33 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

How is black widow a sexist term? How does it differ to calling Hogan the Hulk or Stringer the Package?

27 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

Good of you to back pedal, but your attack on 'lefties' above is way off the mark.   Where do you think support for gay rights in the Christian West came from originally, the Tories?  Ha!

People forget that when many of us were young, even teetering into old age, being gay was illegal in western Christian countries.  These lefties you accuse of hypocrisy were ridiculed for their support of gay and other minority rights.  The usual response from conservatives was "Just those bloody commies trying to subvert society again".  And where do you find the most atheists who have no truck with conservative religions of any stripe, and medieval versions of them in particular?  But just because lefties aren't prepared to jettison hard-won human rights as readily as some others, we hear this sort of rubbish from the right. I know of no leftie who isn't totally appalled at the upsurge of medieval interpretations of Islam.  This pretence that "you won't hear a word from the left" is just garbage to support right wing politics in general.

I'm off back to the football.

 

Biffen and Stuie - give it a break before you both get banned for a very long time.

39 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

 

13 minutes ago, rjay said:

Nor from the right if it suits their agenda and profit motive particularly where oil is involved.

The west as a whole, left or right have been guilty of sweeping this under the rug and siding with regimes who promote the horrendous acts you talk about.

 

So what have you two done to try and change the above situations, anything? Attend demonstrations, helped fund political alternatives, voted neither left of right Or you just sit behind a keyboard

33 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

So what have you two done to try and change the above situations, anything? Attend demonstrations, helped fund political alternatives, voted neither left of right Or you just sit behind a keyboard

Opened the door for you....

Do worry ppl, in a weeks time the media will find some other story and this whole saga will be forgotten, in fact it is already happening.

12 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not before he was tracked down, apparently has been reported to police. Perhaps not smart to link your Twitter and Linkedin accounts.

Still, you wonder (or not) how much of this kind of abuse goes on unacknowledged every single day, and just on Twitter. Having to comfort your 18 year old daughter who has just been groped in a crowded train carriage doesn't give me much tolerance for the "it's just a joke" brigade. Respect for women starts with the way we talk about/to them.

This is it in a nutshell.

Respect.

How many of the people tuning in to football broadcasts are impressionable young kids.

The attitude of this demographic needs to be shaped now and the broadcasters have a role to play.

 

 

58 minutes ago, olisik said:

How is black widow a sexist term? How does it differ to calling Hogan the Hulk or Stringer the Package?

A female who feeds off of the mental, physical and material means of a male and then leaves him for dead.

A woman who sucks the life out of a male just like a black widow spider does, and then kills him after having her way with him.

Take your pick.

20 minutes ago, rjay said:

Opened the door for you....

Que?.....just get a bit bored with people who constantly bemoan situations and do absolutely nothing to try and change them   Dazzle you listening besides liking?

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Que?.....just get a bit bored with people who constantly bemoan situations and do absolutely nothing to try and change them   Dazzle you listening besides liking?

Nah

5 minutes ago, Spirit of 26 said:

A female who feeds off of the mental, physical and material means of a male and then leaves him for dead.

A woman who sucks the life out of a male just like a black widow spider does, and then kills him after having her way with him.

Take your pick.

Yes i knew someone just like that in 2004-5

the most deceitfulGold digger i will ever know. 

What a piece of work she was....

12 minutes ago, Spirit of 26 said:

A female who feeds off of the mental, physical and material means of a male and then leaves him for dead.

A woman who sucks the life out of a male just like a black widow spider does, and then kills him after having her way with him.

Take your pick.

Also an awesome super hero, just like the Hulk....

so calling her black widow is sexist but her calling Hogan the Hulk isn't? Double standards much?

Its a nickname, many people have them. Hell even Watts even referred to Petracca as the Beast. Imagine he referred to Caroline as that. 

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by olisik

6 minutes ago, olisik said:

Also an awesome super hero, just like the Hulk....

so calling her black widow is sexist but her calling Hogan the Hulk isn't? Double standards much?

This is parody right? Surely...

 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I have to back pedal a bit here, because I hadn't heard the full version, which I now have.  

There was a pack mentality and there was sexism, which I originally disputed.  Once the term Black Widow was used (I hadn't been aware of that) it changed the tenet for me.  Up until then it wasn't gender specific and if it was a male journalist we wouldn't have heard a word.  Wilson is a senior journalist first and foremost in my mind, so in a professional context her gender is irrelevant.  It became relevant when particular words were used and she confirmed that she'd had similar references in the past.  The commentary is still over the top for me, but each their own and sometimes you have to push hard to enact change.  

That said, I wish those frothing at the mouth weren't so hypocritical about what they condemn and what they overlook and it's usually self-posturing lefties. 

In the Middle East gays are hanged from cranes, thrown off buildings, or (if they're lucky) imprisoned for years, but you won't hear a word from the Left.  Apostates and adulterers are murdered in the name of Islam, but not a word from the Left.  Women are subjugated, not allowed to be educated and cloaked in medieval prison outfits, but not a word from the Left (cultural relativism, you know).  Even in the West and here in Australia there are honour killings and female circumcisions, but not a word from the Left.

So spare me the sanctimonious vitriol when you remain silent on so many horrendous practices in Islam (a political ideology as mush as a religion) that permeates the West and our own country.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's a separate unrelated issue, but the hypocrisy of the Left knows no bounds.  I'm also fully aware that many posting in this thread would condemn both.

Have a great day, everyone

You've taken a secular, universal issue and turned it into a rant about the political Left and Islam.

Such a shame, because I was in real admiration up to the end of the second paragraph.

Then you went completely rogue.

Weird, because I think you'll find that people who don't care about the abuses of women in Islam are from both sides of politics - it's not a Left/Right issue. 

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes i knew someone just like that in 2004-5

the most deceitfulGold digger i will ever know. 

What a piece of work she was....

Maybe that's where your women issues come from.

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

This is parody right? Surely...

 

The commotion is. People are dying in the world yet caro being called black widow makes front page news.

 

I haven't read all of this thread so this may have already been mentioned, but I can't understand why there so many journos now putting in their two bob's worth and canning McGuire when they were silent on the issue for days after he said what he said. 

I don't condone it and I'm not a big fan of his but it seems as if this is, to a certain extent, a chance by some to stick the boots in. 

Where was the moral outrage on the Tuesday or Wednesday and why are some journos only now writing articles about it? There seems to be a new article every time I go online on the Age site and rather than cooling down, like one poster mentioned above, this seems to be growing to epic proportions.  

He was wrong and we all know that, he has apologized and we all know that, has Caro accepted his apology, not sure about that. I'm finding it difficult to sort the genuine outrage from the journos just out for a free kick.

1 hour ago, olisik said:

How is black widow a sexist term? How does it differ to calling Hogan the Hulk or Stringer the Package?

Can't believe I'm taking time out of my day to explain this to such a simpleton.

'Black widow' is a very old, well known label to attach to a woman that is seen as spiteful or a range of other things. There is a huge negative stigma underlying calling someone that, which the person attaching the label doesn't need to repeat to get the message across.

Players nicknames are usually given in a positive way with an underlying tone of mateship and admiration. If not, it's just as much bullying as calling someone a black widow. 

For example, if you call a mate 'fatso', and attach that label in a negative way that makes the person uncomfortable, that's bullying. If you call him the Hulk, or the Beast (which have positive connotations in a male dominated environment, it's probably not.

Your ignorance is amazing.

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by Undeeterred

2 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Can't believe I'm taking time out of my day to explain this to such a simpleton.

'Black widow' is a very old, well known label to attach to a woman that is seen as spiteful or a range of other things. There is a huge negative stigma underlying calling someone that, which the person attaching the label doesn't need to repeat to get the message across.

Players nicknames are usually given in a positive way with an underlying tone of mateship and admiration. If not, it's just as much bullying as calling someone a black widow. 

For example, if you call a mate 'fatso' (that's a negative word, just so we're clear), that's bullying. If you call him the Hulk, or the Beast (which have positive connotations in a male dominated environment, it's probably not.

Your ignorance is amazing.

My generation sees black widow as an awesome Marvel superhero...so why are people coming to the conclusion that he meant the old meaning and not the new one? 

Sam Newman calls Billy Brownless 'Fat' on TV every Thursday night. Why isn't that front page news?

Edited June 21, 20169 yr by olisik

5 minutes ago, olisik said:

The commotion is. People are dying in the world yet caro being called black widow makes front page news.

You're right, women are dying, from domestic violence, at the rate of more than 3 times the amount as men...

 

5 minutes ago, olisik said:

Also an awesome super hero, just like the Hulk....

so calling her black widow is sexist but her calling Hogan the Hulk isn't? Double standards much?

Its sexist because by definition it only applies to the female sex. Female black widow spiders engage in sexual cannibalism, a behavior in which the female eats the male after mating, hence the name "widow spiders".

If the use of the term black widow is used in context to be demeaning, insulting or derogatory, then, yes it is sexist.

Just how, in context, does calling Hogan the Hulk demeaning, insulting or derogatory. In context it implies he is of great strength, superhuman and physically fit (if you combine both the cartoon Hulk and the wrestler Hulk Hogan).

1 minute ago, Undeeterred said:

Can't believe I'm taking time out of my day to explain this to such a simpleton.

'Black widow' is a very old, well known label to attach to a woman that is seen as spiteful or a range of other things. There is a huge negative stigma underlying calling someone that, which the person attaching the label doesn't need to repeat to get the message across.

Players nicknames are usually given in a positive way with an underlying tone of mateship and admiration. If not, it's just as much bullying as calling someone a black widow. 

For example, if you call a mate 'fatso', and attach that label in a negative way that makes the person uncomfortable, that's bullying. If you call him the Hulk, or the Beast (which have positive connotations in a male dominated environment, it's probably not.

Your ignorance is amazing.

Eddie has also called her a "perfumed scorpion" amongst other things.

You'd think a guy with his media experience would know better. Shows that experience doesn't equate wisdom.

Eddie and co did not need to resort to what amounts to personal attacks of the lowest order on Caroline Wilson.

I've disagreed with a lot of what she's said and done in the past and the way to respond is by reasoned argument and not cowardly ad hominem attacks.

The same applies to some of the comments from posters here - please stick to the subject and leave your personal grievances with others out of this forum.

5 minutes ago, stuie said:

You're right, women are dying, from domestic violence, at the rate of more than 3 times the amount as men...

 

Then report on direct incidents of that.

Not when a journalist cries poor over being given a nickname. 

Just now, olisik said:

Then report on direct incidents of that.

Not when a journalist cries poor over being given a nickname. 

You're not getting that it all sits within the same culture and context.