Would absolutely be throwing a lot at this fella. 

Clearly we need a FB who can perform consistently well.

Dunn and Garland are the last of the 'problem players' who are seemingly incapable of change. 

Hurley and T-Mac, ([censored]-together provided) will mean we have a consistent FB and CHB for years to come. 

It's the positions around those two that are also extremely important and at present are a shambles. 

Hurley for Mc Donald sounds OK to me!

Apparently we threw the kitchen sink at Hooker before he re-signed with the Dons.

According to Slobbo, only Pears and Howlett will be elsewhere next year for Essendon.

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Would absolutely be throwing a lot at this fella. 

Clearly we need a FB who can perform consistently well.

Dunn and Garland are the last of the 'problem players' who are seemingly incapable of change. 

Hurley and T-Mac, ([censored]-together provided) will mean we have a consistent FB and CHB for years to come. 

It's the positions around those two that are also extremely important and at present are a shambles. 

 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Hurley for Mc Donald sounds OK to me!

Would love to know what the FD thinks of McDonald's development at the moment.

He's a bloke who's played 88 games now. At the top of last year he looked to be in terrific form. He'd cut down his errors and appeared to be sticking to his limitations. His season then ran off the tracks a bit, as did our whole team's. What does that say about the importance of him to our team, but also the importance of those players in front of him bringing the required work rate to make his job easier? 

I suspect they'd say he's still only young, not necessarily in a games sense, but in footballing terms. 23 years old for KPD is still very young. It will also take him time to adjust to the new defensive zone - when should he fill space/take an opponent and when should he attack. His decision making wouldn't have been improved by our more risk-taking game style, as he often finds himself in a situation where he feels he needs to bite off more than he can chew. So the question will eventually be asked. Does McDonald fit into this system?

The other element of all this is the players around him. If you look at Hawthorn's defensive unit, none of them are brilliant one-on-one, but their understanding of each other and the roles they each play cannot be questioned. At Melbourne this season, there have been times where McDonald's kicking has looked really, really solid. But is this because his team mates have been working hard enough to give him a clear option, that minimises the potential of a turn over and makes that kick or handball a lot easier to manage? Or is McDonald simply too inconsistent with his disposal and no matter how hard his team mates work, he'll always have the propensity to turn it over and cost us goals?

If the latter is true, I can't see him holding down a KD position in the future. But I suspect the FD feels the former is true and that with time, Tommy Mac will grow into this system, make solid decisions, know where his team mates are and become a defensive lynchpin.

McDonald's turn overs have always frustrated me, but throughout Roos' tenure, I've had Tommy marked down as a certainty in a future best 22. However, his form at the back end of last year and already in 2016 is far too inconsistent and if it continues this way, I wouldn't be adversed to the club floating him for trade at the end of 2017.

This therefore opens up another fascinating subplot to watch unfold this year. Injury-permitting, he'll play his 100th this year. But can Tommy iron out the flaws in his game and become a consistent player? If he does, we'll play finals. I have no doubt. If he doesn't, there will be a number of question marks floating above our preferred back 6 for 2017.

Edited May 2, 20169 yr by AdamFarr

Interesting comments Adam, so would you enetertain this trade?? Hurley for Mc Donald??

16 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

 

Would love to know what the FD thinks of McDonald's development at the moment.

He's a bloke who's played 88 games now. At the top of last year he looked to be in terrific form. He'd cut down his errors and appeared to be sticking to his limitations. His season then ran off the tracks a bit, as did our whole team's. What does that say about the importance of him to our team, but also the importance of those players in front of him bringing the required work rate to make his job easier? 

I suspect they'd say he's still only young, not necessarily in a games sense, but in footballing terms. 23 years old for KPD is still very young. It will also take him time to adjust to the new defensive zone - when should he fill space/take an opponent and when should he attack. His decision making wouldn't have been improved by our more risk-taking game style, as he often finds himself in a situation where he feels he needs to bite off more than he can chew. So the question will eventually be asked. Does McDonald fit into this system?

The other element of all this is the players around him. If you look at Hawthorn's defensive unit, none of them are brilliant one-on-one, but their understanding of each other and the roles they each play cannot be questioned. At Melbourne this season, there have been times where McDonald's kicking has looked really, really solid. But is this because his team mates have been working hard enough to give him a clear option, that minimises the potential of a turn over and makes that kick or handball a lot easier to manage? Or is McDonald simply too inconsistent with his disposal and no matter how hard his team mates work, he'll always have the propensity to turn it over and cost us goals?

If the latter is true, I can't see him holding down a KD position in the future. But I suspect the FD feels the former is true and that with time, Tommy Mac will grow into this system, make solid decisions, know where his team mates are and become a defensive lynchpin.

McDonald's turn overs have always frustrated me, but throughout Roos' tenure, I've had Tommy marked down as a certainty in a future best 22. However, his form at the back end of last year and already in 2016 is far too inconsistent and if it continues this way, I wouldn't be adversed to the club floating him for trade at the end of 2017.

This therefore opens up another fascinating subplot to watch unfold this year. Injury-permitting, he'll play his 100th this year. But can Tommy iron out the flaws in his game and become a consistent player? If he does, we'll play finals. I have no doubt. If he doesn't, there will be a number of question marks floating above our preferred back 6 for 2017.

Nice observations.

I just posted in the 'leaking defence' thread and have similar worries.

I don't believe he is the kind of player who should have the licence to run off his opponent to try and setup play in the future because of what you identify. He is far too hit and miss with his disposal and it's double trouble for a KP defender turning it over up field as their man will more than likely end up with the ball.

With where our defence is presently, it's clear he's been allowed to play that role because he is the fittest bloke at the club and we have nobody else besides Lumumba who creates the same run and attack from defence. Salem, Jetta, Dunn, Garland etc are nowhere near as fit as they need to be.

It's an area that I've wanted filled for years. A hard running and skillful half-back. Salem could be the player but he is far too unfit.

Will be interesting to see what the coaches have planned for next year.

Wondering if there are any other options out there to fill what may soon become a gaping hole at the 'true tall' defender role?

With Hurley and Hooker unlikely or sealed up, there sin't a lot of top-level key defensive talent to secure. Are ther any role players, even fairly short term, we could snag?

If Freo go full rebuild, could Michael Johnson be brought in as an end-of-career 'consultant', Daniel Cross style?

Lachlan Hansen has been North's Jack Watts for a long time. Could he be price-effective for the role even if not a world-beater?

Any chance Sam Day would like to be a full time defender for a real football club?

And aside from that, surely it is time to end the Sam Frost forward experiment and get him back to the position we all thought he was being recruited for.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Hurley for Mc Donald sounds OK to me!

Hurley is a free agent as his contract has been breached. Therefore you don't trade for him, you just have to get his signature. 

We still need to bring in 3 quality players (whether via draft or trade) before we realistically want to seriously challenge for a flag. A KPD, Ruckman and Mid.

No idea how reliable a source, but through mates of mine, I've heard he is definitely looking at other options. He'd prefer to stay in Vic, but GC wasn't off the table either (this was about 2 weeks ago.. so may have cooled on them now).

He would be one of the 12 that could demand a huge pay packet somewhere else. Not sure if we could afford Hogan and him.

McDonald and Hurley down back would be a fantastic set up. McDonald hasn't reached the lofty heights that he set in early 2015 but the guy is only 23 years old.

Inconsistency is expected from players his age and despite his current form, he's well ahead of the key defensive crop in that age group. Have faith.

Would you re-sign with Essendon after what they did? 

I'd refuse on that alone, even before you consider the state of the list and so on.

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Apparently we threw the kitchen sink at Hooker before he re-signed with the Dons.

According to Slobbo, only Pears and Howlett will be elsewhere next year for Essendon.

Oh well.....authoritative then?  ??

13 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

Would you re-sign with Essendon after what they did? 

I'd refuse on that alone, even before you consider the state of the list and so on.

ever hird heard of the stockholm syndrome?

If we did get Hurley we could free Tom MacDonald forward and solve the ruck-fwd problem - we'd be a lot better off at both ends.

Hurley will cost all the tea in China. There will be a dozen clubs throwing cash at him. I don't mind Hurley, but with a dozen of our own out of contract I think cap space needs to be used wisely to maintain list balance.

 

Would love Hurley, and i hope we make him our number 1 priority for this off season, however i wouldn't break the bank for him until we know what's happening with Hogan. Once we have the hulk signed up, that's when we can add the icing to the cake.

If Hurley knocks back our offer, then i'd look for some depth such as Lachie Hansen like another poster suggested, as Dunn and Garland look to be coming towards the end. I still think Sam Frost could become a genuine utility who could be used to plug holes forward, back, in the ruck and potentially even on a wing.

3 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

Would you re-sign with Essendon after what they did? 

I'd refuse on that alone, even before you consider the state of the list and so on.

Most will.

On 5/2/2016 at 6:18 PM, Redleg said:

Most will.

It certainly seems that way, i'm just not sure why, these blokes are missing a year of their career on the back of this club letting them down. 

I'd walk first chance i got. 

5 hours ago, picket fence said:

Interesting comments Adam, so would you enetertain this trade?? Hurley for Mc Donald??

Well, as others have pointed out, it wouldn't be a trade, but I'd certainly consider Hurley. Mind you, only for a reasonable price ($600k-700k), because we've gotta be careful with all our young gun mids. For the record, I doubt we'd get him for $600k or even $700k, unless Goodwin and McCartney pulled a rabbit out of their hat.

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Nice observations.

I just posted in the 'leaking defence' thread and have similar worries.

I don't believe he is the kind of player who should have the licence to run off his opponent to try and setup play in the future because of what you identify. He is far too hit and miss with his disposal and it's double trouble for a KP defender turning it over up field as their man will more than likely end up with the ball.

With where our defence is presently, it's clear he's been allowed to play that role because he is the fittest bloke at the club and we have nobody else besides Lumumba who creates the same run and attack from defence. Salem, Jetta, Dunn, Garland etc are nowhere near as fit as they need to be.

It's an area that I've wanted filled for years. A hard running and skillful half-back. Salem could be the player but he is far too unfit.

Will be interesting to see what the coaches have planned for next year.

I'm just not sure you can carry a bloke who does not have licence to create, otherwise you run the risk of being too predictable. And in the same moment, I'm not sure McDonald is completely capable of doing it consistently. We shall see.

4 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

We still need to bring in 3 quality players (whether via draft or trade) before we realistically want to seriously challenge for a flag. A KPD, Ruckman and Mid.

I'd disagree slightly. I reckon if we can nab two A grade mids, we'll be fine for KPD. Hawthorn played small down back for years and still managed. Even Lake wasn't that big. When your defenders work together and your midfielders and forwards apply relentless pressure, you make your defenders look so much better than they would otherwise. For example, if your defenders are left one-on-one and the opposition has unpressured disposal inside forward 50, those defenders will be made to look very ordinary.

As for a ruckman, I'll be interested to see how Spencer goes this year. I rate him and I reckon under the continued guidance of Stafford could become an important back up or foil for Max.

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

If we did get Hurley we could free Tom MacDonald forward and solve the ruck-fwd problem - we'd be a lot better off at both ends.

Tommy Mac playing in the ruck? Not for mine. 

22 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

I'd disagree slightly. I reckon if we can nab two A grade mids, we'll be fine for KPD. Hawthorn played small down back for years and still managed. Even Lake wasn't that big. When your defenders work together and your midfielders and forwards apply relentless pressure, you make your defenders look so much better than they would otherwise. For example, if your defenders are left one-on-one and the opposition has unpressured disposal inside forward 50, those defenders will be made to look very ordinary.

As for a ruckman, I'll be interested to see how Spencer goes this year. I rate him and I reckon under the continued guidance of Stafford could become an important back up or foil for Max.

Tommy Mac playing in the ruck? Not for mine. 

Actually played as the 2nd ruck a few times in his debut season a few times out at Casey and did alright.

Agree defence is probably his best position though.