On 17/07/2016 at 04:36, DavidNeitz9 said:

That miss from Pattison 10 meters out was disgraceful, would of been game over if he kicked it

This miss was what ultimately cost us this game, more so any mistakes that our under siege backline was in that last quarter defending the howling gale.

 I was standing near the Casey dugout at the time, the miss did not go down well in there!

Also conceding those two first quarter goals against the breeze, which were the only 2 goals kicked at that end of the ground for the entire afternoon.

It's interesting being near the bench seeing just how hands on with Plapp that Brendan McCartney is. As I've mentioned before, before every
single huddle at every game I've been to this year, McCartney has a word to Plapp directly before he enters the huddle to speak.
Then in the last quarter yesterday McCartney was constantly on the phone from standing behind the dugout to Plapp up in the coaches box.
I've gotta say if I was coaching I'd find the constant intrusions annoying, but it clearly must be working as our results this year show.

  On 17/07/2016 at 22:57, ProDee said:

Neal-Bullen racks it up at this level and some will call for his inclusion, but I just don't rate the guy.  He often makes ordinary decisions and his disposal in close is poor.

 

  On 17/07/2016 at 23:39, poita said:

Neal-Bullen needs to develop some serious tricks to make it AFL level. At the moment he is just a mid-sized plodder with average skills and and average level of competitiveness. If he can't become a Viney / Oliver-style animal at the contest, he is going to have to improve his skills by both hand and foot by 100%. If he starts hitting the scoreboard at Casey you could potentially see him taking Kennedy's role, but that would be it.

 

  On 17/07/2016 at 23:47, stuie said:

 

Yeah you guys are right, why would we play a guy who consistently racks up big numbers (37 touches and a goal in a tight game) when the AFL team is going so well...

Let's just keep picking the same guys every week and win our 6-8 games every year and just be happy with that. Rah rah, Go Dees!

'stuie', his performance probably will see him being elevated to the senior team but as we've seen already this year he hasn't set the world on fire at AFL level. Doesn't mean he won't but some of his attributes don't carry over at present. 

Having said that it's more important that Oliver comes back in and with Brayshaw plays the year out in the AFL...these 2 are going to be vital cogs in the years to come, no point wasting time at Casey.

  On 18/07/2016 at 02:53, rjay said:

'stuie', his performance probably will see him being elevated to the senior team but as we've seen already this year he hasn't set the world on fire at AFL level. Doesn't mean he won't but some of his attributes don't carry over at present. 

Having said that it's more important that Oliver comes back in and with Brayshaw plays the year out in the AFL...these 2 are going to be vital cogs in the years to come, no point wasting time at Casey.

Can't predict the future, that's why we have to go with playing who's deserving it. ANB might come in a fall on his face, but he deserves a shot, especially this week.

We've gone away from the culture of playing those who earn it with form and have gone back to games based on "talent" and the "future" and it's resulted in performances like yesterday where there was no hunger.

 

  On 18/07/2016 at 02:53, rjay said:

 

 

'stuie', his performance probably will see him being elevated to the senior team but as we've seen already this year he hasn't set the world on fire at AFL level.

He was solid in his first game, and hes only 20 years old.  Hes played just two games in 2016 so not really a fair sample size.

He deserves another shot in the seniors. He will be a player.

I rate ANB. There is a base there. He can be polished into a good AFL player.

He might always have a bit of meat and potatoes about him, but the meat will be tenderloin and the potatoes will be la bonnotte.

 

  On 18/07/2016 at 04:21, P-man said:

I rate ANB. There is a base there. He can be polished into a good AFL player.

He might always have a bit of meat and potatoes about him, but the meat will be tenderloin and the potatoes will be la bonnotte.

 

Thanks for that.... will look forward to bite or two after I win the lottery !!!

" And it’s the flavour of the sea that makes the Curriculum Saporis able to command the exorbitant price of 500 Euros per kilogram: if you think it sounds excessive, you need to keep in mind the way it’s grown and harvested. Obviously the limited land space in which it has to grow plays a big part: of the island’s 550 hectares dedicated to agriculture, the Bonnotte potato occupies only 5%. But the price is so high because of the harvesting method: to guarantee the quality of the product, fragile and delicate as it is, the Bonnotte must be picked one by one, and strictly by hand." 

  On 18/07/2016 at 02:56, stuie said:

Can't predict the future, that's why we have to go with playing who's deserving it. ANB might come in a fall on his face, but he deserves a shot, especially this week.

We've gone away from the culture of playing those who earn it with form and have gone back to games based on "talent" and the "future" and it's resulted in performances like yesterday where there was no hunger.

 

Still going with this line despite the fact we've left plenty of talented kids out of the side (Oliver, Hulett, Weeds, Stretch) and played almost everyone who's been doing well in the VFL (Matt Jones, Grimes, White)?

It's probably now time for ANB to have another shot. He should've come in based on refreshing the team after Darwin. But there's minimal evidence he's been passed up due to a preference for getting games in to the kids of the future. 

I'm hoping the long stint in the VFL was to allow ANB to change the way he uses the ball, which he clearly needed to do, both with kicking around the ground and getting the ball out of congestion using his hands. Until he did that his disposal numbers or times in the best were irrelevant because he won't do anything at AFL level if he's not using it better.

  On 18/07/2016 at 06:18, DeeSpencer said:

Still going with this line despite the fact we've left plenty of talented kids out of the side (Oliver, Hulett, Weeds, Stretch) and played almost everyone who's been doing well in the VFL (Matt Jones, Grimes, White)?

It's probably now time for ANB to have another shot. He should've come in based on refreshing the team after Darwin. But there's minimal evidence he's been passed up due to a preference for getting games in to the kids of the future. 

I'm hoping the long stint in the VFL was to allow ANB to change the way he uses the ball, which he clearly needed to do, both with kicking around the ground and getting the ball out of congestion using his hands. Until he did that his disposal numbers or times in the best were irrelevant because he won't do anything at AFL level if he's not using it better.

Oscar McDonald.

Jeff Garlett.

Ben Kennedy.

James Harmes.

Aaron vandenBerg.

Viv Michie.

Mitch White.

Tell me what they all have in common?

  On 18/07/2016 at 06:23, stuie said:

Oscar McDonald.

Jeff Garlett.

Ben Kennedy.

James Harmes.

Aaron vandenBerg.

Viv Michie.

Mitch White.

Tell me what they all have in common?

They are all Melbourne FC players???

Kennedy and Harmes got dropped, each played a fantastic VFL game and were back in to the team on the strength of their AFL performance in the season. For most of the year they have been consistent contributors. Harmes' speed and desire to take the game on has seen him trialled on the wing and half back, both positions were we are very short on depth.

We've talked about Garlett before and agreed it was probably the right call to put him back before his form turned around. He's inconsistent but has the ability to kick multiple goals and plays in a spot no one else on our list can. 2 goals, decent tackle stats yesterday reflect whilst otherwise playing poorly he's doing his role in some ways.

Oscar has benefited from the terrible form of Garland and Dunn. Let's remember he won a battle with Dunn for a spot in the round 1 team and since then Dunn hasn't done anything of note and Garland has also been in bad form. From all reports that terrible form hasn't stopped prior to Sunday. Meanwhile Oscar has shown some signs of improvement. 

White has been in good form for most of the year at Casey. Got his chance in round 15 once the mid year rookie spot became available.

Michie is almost certainly not part of future plans, but a lack of defensive depth saw him trialled on a back flank due to his attributes being somewhat transferable to that role and his consistent VFL form. He had a run of games and didn't do enough.

Vandenberg came back quickly from injury but has the ability to play forward and midfield and tackles players with force. He was used to that effect well in wins against Coll and Freo and against Adelaide. 

  On 18/07/2016 at 06:48, DeeSpencer said:

They are all Melbourne FC players???

Kennedy and Harmes got dropped, each played a fantastic VFL game and were back in to the team on the strength of their AFL performance in the season. For most of the year they have been consistent contributors. Harmes' speed and desire to take the game on has seen him trialled on the wing and half back, both positions were we are very short on depth.

We've talked about Garlett before and agreed it was probably the right call to put him back before his form turned around. He's inconsistent but has the ability to kick multiple goals and plays in a spot no one else on our list can. 2 goals, decent tackle stats yesterday reflect whilst otherwise playing poorly he's doing his role in some ways.

Oscar has benefited from the terrible form of Garland and Dunn. Let's remember he won a battle with Dunn for a spot in the round 1 team and since then Dunn hasn't done anything of note and Garland has also been in bad form. From all reports that terrible form hasn't stopped prior to Sunday. Meanwhile Oscar has shown some signs of improvement. 

White has been in good form for most of the year at Casey. Got his chance in round 15 once the mid year rookie spot became available.

Michie is almost certainly not part of future plans, but a lack of defensive depth saw him trialled on a back flank due to his attributes being somewhat transferable to that role and his consistent VFL form. He had a run of games and didn't do enough.

Vandenberg came back quickly from injury but has the ability to play forward and midfield and tackles players with force. He was used to that effect well in wins against Coll and Freo and against Adelaide. 

Errrr.... That's not really things in common, that's an individual run down...

What they all have in common is they got more of a senior shot than ANB with less notable VFL form.

We've gone backwards from a cultural point of view this year.

I don't know what was worse to watch in the last quarter; Garland's missed mark in the forward pocket or Dunn's kick-in go out on the full.

Should've definitely won that one.

DOGS GET THE POINT by KC from Casey

Football folklore abounds with stories of how, when there's a strong wind blowing at VU Whitten Oval, that this element alone can be the telling factor in deciding the outcome of a match of football. Of course, the better side will usually be the winner and the scoreboard indicates that Footscray scored more often against the Scorpions but the tale of the game was told when the Dogs kicked their first goal at 11 minutes into the game after trailing by 19 points and again with their second late in time on in the first quarter after trailing by 27 points.

They were the only two goals kicked against the wind all day and, although it was early when the breeze was not as later in the day, it was enough to swing the balance of the game in their favour.

Casey failed to make the most of the advantage at the opening and then failed to kick a goal in both quarters against the wind. The Scorpions had very few opportunities to do so but in the last, a missed shot from Paul Pattison from close range and a spilled mark (difficult in the trying conditions) by Colin Garland could have made the difference.

Naturally, the game ebbed and flowed according to who had the advantage and by and large, neither team could do so after quarter time. The Bulldogs led by 17 points at the main break but this was turned on its head by the Scorpions' eight goal third term. 

Notwithstanding, defending a 30 point lead with half an hour to go was always going to be a tough ask but Casey defended strongly until a few errors during a late surge saw a match-winning behind after a Scorpions kick went out on the full with less than a minute remaining.

Game, set and match.

Scorpions' midfielder Alex Neal-Bullen was fanatical with his great ball-winning efforts to finish with 37 disposals. Lynden Dunn was tireless throughout the game, as was fellow defender Colin Garland. Tom Bugg was solid and Jake Spencer indefatigable in the ruck. Tim Smith booted three goals, two of them late in the third term and Dylan Collis did well. 

The Scorpions were hit by some late "outs" after Josh Wagner was called up to replace Sam Frost at Melbourne and Chris Dawes withdrew. 

The team has been off the boil in recent weeks with little chance of gaining consistency due to the bye situation. Casey has dropped to third on the latter and could crash further unless it takes the points at home this week against the Zebras.

Casey Scorpions   5.3.33 5.4.34 13.4.82 13.5.83

Footscray 2.0.12 8.3.51 8.4.52 12.12.84

Goals
 
Casey Scorpions Smith 3 Newton 2 Bugg Michie Neal-Bullen Pattison Pedersen Spencer  Terlich Trengove

Footscray Dale 4 Minson Staley 2 Dalgleish Hamling Russell Tashevski-Beckwith

Best

Casey Scorpions Neal-Bullen Smith Dunn Bugg Collis Michie

Footscray Dale Russell Honeychurch Adcock Barry Minson

Statistics

Here are the match stats:-

Tomas Bugg 1 goals 15 disposals 3 kicks 12 handballs 11  tackles 77 dream team points

Lynden Dunn 26 disposals 17 kicks 9 handballs 5 marks 2 tackles 93 dream team points

Colin Garland 26 disposals 15 kicks 11 handballs 7 marks 6 tackles 109 dream team points

Liam Hulett 11 disposals 10 kicks 1 handballs 3 marks 2 tackles 49 dream team points

Viv Michie 1 goal 23 disposals 13 kicks 10 handballs 3 marks 3 tackles 1 hit out 82 dream team points

Alex Neal-Bullen 1 goal 1 behind 37 disposals 19 kicks 18 handballs 2 marks 4 tackles 124 dream team points

Ben Newton 2 goals 1 behind 20 disposals 10 kicks 10 handballs 5 marks 7 tackles 103 dream team points

Clayton Oliver 24 disposals 12 kicks 12 handballs 3 marks 7 tackles 2 hit outs 90 dream team points

Cam Pedersen 1 goal 12 disposals 6 kicks 6 handballs 4 marks 5 tackles 17 hit outs 80 dream team points

Jake Spencer 1 goal 20 disposals 8 kicks 12 handballs 3 marks 7 tackles 44 hit outs 139 dream team points

Dean Terlich 1 goal 5 disposals 4 kicks 1 handballs 1 marks 4 tackles 37 dream team points

Jack Trengove 1 goal 22 disposals 13 kicks 9 handballs 3 marks 8 tackles 2 hit outs 104 dream team points

Sam Weideman 12 disposals 5 kicks 7 handballs 4 marks 3 tackles 50 dream team points

The Development League team won by 70 points after leading by as much as 94 during the final quarter and is now in with a chance of making the finals after a slow start to the season.

Casey Scorpions 5.4.34 8.9.57 12.10.82 16.14.110

Werribee 1.2.8 2.3.15 2.4.16 6.4.40

Goals

Casey Scorpions Baker Fritsch Hannon Wilson 2 D Collis Cotte Di Pasquale Freeman McDonald McInerney  Smith  Stockdale    

Werribee Corbett 3 Mahony 2 Barrack

Best

Casey Scorpions Ferreira Cox Wilson McInerney Wyatt

Werribee Corbett Meredith Williams Iles Barrack Daw

  On 17/07/2016 at 11:16, bing181 said:

Hard to know what to make of some of those numbers. Bugg 15 possessions isn't great, but he topped the tackles with 11. Trengove and Oliver good all-round games it seems. ANB a lot of possessions, but wonder what happened to them.

Only 2 inside 50s. 

  On 18/07/2016 at 06:52, stuie said:

Errrr.... That's not really things in common, that's an individual run down...

What they all have in common is they got more of a senior shot than ANB with less notable VFL form.

We've gone backwards from a cultural point of view this year.

The individual run down was explaining on a case by case basis why they've had more of a shot.

Some guys have shown better AFL form than ANB did in his 2 games and then played fantastic VFL games when dropped. The other guys play in different positions.

Trengove got 3 games. Newton got 2. Depth inside midfielders without a lot of strings to their bow are going to struggle for games given Viney, Jones, Tyson have all been healthy and Oliver was first choice at the start of the year.

Absolutely rubbish that ANB has been a victim of a culture of not rewarding players or making players earn selection.

And we certainly haven't gone backwards. Remember last year when Howe played every week getting shuffled forward and back depending on where he was less useless? Or when Watts dropped himself then came back straight back in.  Or Matt Jones, Bail, Michie and Riley were in and out every 3rd week?

We haven't come as far as we would like because the depth is still thin and performances and still inconsistent.

Here are the match stats:-

Tomas Bugg 1 goals 15 disposals 3 kicks 12 handballs 11  tackles 77 dream team points

Lynden Dunn 26 disposals 17 kicks 9 handballs 5 marks 2 tackles 93 dream team points

Colin Garland 26 disposals 15 kicks 11 handballs 7 marks 6 tackles 109 dream team points

Liam Hulett 11 disposals 10 kicks 1 handballs 3 marks 2 tackles 49 dream team points

Viv Michie 1 goal 23 disposals 13 kicks 10 handballs 3 marks 3 tackles 1 hit out 82 dream team points

Alex Neal-Bullen 1 goal 1 behind 37 disposals 19 kicks 18 handballs 2 marks 4 tackles 124 dream team points

Ben Newton 2 goals 1 behind 20 disposals 10 kicks 10 handballs 5 marks 7 tackles 103 dream team points

Clayton Oliver 24 disposals 12 kicks 12 handballs 3 marks 7 tackles 2 hit outs 90 dream team points

Cam Pedersen 1 goal 12 disposals 6 kicks 6 handballs 4 marks 5 tackles 17 hit outs 80 dream team points

Jake Spencer 1 goal 20 disposals 8 kicks 12 handballs 3 marks 7 tackles 44 hit outs 139 dream team points

Dean Terlich 1 goal 5 disposals 4 kicks 1 handballs 1 marks 4 tackles 37 dream team points

Jack Trengove 1 goal 22 disposals 13 kicks 9 handballs 3 marks 8 tackles 2 hit outs 104 dream team points

Sam Weideman 12 disposals 5 kicks 7 handballs 4 marks 3 tackles 50 dream team points

  On 17/07/2016 at 23:47, stuie said:

 

Yeah you guys are right, why would we play a guy who consistently racks up big numbers (37 touches and a goal in a tight game) when the AFL team is going so well...

Let's just keep picking the same guys every week and win our 6-8 games every year and just be happy with that. Rah rah, Go Dees!

Yeah I agree. Get Michie in. 

  On 18/07/2016 at 10:02, Samael said:

Yeah I agree. Get Michie in. 

Yeah cos that's who I was talking about....

 

  On 18/07/2016 at 11:18, stuie said:

Yeah cos that's who I was talking about....

 

The same holds true though, doesn't? Michie will receive his DCM and the Casey B&F at about the same time later this year. If you want people to believe your logic, you should be campaigning for him too.

  On 18/07/2016 at 11:34, Nasher said:

The same holds true though, doesn't? Michie will receive his DCM and the Casey B&F at about the same time later this year. 

It should (and I am the furthest thing from a Michie fan). That's been my problem this year though, it just seems like the whole culture/competition for spots thing we brought in under Roos has been massively inconsistent this year and to my eyes it's created a problem with consistency of effort and "hunger" in the seniors.

Some players have to bang down the door for 6 weeks before getting 1 token game, whereas others plod around for a week and go straight back into the seniors, and I just don't think we're a good enough team culturally to be able to withstand that. I get the argument about talent and credits in the bank, but to me, that's for more proven teams.

 

  On 18/07/2016 at 10:01, DeeSpencer said:

The individual run down was explaining on a case by case basis why they've had more of a shot.

Some guys have shown better AFL form than ANB did in his 2 games and then played fantastic VFL games when dropped. The other guys play in different positions.

Trengove got 3 games. Newton got 2. Depth inside midfielders without a lot of strings to their bow are going to struggle for games given Viney, Jones, Tyson have all been healthy and Oliver was first choice at the start of the year.

Absolutely rubbish that ANB has been a victim of a culture of not rewarding players or making players earn selection.

And we certainly haven't gone backwards. Remember last year when Howe played every week getting shuffled forward and back depending on where he was less useless? Or when Watts dropped himself then came back straight back in.  Or Matt Jones, Bail, Michie and Riley were in and out every 3rd week?

We haven't come as far as we would like because the depth is still thin and performances and still inconsistent.

I appreciate your in depth look at the players, I honestly do, and I get where you're coming from and can see how it makes sense, but from a cultural perspective I think we have gone backwards this year. We've gone into our shells at selection and we've seen an inconsistent effort and energy from the team every week which I attribute to the lack of genuine competition for regular spots.

 

KC

Did Hulett just "have a bad one"? 

It sounded like he may get a run or two in the AFL towards the end of the season - does this look likely?

Has it been something like three byes in 5 or 6 weeks?  How can a team gain any momentum in such circumstances?

  On 18/07/2016 at 11:44, stuie said:

I appreciate your in depth look at the players, I honestly do, and I get where you're coming from and can see how it makes sense, but from a cultural perspective I think we have gone backwards this year. We've gone into our shells at selection and we've seen an inconsistent effort and energy from the team every week which I attribute to the lack of genuine competition for regular spots.

 

I'll agree we haven't gone forward but disagree that we've gone backwards. 

You think competition for spots would increase with picking purely on form in the VFL/AFL side. I think you have to pick players to fulfil the roles and positions which means it's not always so black and white. We both agree it's not ideal and more talent would help!

Roos has talked selection at a lost of post game press conferences and it might be the only time his disagreement with Goodwin or others in the coaching team has shown itself. Certainly it's annoying hearing him talk about bringing in fresh legs and not doing it. Sometimes I think he's focused too much on stability but I understand that as stability really was his mandate when he took the job.

I'm also a fan of the way Clarkson throws kids in early to the 21st/22nd spot in the team for a taste and rotates them through. That's a smarter long term play than sticking to the exact best 22 mantra. But there should be integrity in selection for most of the side. 

  On 18/07/2016 at 15:02, DeeSpencer said:

I'll agree we haven't gone forward but disagree that we've gone backwards. 

You think competition for spots would increase with picking purely on form in the VFL/AFL side. I think you have to pick players to fulfil the roles and positions which means it's not always so black and white. We both agree it's not ideal and more talent would help!

Roos has talked selection at a lost of post game press conferences and it might be the only time his disagreement with Goodwin or others in the coaching team has shown itself. Certainly it's annoying hearing him talk about bringing in fresh legs and not doing it. Sometimes I think he's focused too much on stability but I understand that as stability really was his mandate when he took the job.

I'm also a fan of the way Clarkson throws kids in early to the 21st/22nd spot in the team for a taste and rotates them through. That's a smarter long term play than sticking to the exact best 22 mantra. But there should be integrity in selection for most of the side. 

Yeah good calls mate. Might all be part of the whole change over growing pains I guess.

Just frustrating to see the lack of progress between last year and this.

Thanks for those stats WJ greatly appreciated as always, looks like we had some pretty good efforts against the Dog's, losing by a point is a real bummer, but enough efforts there to allow for a bit of a freshen up against the weagles if the coaches want to go that way. Maybe Spencer in to give Gawn'y a chop out and rotate forward and Dunn or Garland to help out down back?? The Eagles are Bigger and Stronger than us and can play the game for 4 quarters, our only hope is to kick a lot of goals early on and then pray for rain... !! Casey get a few back this week as well Salem, Smith, Frost, Dawes and Kennedy-Harris. Go Scorps Go Dee's!!!!