4 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm only interested in discussing his speed - we know everything else.

His speed is better than you assume.  It's better than average for his role.  He ran a 2.99 seconds for 20 metres, which is above average for an inside mid.  And even then I wonder if his pace has since improved, as he was trying to get his skin-folds down (96 to 59) for DC.  He also ran 8.11 in the agility test, which ranked third at DC.  So not only does he have good speed he's very agile and far more agile that your typical inside mid.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-2015-how-clayton-oliver-became-this-years-bolter-after-he-was-snubbed-by-vic-country/news-story/8b3101ee5546515ad780986d366f42c3

Recruiters believe Oliver could be the next Ollie Wines.

“They both have big, thick bodies, big long kicks and great attack at man and ball — powerful midfielders with good speed,” one expert said.

Ollie Wines and good speed? now I've heard it all. Love these unnamed experts the Herald Sun always quote.

 

5 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm only interested in discussing his speed - we know everything else.

His speed is better than you assume.  It's better than average for his role.  He ran a 2.99 seconds for 20 metres, which is above average for an inside mid.  And even then I wonder if his pace has since improved, as he was trying to get his skin-folds down (96 to 59) for DC.  He also ran 8.11 in the agility test, which ranked third at DC.  So not only does he have good speed he's very agile and far more agile that your typical inside mid.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-2015-how-clayton-oliver-became-this-years-bolter-after-he-was-snubbed-by-vic-country/news-story/8b3101ee5546515ad780986d366f42c3

Recruiters believe Oliver could be the next Ollie Wines.

“They both have big, thick bodies, big long kicks and great attack at man and ball — powerful midfielders with good speed,” one expert said.

Oliver has a lot more class than Wines, for mine. And we know he's a far better kick too.

Oliver is going to be the one. He's our Sam Mitchell. Will be underrated surrounded by those flashier types like Petracca, but he's the guy I'm most excited about. I look forward to seeing him play after a proper pre-season and once he gets two or three pre-seasons under his belt, he'll be our best mid.

No...he is 34, would delay the development of a young midfielder by 12 months minimum

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

No...he is 34, would delay the development of a young midfielder by 12 months minimum

But mate thinks of the guns! Its like heaven awaits you saty..

16 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

But mate thinks of the guns! Its like heaven awaits you saty..

Nah, they are old, wouldn't glisten in the preseason spring sunlight correctly, besides which we might draft an Aryan like Adonis

Hell no, stuff him. And he's 33.

3 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

No...he is 34, would delay the development of a young midfielder by 12 months minimum

Really? I was thinking he would help develop our inside mids

8 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm not really making that point, although I know how my post looks.

Bugg isn't part of any 2017 side I ever imagine.

It's the young players I mentioned that are fixtures in my side.

I know this is a Thompson thread but I gotta disagree with that point. While I wouldn't have him in a regular best 22 spot, I still see him as a valued pest for opposition players. He'll get games in 2017, probably similar to the amount he got this year.

Thinking more on the Thompson side of things I would personally be leaning towards no, mainly because I don't feel like he is what we need. I won't be upset or annoyed if we do get him but he's not someone I would go after.

2 minutes ago, Pates said:

I know this is a Thompson thread but I gotta disagree with that point. While I wouldn't have him in a regular best 22 spot, I still see him as a valued pest for opposition players. He'll get games in 2017, probably similar to the amount he got this year.

He plays wing and off half back. His skill set suits neither of these roles. He's not overly quick and doesn't have great disposal or decision making. He should be a run with player and nothing else. His role has confused me all year.

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/shows/rowey-bicks/former-teammate-makes-thommo-an-offer-to-leave-crows

Think I summed it up pretty well 

Thompson is more of what we already have.  We simply don't need him.  What we need in our midfield is better pace and ball-use.  What we need outside our midfield is a backup ruck/forward option. 

How bout Mathew Boyd from the doggies? Probably AA this year or close to it. Hasn't been offered a contract yet.

46 minutes ago, Moneider96 said:

How bout Mathew Boyd from the doggies? Probably AA this year or close to it. Hasn't been offered a contract yet.

I would have liked the idea 2-3 years ago, but he wouldn't fit into our defensive system. Too slow. He would be a weak link in our defensive chain that the opposition would look to exploit.

Yes from me, purely because we are still playing catch up with the senior leadership void.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/scott-thompson-waits-on-adelaide-contract-offer-wants-to-remain-with-crows-in-2017/news-story/ec0223a6ff07deb0c7ee7efd4d95bbb0?from=public_rss

“Thommo wants to go on as a player. He has long term aspirations to be a coach. He wants to play again next year,” Thompson’s manager Michael Doughty told The Advertiser.

“We are working through it with the club, it has been positive, there are some things that need to play out.”

I do feel it's more likely he'll stay a crow, he seems to have close ties in Adelaide and it wouldn't surprise me if he sees a potential move into coaching in SA.

11 hours ago, Pates said:

I know this is a Thompson thread but I gotta disagree with that point. While I wouldn't have him in a regular best 22 spot, I still see him as a valued pest for opposition players. He'll get games in 2017, probably similar to the amount he got this year.

Thinking more on the Thompson side of things I would personally be leaning towards no, mainly because I don't feel like he is what we need. I won't be upset or annoyed if we do get him but he's not someone I would go after.

So when you're envisaging your 2017 best 22 you have a place reserved for Bugg ?  

EDIT: just reread your post.  We're arguing at cross purposes.  You wouldn't have Bugg as best 22 either, which was my point.

Jetta  O Mac  Frost

Hunt  T Mac  Hibberd

Melksham  Viney  Stretch

Petracca  Hogan  Kent

Garlett  Weideman  Watts

Gawn  Tyson  Jones

IC:  Vince Oliver Brayshaw Salem

E: vandenBerg Harmes Trengove

Then there's the Buggs of this world.  Some may have him as an emergency ahead of Trengove.  

(I like Trengove and hope he makes best 22, but until I see him quicker on his feet I'll reserve judgement)

Bugg is OK, but not much more.  Never more than depth for me.  Just lacks class and ball use.

 

54 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Jetta  O Mac  Frost

Hunt  T Mac  Hibberd

Melksham  Viney  Stretch

Petracca  Hogan  Kent

Garlett  Weideman  Watts

Gawn  Tyson  Jones

IC:  Vince Oliver Brayshaw Salem

E: vandenBerg Harmes Trengove

 

 

Like that side

4 hours ago, Pates said:

I do feel it's more likely he'll stay a crow, he seems to have close ties in Adelaide and it wouldn't surprise me if he sees a potential move into coaching in SA.

A potential move, as opposed to a guaranteed 100% certain offer from his mate.

He would want to be certain wouldn't he?

I am tipping he will be with us next year. I'm ok with that, as we still have a few players who wont make it, and we dont have enough draft currency to replace them all.

19 hours ago, rjay said:

We need leadership no doubt.

I would be looking at someone around the 26yo age group.

Watching Thompson the other night, I think he is done and another year is not going make him any better.

This...

We are crying out for more leadership - but i dont think we should be looking at 34 year old leadership 

6 hours ago, ProDee said:

So when you're envisaging your 2017 best 22 you have a place reserved for Bugg ?  

EDIT: just reread your post.  We're arguing at cross purposes.  You wouldn't have Bugg as best 22 either, which was my point.

Jetta  O Mac  Frost

Hunt  T Mac  Hibberd

Melksham  Viney  Stretch

Petracca  Hogan  Kent

Garlett  Weideman  Watts

Gawn  Tyson  Jones

IC:  Vince Oliver Brayshaw Salem

E: vandenBerg Harmes Trengove

Then there's the Buggs of this world.  Some may have him as an emergency ahead of Trengove.  

(I like Trengove and hope he makes best 22, but until I see him quicker on his feet I'll reserve judgement)

Bugg is OK, but not much more.  Never more than depth for me.  Just lacks class and ball use.

 

Re that best 22. That forward line (bar Kent) with Hogan and Weed was trialled in the last two weeks. Against Geelong it operated at 35% efficiency from inside 50s and was equally lacklustre the week before.

Do you see it as being fully competitive come Round 1 2017 without a Pedersen type, i.e. a more experienced big bodied forward who can hold his own in marking contests and provide protection for Hogan and others? 

5 hours ago, nutbean said:

This...

We are crying out for more leadership - but i dont think we should be looking at 34 year old leadership 

I get why the age puts people off. 

To my mind every year we can essentially plug wth senior players like this is another year of development into the Viney/Tyson/Brayshaw generation on their path to taking over rmantle which hopefully isn't far away. I think we have natural leaders at the club now. They are just young.

I don't see Thompson leaving but he'd be a great person and player to have at the club right now.

1 hour ago, P-man said:

I get why the age puts people off. 

To my mind every year we can essentially plug wth senior players like this is another year of development into the Viney/Tyson/Brayshaw generation on their path to taking over rmantle which hopefully isn't far away. I think we have natural leaders at the club now. They are just young.

I don't see Thompson leaving but he'd be a great person and player to have at the club right now.

My problem is not with age per se but how long a player has got left ( i know...semantics).

The longer these guys play together the more they will gel and i think that is where we are at with our timeline. We have plenty of raw talent which will develop both organically but also will develop the more they play with each other. I can only see Thompson playing a year which is my knock on him.

 

27 minutes ago, nutbean said:

My problem is not with age per se but how long a player has got left ( i know...semantics).

The longer these guys play together the more they will gel and i think that is where we are at with our timeline. We have plenty of raw talent which will develop both organically but also will develop the more they play with each other. I can only see Thompson playing a year which is my knock on him.

 

I think one of the issues faced in the next period of development is too much being left to too few in terms of leaders on the ground, exacerabted by the likes of Dunn and Garland being squeezed out of the side.

The Geelong game wouldn't have happened if we had more leaders to share the load and guide the younger crop. Hopefully Hibberd brings some leadership traits to the table but I don't think he's well known for that.

If Thompson was to take up the spot of a player on the edge of the 22 in 2017 I'd be okay with it. Development at Casey isn't the worst thing in the world.

I think it's highly unlikely to happen though, given what we've seen this season with selections.

 

Our midfield's main strength is contested ball but lacks speed. Thompson move just would make zero sense from a playing sense. Coaching is a different story