1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

How and from where do you know this?

I have not read it anywhere.

Its been reported here several times. Pro Dee broke the news first now everyone tries to run with it.

I've no idea if we're 'into' this bloke or that. I don't run in those circles but it would surprise me if we aren't always looking around. All teams must.

I don't accept that Tom McDonald is not in the 'heat'. The backline is about as stressful as it gets, and clangers are made by all players fairly regularly.

It would be just like supporters here to take a strong, developed player with 80-90 games and want to trade them out for a draft pick. Like drafting is some sort of game.

No team has a player who is 100% perfect.

McDonald's best is as good as any defender, the problem is he needs good players around him to limit the brain fades and skill errors.

Tom McDonald's problem is that he simply hasn't improved his decision making and disposal since he first entered the club. Now the former can generally be improved, but the latter whilst there are elements which can be tinkered with, if you don't have natural ability, you simply won't become a good AFL footy player.

Disposal is a fundamental part of the game and if you are generally poor, then you will only be an average player. McDonald is not alone on this, as there are still several players' on our list with "questionable" disposal. The only thing saving him is his attitude, which you cannot fault him on as he gives 100%.

Hogan is a type where you would just about give him what he wants, McDonald is not. 

Ultimately i would love to get Hurley in to take the responsibility of FB. McDonald is a great overhead mark and would do very well as a 2nd/3rd tall defender coming over the top and taking pack marks (similar to Rivers').

On 5/8/2016 at 7:03 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

How and from where do you know this?

I have not read it anywhere.

A source out of  Richmond, we expressed some interest in Hooker as well, an experienced key position defender is certainly something we're really keen on bringing into the club, which is probably not a great sign for Dunn or Garland. 

The Hurley chase is being led by Goodwin and Macca

It's a unique situation with Essendon where we can bring in an A grade player potentially without having to trade for them, and most if not all of these guys are going to consider leaving imo, some might stay but at least 1 of their guns will leave again imo.

 

4 hours ago, mauriesy said:

I don't accept that Tom McDonald is not in the 'heat'. The backline is about as stressful as it gets, and clangers are made by all players fairly regularly.

It would be just like supporters here to take a strong, developed player with 80-90 games and want to trade them out for a draft pick. Like drafting is some sort of game.

No team has a player who is 100% perfect.

It's not so much, for mine, about the heat. By its very nature defenders only really come into play when the opposition is UP. 

The problem as I see it is that other than covering a FWD and spoiling , which in the main Tom is quite accomplished at there comes the next action, disposal and rebounding to advantage. It's this moment ol Tommy seems to muck up (still ) It can be a poorly directed or weighted kick, or a run without real awareness or more point the limits of his skill here.

Result . turnover > opposition scores.

It's just poor thinking.

If he can fix this, great. If not does the liability negate his usefulness ?

Until he can show distinct improvement I would be inno rush to paperwork.

All the roles of the team need to be done well. Any weaknesses scuttle the move upward.

I just don't get the hate for McDonald

2015

4th for disposals

3rd for kicks

1st for marks

5th for contested possessions

4th for uncontested possessions

1st for intercept possessions.......Has played 89 games

Yes he has a few brain fades but at least he tries to get the ball moving (not always successful) and tries to run the ball out of defence (What every body cries out for)

Some of our more popular players make some mindboggling mistakes but not a bloody word is said.

Get off his back.   

3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

McDonald's best is as good as any defender, the problem is he needs good players around him to limit the brain fades and skill errors.

His best is as good as any 'elite' key defender absolutely.

But his worst is worse than any of the 'elite' key defenders in the comp.

And that, is the problem.

Bridge the gap and there's no debate.

Edited May 9, 20169 yr by stevethemanjordan

2 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

I just don't get the hate for McDonald

2015

4th for disposals

3rd for kicks

1st for marks

5th for contested possessions

4th for uncontested possessions

1st for intercept possessions.......Has played 89 games

Yes he has a few brain fades but at least he tries to get the ball moving (not always successful) and tries to run the ball out of defence (What every body cries out for)

Some of our more popular players make some mindboggling mistakes but not a bloody word is said.

Get off his back.   

And they're discussed in other threads.

This is about Tmac. His ability, his definitely, his ego and place going fwd. 

Melbourne is WAY bigger than this one player. 

He'd be happy to play mercenary... So am I

On 5/9/2016 at 1:27 PM, stevethemanjordan said:

His best is as good as any 'elite' key defender absolutely.

But his worst is worse than any of the 'elite' key defenders in the comp.

And that, is the problem.

Bridge the gap and there's no debate.

His defensive efforts might keep his opponent goalless but that's worth very little if his bad turnovers cost us 2-3 goals a game the other way, absolutely kills momentum when you're out and a bloke makes a bad skill error.

that for me is the biggest worry, so many attacks are launched from the half back line these days and one of the players we rely on to start those attacks consistently makes basic skill errors. 

1 hour ago, Peter Griffen said:

A source out of  Richmond, we expressed some interest in Hooker as well, an experienced key position defender is certainly something we're really keen on bringing into the club, which is probably not a great sign for Dunn or Garland. 

The Hurley chase is being led by Goodwin and Macca

It's a unique situation with Essendon where we can bring in an A grade player potentially without having to trade for them, and most if not all of these guys are going to consider leaving imo, some might stay but at least 1 of their guns will leave again imo.

 

We're also in a uniquely strong position to entice these guys over due to Goodwin and McCartney's involvement.

Just going to bring this one up again. I did admit a few weeks ago that we should probably just back in our development programs to eradicate McDonald's flaws. However, if we could get an A grader in return, I'd do the trade. Tommy's a good player, but his flaws and market value make him tradable, IMO. 

Just now, AdamFarr said:

Just going to bring this one up again. I did admit a few weeks ago that we should probably just back in our development programs to eradicate McDonald's flaws. However, if we could get an A grader in return, I'd do the trade. Tommy's a good player, but his flaws and market value make him tradable, IMO. 

Who is this 'A grader' of which you speak?  I don't see many clubs offering up A grade, key position defenders all the time.

I know we are keen on Hurley but there is no guarantee that he ends up leaving.  Outside of him, who would be available that would be an upgrade on Tom?

8 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Who is this 'A grader' of which you speak?  I don't see many clubs offering up A grade, key position defenders all the time.

I know we are keen on Hurley but there is no guarantee that he ends up leaving.  Outside of him, who would be available that would be an upgrade on Tom?

Prestia, for example. I think we need role players down back like Hawthorn have built a dynasty on the back of and continue strengthening our midfield.

Just now, AdamFarr said:

Prestia, for example. I think we need role players down back like Hawthorn have built a dynasty on the back of and continue strengthening our midfield.

I'm all for Prestia, but again, it's about list balance too.  Role players are fine IF we can find them.  Some work, others don't.  We would need these role players to show that they can hold down a position in our backline before we trade someone like McDonald away.

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm all for Prestia, but again, it's about list balance too.  Role players are fine IF we can find them.  Some work, others don't.  We would need these role players to show that they can hold down a position in our backline before we trade someone like McDonald away.

Agreed. You probably don't trade away someone like McDonald without having a back up for him, but that's why I'll be fascinated to see how a bloke like Frost goes in the second half of the season. If he can nail down a spot back there and we can get a favourable deal with an A grade mid like Prestia, I'd do it.

Frost ... he's got pace but is not good overhead and doesn't read the play all that well (on what we've seen)  Not sure he's much of a kick either and he doesn't get it enough to be able to judge his decision making.  Doesn't get to enough contests.

However, it's still early doors and he should be given more opportunities, all the same.  We won't have much choice - we're going to be coming up against some tall forward lines so Frost & O-Mac will get their chances.  Dunn needs to lift big time and there's no one else apart from Garland.  Aside from all that, the match committee haven't been all that interested in using Frost down back anyway.  Perhaps Pedersen could be tried down back but the off-season may provide more of the answers.

The MC are probably hoping the Diamond zone defence will cure our ills but again, it remains to be seen whether that can work or whether we can make it work with the personnel that we have.  If we get to 10+ wins it will tell us a story in terms of what we need and who we no longer need.  Those wins will answer some questions but the losses will pose other questions. 

I wouldn't be trading out T-Mac ... he's the only decent proven KPD that is on the list.  And we need at least 2 more.  Perhaps it's best to have 4 decent tall defenders on a list (given the injury factor and loss of form factor)  We really need Dunn to get back to his best form.

Edited May 21, 20169 yr by Macca

24 minutes ago, Macca said:

Frost ... he's got pace but is not good overhead and doesn't read the play all that well (on what we've seen)  Not sure he's much of a kick either and he doesn't get it enough to be able to judge his decision making.  Doesn't get to enough contests.

However, it's still early doors and he should be given more opportunities, all the same.  We won't have much choice - we're going to be coming up against some tall forward lines so Frost & O-Mac will get their chances.  Dunn needs to lift big time and there's no one else (in the tall KPD area)  Apart from all that, the match committee haven't been all that interested in using Frost down back anyway.  Perhaps Pedersen could be tried down back but the off-season may provide more of the answers.

The MC are probably hoping the Diamond zone defence will cure our ills but again, it remains to be seen whether that can work or whether we can make it work with the personnel that we have.  If we get to 10 wins it will tell us a story in terms of what we need and who we no longer need.  Those wins will answer some questions but the losses will pose other questions. 

I wouldn't be trading out T-Mac ... he's the only decent proven KPD that is on the list.  And we need 2 more.

Yep, fair enough. I think if we can limit turn overs off half back and our midfield gets stronger, it puts less reliance on KPDs. That's where the game is going, IMO. Obviously, we will need to replace Tom if we traded him, but if you improve your midfield, your team improves and the flow on effect to attracting opposition KPDs is higher.

Edited May 21, 20169 yr by AdamFarr

Just now, AdamFarr said:

Yep, fair enough. I think if we can limit turn overs off half back and our midfield gets stronger, it puts less reliance on KPDs. That's where the gam is going, IMO. Obviously, we will need to replace Tom if we traded him, but if you improve your midfield, your team improves and the flow on effect to attracting opposition KPDs is higher.

The answer is a complex one - our smaller backs don't feed off T-Mac enough ... they should be either hovering around him for the quick handball or sprinting to position to create an easier transition out of defence.  We're often too static. 

A fast moving target can eliminate slow decision making - all our players (not just T-Mac) need to make quicker decisions but they all need to have more options who are on the move.  The best teams move the ball on instinctively at speed.

Plus, as you intimated, when our midfield is outpointed, our defence is then often under siege. 

I would be looking for a second tall to complement TMac rather than trading him, he is a durable type player that doesn't seem to have to many hang up's and still young enough to modify, we would have leaked a lot more goals this year without his strong marking in the back half. I say keep him sign him and continue to improve him.

2 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Just going to bring this one up again. I did admit a few weeks ago that we should probably just back in our development programs to eradicate McDonald's flaws. However, if we could get an A grader in return, I'd do the trade. Tommy's a good player, but his flaws and market value make him tradable, IMO. 

I'd rather keep McDonald and bring in another quality KPD to take the #1 mantle off him, would do him and the team a world of good.

I do admit not having read one post here but seriously, which Titan of Demonland is flogging this proposition ????

to quote Dr Evil.   ........" How about noooooo you crazy.............." 

Mc Donald is a keeper. 

13 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I would be looking for a second tall to complement TMac rather than trading him, 

Yes, he needs support.   Trading him out would be stupid unless you get a gun key back in return which wont happen.

13 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I would be looking for a second tall to complement TMac rather than trading him, he is a durable type player that doesn't seem to have to many hang up's and still young enough to modify, we would have leaked a lot more goals this year without his strong marking in the back half. I say keep him sign him and continue to improve him.

Id be looking for a Number 1 defender. Tom isnt this