of the U18's anymore.

From all reports his work ethic has improved significantly.

That, and he has really developed his forward craft, that he is now a forward who can go into the ruck, as opposed to the other way around.

After seeing what Rory Lobb could do at GWS, I would like to see someone of his ilk in the side as a back up ruck/forward. Could he fit the bill?

His draft year highlights look really good**

(**disclaimer - everyone's draft year highlights look really good) 

He was there for last years draft yet we went for an 18yr old in Mitch King, why would we revisit if we didn't last year?

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

He was there for last years draft yet we went for an 18yr old in Mitch King, why would we revisit if we didn't last year?

Maybe the same reason we took Wagner in the 2015 Rookie Draft when we didn't in 2014

Or Vandenberg in the 2014 Rookie Draft and not 2013.

Matt Jones in the 2012 Draft but not 2011.

See where this is going...........

2 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Maybe the same reason we took Wagner in the 2015 Rookie Draft when we didn't in 2014

Or Vandenberg in the 2014 Rookie Draft and not 2013.

Matt Jones in the 2012 Draft but not 2011.

See where this is going...........

I can see where it is going, but it depends on need, we obviously identified we needed another ruck so went with an 18 yr old, when there was a mature age goal kicking ruckman available......see where this is going....there were also quite a few tall ruck/fwd available for trade we went nowhere near them, Mahoney mentioned in passing another fwd/ruck would be a good option, we didn't get one, does that still mean we will draft one, who knows, personally would be surprised if it was Cameron, but stranger things have happened

Mahoney also stated we drafted McKenna to play forward after two years of playing as a defender with GWS

Edited October 24, 20168 yr by Satyriconhome

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

I can see where it is going, but it depends on need, we obviously identified we needed another ruck so went with an 18 yr old, when there was a mature age goal kicking ruckman available......see where this is going

I get that Saty, however I suspect last year we thought our ruck stocks were covered better then they actually are.

Many people, myself included were extremely underwhelmed at Jake Spencer's VFL Grand Final (in fact his whole VFL finals series was a little on the nose to be honest).  So I think with it looking more then likely that Spencer may already be at his ceiling and the fact that Watts found himself having to play 2nd Ruck (a job he did admirably), it's more apparent that we're still light on.  Mahoney himself came out at the start of trade period and said we'd be after a ruck, and then at the end of trade period said we'd likely target one in the draft.

Cameron's had a career best season with Claremont where he's produced some very good numbers as a forward who goes into the ruck.  He's spent these few season's since his draft year working on the flaws in his game.  Given he's mature age, he'd be capable of playing from Round 1 also, unlike most freshly drafted ruckmen.

That's my take on it anyway.

1 minute ago, AngryAtCasey said:

I get that Saty, however I suspect last year we thought our ruck stocks were covered better then they actually are.

Many people, myself included were extremely underwhelmed at Jake Spencer's VFL Grand Final (in fact his whole VFL finals series was a little on the nose to be honest).  So I think with it looking more then likely that Spencer may already be at his ceiling and the fact that Watts found himself having to play 2nd Ruck (a job he did admirably), it's more apparent that we're still light on.  Mahoney himself came out at the start of trade period and said we'd be after a ruck, and then at the end of trade period said we'd likely target one in the draft.

Cameron's had a career best season with Claremont where he's produced some very good numbers as a forward who goes into the ruck.  He's spent these few season's since his draft year working on the flaws in his game.  Given he's mature age, he'd be capable of playing from Round 1 also, unlike most freshly drafted ruckmen.

That's my take on it anyway.

Spencer had one bad game, he has been given a 1 year contract, with the culling that has been going on you would think the FD these days would have shown him the door if they didn't even consider him 'emergency cover'.

Pedersen is quite capable of playing the role, and for what it is worth Gawn seems to like spending a lot of time on the ground so we don't really need a ruckman/fwd, more of a fwd/ruckman, Mahoney said fwd/ruckman to take the burden off Watts playing the role, do we really need a 200cm guy playing forward alongside Hogan, personally prefer a small sized unit, seemed to work the best last season

3 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

I get that Saty, however I suspect last year we thought our ruck stocks were covered better then they actually are.

Many people, myself included were extremely underwhelmed at Jake Spencer's VFL Grand Final (in fact his whole VFL finals series was a little on the nose to be honest).  So I think with it looking more then likely that Spencer may already be at his ceiling and the fact that Watts found himself having to play 2nd Ruck (a job he did admirably), it's more apparent that we're still light on.  Mahoney himself came out at the start of trade period and said we'd be after a ruck, and then at the end of trade period said we'd likely target one in the draft.

Cameron's had a career best season with Claremont where he's produced some very good numbers as a forward who goes into the ruck.  He's spent these few season's since his draft year working on the flaws in his game.  Given he's mature age, he'd be capable of playing from Round 1 also, unlike most freshly drafted ruckmen.

That's my take on it anyway.

Agree, plus the fact that King's knee went for a second time.

I find Angry's arguments for Darcy Cameron most persuasive. With Max King gone and Spencil with a question mark hanging over him and Mitch King coming back from a serious injury we're very light-on for ruck back-up. Pedo-bear is a reasonable makeshift 2nd ruck, however he may retired soon enough. 

6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

He was there for last years draft yet we went for an 18yr old in Mitch King, why would we revisit if we didn't last year?

A year is a long time in footy mate, Maxy has gone from ranked in the 200's in the AFL player ranking to about 12 in one season. 

Not seem heaps of Cameron myself but heard some very good things so if it's pick 70 odd in the draft it would seem a good choice.

3 hours ago, TRIGON said:

I find Angry's arguments for Darcy Cameron most persuasive. With Max King gone and Spencil with a question mark hanging over him and Mitch King coming back from a serious injury we're very light-on for ruck back-up. Pedo-bear is a reasonable makeshift 2nd ruck, however he may retired soon enough. 

The only question mark on Spencers head is on here, the FD gave him another year, marvelous how it becomes fact, not opinion

Spencer has taken a spot on the list for 8 seasons and in that time he's managed 36 games, that is absolutely atrocious and I doubt that he's be on any other list for that long with that record.

I like Spence but I cannot understand why we've kept him on the list for this time if we aren't prepared to play him, he's just turned 27 and soon he will realise his time has passed and he's wasted his time on a list with a club that had no faith in him.

He would really struggle to get a spot on any other list so I guess he will just fade away after his current term expires; what a waste of everyone's time.

 

The only reason Spencer has been able to stay on the list for so long is because of his height.

It certainly is not his footballing ability (of which he virtually has none).

He was lucky enough to have been around when we only had Jamar and Max Gawn as our sole ruck-man, with no-one else to play back-up.

Edited October 25, 20168 yr by Demon Disciple

42 minutes ago, Dante said:

Spencer has taken a spot on the list for 8 seasons and in that time he's managed 36 games, that is absolutely atrocious and I doubt that he's be on any other list for that long with that record.

I like Spence but I cannot understand why we've kept him on the list for this time if we aren't prepared to play him, he's just turned 27 and soon he will realise his time has passed and he's wasted his time on a list with a club that had no faith in him.

He would really struggle to get a spot on any other list so I guess he will just fade away after his current term expires; what a waste of everyone's time.

 

 Disagree. He has been a bit stiff. Virtually the last game he played was v Geelong when we beat them at KP in2015, he played very well but was then dropped when Hogan returned.

Good knock ruckman, but it's a problem that Max is like Jimmy Stynes and likes to ruck all day. I would like the 2 of them to play a bit, just to see if it worked

1 hour ago, Dante said:

Spencer has taken a spot on the list for 8 seasons and in that time he's managed 36 games, that is absolutely atrocious and I doubt that he's be on any other list for that long with that record.

I like Spence but I cannot understand why we've kept him on the list for this time if we aren't prepared to play him, he's just turned 27 and soon he will realise his time has passed and he's wasted his time on a list with a club that had no faith in him.

He would really struggle to get a spot on any other list so I guess he will just fade away after his current term expires; what a waste of everyone's time.

 

I think atrocious is harsh.   He has never become first choice ruck and has spent a career being insurance for Russian,  then Gawn. Suited us,  suited him.   Never good enough to be first ruck,  no other strings,  but enough of an athlete and competitor to hold on to in the absence of better options.

 I'm sure if any of our young developing ruckmen showed any possibility of becoming senior footballers he would be thanked for his services. 

Edited October 25, 20168 yr by Guest

7 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

I think atrocious is harsh.   He has never become first choice ruck and has spent a career being insurance for Russian,  then Gawn. Suited us,  suited him.   Never good enough to be first ruck,  no other strings,  but enough of an athlete and competitor to hold on to in the absence of better options.

 I'm sure if any of our young developing ruckmen showed any possibility of becoming senior footballers he would be thanked for his services. 

My comment was the fact that they had left him on the list for so long was atrocious, not that he was atrocious, he has a bit of ability but it's beggars belief that they have had him at the club for so long but wouldn't play him.

i'm amazed that the club haven't worked harder to find a replacement.

 

On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:29 AM, AngryAtCasey said:

hope Cameron is available for our first pick .... but unlikely

On 25/10/2016 at 8:28 AM, Satyriconhome said:

Spencer had one bad game, he has been given a 1 year contract, with the culling that has been going on you would think the FD these days would have shown him the door if they didn't even consider him 'emergency cover'.

Pedersen is quite capable of playing the role, and for what it is worth Gawn seems to like spending a lot of time on the ground so we don't really need a ruckman/fwd, more of a fwd/ruckman, Mahoney said fwd/ruckman to take the burden off Watts playing the role, do we really need a 200cm guy playing forward alongside Hogan, personally prefer a small sized unit, seemed to work the best last season

He had a couple towards the end of the year 'Sat', that seems to point to some kind of injury he may have been carrying.

I'm happy to keep him as back up but think we will need to look for another option, particularly with King going down...

A forward/ruckman is the obvious choice but they are hard to find.

Lets see what we can unearth at draft time.

16 hours ago, Dante said:

I like Spence but I cannot understand why we've kept him on the list for this time if we aren't prepared to play him, he's just turned 27 and soon he will realise his time has passed and he's wasted his time on a list with a club that had no faith in him.

He would really struggle to get a spot on any other list so I guess he will just fade away after his current term expires; what a waste of everyone's time.

 

I guess it's only because he's insurance, not seen as a permanent best 22 player. Ruck is probably the only spot where this happens, and as we've seen with the Doggies and with us using Watts there, it's not necessary to have 2 full time big men in the side. It's rare than any team has multiple 'good' ruckman, and when this happens inevitably they look for better opportunities. The FD have probably kept Pencil on because it's easier than developing someone who might leave and cheaper than getting someone in who may play the whole season in the 2nds. 

The next draft is supposedly stacked with talls (KPP and Ruck), so we might look at giving a rookie contract to a mature ager, see how King comes back after the knee, then look at filing that role with a younger guy to develop in that FWD/Ruck role.

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

On 9/26/2016 at 7:29 AM, AngryAtCasey said:

hope Cameron is available for our first pick .... but unlikely

What's wrong with Cameron saying "sorry mate, only want to play for Melbourne", everyone else does it?

I wouldn't be against burning the two live selections (Wagner will be upgraded as 3Rd selection)  on ruckman/forward types.

Spencer and Pedo aren't long term options if we are going to win flags.

Darcy Cameron sounds like a worthy punt. 

16 minutes ago, Adzman said:

I wouldn't be against burning the two live selections (Wagner will be upgraded as 3Rd selection)  on ruckman/forward types.

Spencer and Pedo aren't long term options if we are going to win flags.

Darcy Cameron sounds like a worthy punt. 

Why?

1 hour ago, Members' Wing said:

Why?

Wagner is a proven player, and being on the senior list allows him to be available for selection round one. I doubt whoever we pick at the back end if the draft will be pushing for selection like Wagner would in the early parts of the season.

It then frees up a rookie spot for a development player. 

I hope this helps answer your question.

49 minutes ago, Adzman said:

Wagner is a proven player, and being on the senior list allows him to be available for selection round one. I doubt whoever we pick at the back end if the draft will be pushing for selection like Wagner would in the early parts of the season.

It then frees up a rookie spot for a development player. 

I hope this helps answer your question.

You're allowed to nominate one rookie to be eligible for the season prior to round 1. Wagner will probably be ours. Why upgrade him if we don't have to?