Leadership

[praha 11,240]

Leadership <=> empowerment

Does Jones *empower* those around him? Maybe. But these capitulations are as much on his shoulders as the coaching department. Love him to death but maybe he is part of the problem. Not expecting him to split an atom with his bare hands but leadership is always lacking in games like that.

This team's capacity to switch on and off is astonishing. Never seen anything like it. 

I do think the gap between our best and worst has shrunk but it's still massive. After ten years, I think Jones really needs to step up and lead the way in games like this. He hasn't received anywhere near enough criticism. It was just a standard Jones game. Nothing exceptional. 

Really, it's games like yesterday why he doesn't get the respect and ranking by the football public that so many here think he deserves. He doesn't help push this team over the hump enough like great captains do.

[Mr Steve 3,820]

13 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I didn't like Paul Roos' press conference - I thought it missed the mark.

He just confused his words. He meant to say NEVER TRIED not LOOKED TIRED.

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

7 minutes ago, praha said:

Leadership <=> empowerment

Does Jones *empower* those around him? Maybe. But these capitulations are as much on his shoulders as the coaching department. Love him to death but maybe he is part of the problem. Not expecting him to split an atom with his bare hands but leadership is always lacking in games like that.

This team's capacity to switch on and off is astonishing. Never seen anything like it. 

I do think the gap between our best and worst has shrunk but it's still massive. After ten years, I think Jones really needs to step up and lead the way in games like this. He hasn't received anywhere near enough criticism. It was just a standard Jones game. Nothing exceptional. 

Really, it's games like yesterday why he doesn't get the respect and ranking by the football public that so many here think he deserves. He doesn't help push this team over the hump enough like great captains do.

Spot on Praha...

[dee-luded 2,959]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Where is it going to come from?

We sure don't have any at the moment....

culture!!!  self belief & happiness from this.

 

this is what Sheedy has instilled into the bummers club,  & yesterday walk was all about reinforcing just that.

& to think we smugly dismissed him 9 Years ago.  he could have rebuilt us twice over by now,  & maybe even had a flag ????

[Adam The God 30,214]

I've been wrong before, but I just wonder if this is that was the game that broke the camel's back and next week we'll see the team really unleash with a more attacking game style. I'm hoping Roos will know his ego failed him yesterday and that there's a big chance we will stagnate this year unless we revert to the attacking game style played over the NAB challenge and the first and fourth quarters last week.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

On Friday night, Pendlebury went into the backline and marshalled his players to start filling the gaps - it had a huge impact.

We need more onfield leaders.

We have Jonesy, but we need more....Bernie? Dawes? Garlett? 

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

if the game opened up for just 1 quarter we would have won comfortably, Woosher got exactly what he wanted, we did not win a quarter & lost by 13 points, the game style was controlled by Worsfold for 120 minutes, the players played to instruction.

its a coaching issue.

[Roger Mellie 4,009]

I thought the lack of leadership on the ground was palpable. The players started worrying about themselves. 

At half time I was expecting Jones to pull the group in together for some words before heading back to the changing rooms. I thought he should've said something along the lines of leaving this 2015 [censored] on the ground and coming back in the second half playing 2016 footy. I thought it was line in the sand time and that our line in the sand was bigger than theirs (if you will).

I wasn't at the game, but did this happen? I also don't question Jones as captain but he can't just lead by example.

[titan_uranus 24,990]

The lack of leadership when we have games like this is obvious.

I said in the post-match thread that I saw it early on. N Jones was getting the ball but instead of gut-running past opponents or focusing on fast movement, he was looking for cheap possessions out the back which caused him and the team trouble, or went for cute sideways kicks which didn't benefit the club and do not fit into our 2016 game plan.

Vince doesn't lead on field. No talk, no "follow me", he probably tells himself internally "I need to lift" but we don't see it.

Garland is supposed to be a leader in the backline but doesn't do anything other than focus on himself. 

It's this introverted, internal focus of our leaders (compared to the external leadership of players like Pendlebury, Hodge, Riewoldt) which destroys us when the chips are down.

Trengove had it, when he was captain. I hold out hope he can get his body right and return for us as I still think he has proper leadership qualities. Otherwise, I hope that Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn and Oliver can learn how not to lead from the rest.

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

27 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I thought the lack of leadership on the ground was palpable. The players started worrying about themselves. 

At half time I was expecting Jones to pull the group in together for some words before heading back to the changing rooms. I thought he should've said something along the lines of leaving this 2015 [censored] on the ground and coming back in the second half playing 2016 footy. I thought it was line in the sand time and that our line in the sand was bigger than theirs (if you will).

I wasn't at the game, but did this happen? I also don't question Jones as captain but he can't just lead by example.

Roger the usual supporters clapped them off the ground at half time....I was hoping people would be getting a little angry...

no huddle. They all just trudged off

no huddle...just resignation...

[KingDingAling 3,757]

19 hours ago, WhyAlwaysMe said:

if the game opened up for just 1 quarter we would have won comfortably, Woosher got exactly what he wanted, we did not win a quarter & lost by 13 points, the game style was controlled by Worsfold for 120 minutes, the players played to instruction.

its a coaching issue.

Yeah I noticed that. Their backline played to instructions, they were very disciplined and played to a plan. A lot of their older  heads didn't panic, they slowed the play when it was necessary, and switched the play when the time called for it. We didn't do that, we have blokes like Tom McDonald think they can run the ball out of the backline by themselves - Lumumba isn't much better. There is a lack of structure down back. We don't use Salem enough, and there seems to be no real plan.

Edited April 3, 2016 by KingDingAling

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

13 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The lack of leadership when we have games like this is obvious.

I said in the post-match thread that I saw it early on. N Jones was getting the ball but instead of gut-running past opponents or focusing on fast movement, he was looking for cheap possessions out the back which caused him and the team trouble, or went for cute sideways kicks which didn't benefit the club and do not fit into our 2016 game plan.

Vince doesn't lead on field. No talk, no "follow me", he probably tells himself internally "I need to lift" but we don't see it.

Garland is supposed to be a leader in the backline but doesn't do anything other than focus on himself. 

It's this introverted, internal focus of our leaders (compared to the external leadership of players like Pendlebury, Hodge, Riewoldt) which destroys us when the chips are down.

Trengove had it, when he was captain. I hold out hope he can get his body right and return for us as I still think he has proper leadership qualities. Otherwise, I hope that Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn and Oliver can learn how not to lead from the rest.

Bernie has shown leadership before Titan. I was suprised how ineffective he was. 

He should have rag dolled that Bomber Midfield...maybe time is catching up with his body 

[Macca 16,958]

Blaming the captain is ignoring the bigger issue ... each and every player is accountable for their own effort, energy, application and a never-say-die attitude.  Do people here want the captain to hold their collective hands?

Jones can only do so much - who captains in his place?  It's a rhetorical question because there isn't anyone else who is equipped to handle the job.  Maybe Viney in a few years but that's it.

Again, we're getting distracted from the main issue - collectively,  many of our players lack drive and ambition and too many are not self-starters.  Again, Nate Jones seems to be the only player who can consistently be 'up' for games.

And it's been that way for a long time ... the best leaders are those who don't need to be spoken to or ever given a rev up - they just get on with the business with a minimum of fuss - Jones does that but most of the rest of our players don't.

We could list most of our players with a 3 word analysis - *lacks leadership skills* ... Jones alone can't fix things. 

The reality is that we just don't come to play on a regular basis - it's above the shoulders for most of our players.  Game plans and structures are pointless if the players aren't switched on.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Blaming Jones is ignoring the bigger issue ... each and every player is accountable for their own effort, energy, application and a never-say-die attitude.  Do people here want the captain to hold their collective hands?

Jones can only do so much - who captains in his place?  It's a rhetorical question because there isn't anyone else who is equipped to handle the job.  Maybe Viney in a few years but that's it.

Again, we're getting distracted from the main issue - collectively,  many of our players lack drive and ambition and too many are not self-starters.  Again, Nate Jones seems to be the only player who can consistently be 'up' for games.

And it's been that way for a long time ... the best leaders are those who don't need to be spoken to or ever given a rev up - they just get on with the business with a minimum of fuss - Jones does that but the most of the rest of our players don't.

We could list most of our players with a 3 word analysis - *lacks leadership skills* ... Jones alone can't fix things.

Jones wasn't up for yesterday. That is part of the problem

it took us 11 minutes to get the ball in our forward 50...

stop shielding grown men from responsibility Macca...

[Macca 16,958]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jones wasn't up for yesterday. That is part of the problem

it took us 11 minutes to get the ball in our forward 50...

stop shielding grown men from responsibility Macca...

What are you on about? ... my post points the finger at most of the senior players on the list. 

We get it, you've got a problem with Jones - it's you who is not seeing what the real issue is. 

And Jones was one of better players yesterday - you obviously didn't watch the game.  He didn't play a great game but no one played a "great" game - Kennedy was quite good but not great.

Get off Jones' back - he is not the issue.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Macca

[dazzledavey36 54,817]

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jones wasn't up for yesterday. That is part of the problem

it took us 11 minutes to get the ball in our forward 50...

stop shielding grown men from responsibility Macca...

Actually i dont know if you noticed but Jones started in the backline yesterday while Oliver started on ball in the opening bounce along with Vince and Viney who seemed to be given a tagging role on Goddard.

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

What are you talking about? ... my post points the finger at most of the players on the list.  You see "red" so much that you end up not reading what others have got to say.

We get it, you've got a problem with Jones - it's you who is not seeing what the real issue is.  You lack experience and it shows with your posting - all you do is moan without ever offering up any solutions.

And Jones was one of better players yesterday - you obviously didn't watch the game.  He didn't play a great game but no one did - Kennedy was quite good but not great.

Get off Jones' back - he is not the issue.

I was at the game Macca. I saw all of Jones 30 metre kicks. 

When did he take the game on?

Tell me. I'm all ears....

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Actually i dont know if you noticed but Jones started in the backline yesterday while Oliver started on ball in the opening bounce along with Vince and Viney who seemed to be given a tagging role on Goddard.

That doesn't stop him from being on the move through the ground..

he wasn't standing still. 

[Macca 16,958]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I was at the game Macca. I saw all of Jones 30 metre kicks. 

When did he take the game on?

Tell me. I'm all ears....

So let's just blame one player - you do realise we're not talking about golf or tennis? Yeah?  As has been acknowledged by many on this site, Jones was one of our best players yesterday and without him, we would have lost by a lot more.  He by no means played a great game but no one did ... why the focus?

You're the same person who wanted to clear Jones out last year ... blaming one player when it's a team sport and a team problem is something I've never subscribed to ... it's all about the team, focusing in on one player is a waste of time and energy. 

For the record Jones had 29 possessions, 11 of them contested with 8 clearances (the next best was *3*) ... and all players kick the ball short to position when required ... with no movement ahead of him, what was Jones supposed to do yesterday?  Bomb it long like the others did?

I would suggest that if half a dozen others had played as well as Jones we would have won the game.

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

12 minutes ago, Macca said:

So let's just blame one player - you do realise we're not talking about golf or tennis? Yeah?  As has been acknowledged by many on this site, Jones was one of our best players yesterday and without him, we would have lost by a lot more.  He by no means played a great game but no one did ... why the focus?

You're the same person who wanted to clear Jones out last year ... blaming one player when it's a team sport and a team problem is something I've never subscribed to ... it's all about the team, focusing in on one player is a waste of time and energy. 

For the record Jones had 29 possessions, 11 of them contested with 8 clearances (the next best was *3*) ... and all players kick the ball short to position when required ... with no movement ahead of him, what was Jones supposed to do yesterday?  Bomb it long like the others did?

I would suggest that if half a dozen others had played as well as Jones we would have won the game - but I don't expect you to see or understand that.  You get too fixated which means you rarely see the big picture.

 

Macca The BIG PICTURE is this..

We Lost a game to a side that has  a 12 month WADA/CAS Ban imposed on it. Who then bought in 10 players who were not expecting on continuing in The AFL...

This Mish Mash Beat us fair and square yesterday. 

Last season we also lost to Essendrug & Carlton on the same ground...Our home ground actually. 

And you wonder why i put The Captain of this perpetually "weak" side in the Gun. 

Jonesy is a worker not Senior Management, but keep dreaming if you must. I prefer reality. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sir Why You Little

[Household Demon 34]

Where Is our leadership???? 
We were nowhere yesterday and It has me worried... who's going to stand up when it counts..
We cant ever get over the line vs The drug cheats

[Macca 16,958]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Macca The BIG PICTURE is this..

We Lost a game to a side that has  a 12 month WADA/CAS Ban imposed on it. Who then bought in 10 players who were not expecting on continuing in The AFL...

This Mish Mash Beat us fair and square yesterday. 

Last season we also lost to Essendrug & Carlton on the same ground...Our home ground actually. 

And you wonder why i put The Captain of this perpetually "weak" side in the Gun. 

Jonesy is a worker not Senior Management, but keep dreaming if you must. I prefer reality. 

See, I don't see leadership as one player - you seem to.  Back in the day we had a Capt., vc and a deputy vice - but, even back then, there were numerous others all vying for one of those 3 spots - in good teams, that is.

I see every player on the list as having the potential to be a leader and lead from the front.  A player shouldn't ever need an official "position" in order to set a great example and set the trend.

By focusing in on Jones, you're letting many others off the hook ... Jones is no RDB nor do I expect him to be - he's the best we've got though and he's doing nowhere near as poor a job as you're making him out to be doing.  I reckon if he was a slightly better player he'd be held up by all and sundry.  But, like T-Mac, Watts and many others in their prime, he is what he is. 

The real improvement needs to come from the younger blokes ... but in the meantime, it's up to the other senior players to set the example and lead the way. 

Lumumba, T-Mac, Watts, Garland, Pedersen, Jetta, Garlett & Matt Jones just didn't do enough yesterday ... Gawn is still learning and did win in the ruck yesterday (31 taps to Leuenberger's 16) ... it's a pity we don't know how to rove to him - Jones did of course but the other midfielders didn't.  Another fundamental where we're sadly lacking.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,016]

Just now, Macca said:

See, I don't see leadership as one player - you seem to.  Back in the day we had a Capt., vc and a deputy vice - but, even back then, there were numerous others all vying for one of those 3 spots - in good teams, that is.

I see every player on the list as having the potential to be a leader and lead from the front.  A player shouldn't ever need an official "position" in order to set a great example and set the trend.

By focusing in on Jones, you're letting many others off the hook ... Jones is no RDB nor do I expect him to be - he's the best we've got though and he's doing nowhere near as poor a job as you're making him out to be doing.  I reckon if he was a slightly better player he'd be held up by all and sundry.  But, like T-Mac, Watts and many others in their prime, he is what he is. 

The real improvement needs to come from the younger blokes ... but in the meantime, it's up to the other senior players to set the example and lead the way. 

Lumumba, T-Mac, Watts, Garland, Pedersen, Jetta, Garlett & Matt Jones just didn't do enough yesterday ... Gawn is still learning and did win in the ruck yesterday (31 taps to Leuenberger's 16) ... it's a pity we don't know how to rove to him - Jones did of course but the other midfielders didn't.  Another fundamental where we're sadly lacking.

 

I am not focusing just on Jones

But he is The Senior Captain. The Buck does stop there..

We have had too many of these soft losses. Where is the learning from such defeat and Redemption?

Redemption is not just one suprise win either. It is the "Click" moment when players unite and make that pledge to each other. 

If Jonesy had Captaincy in his DNA this would have been sorted by now. I keep saying it. He is a dam fine Blue Collar Worker who is doing a job not suited to him. 

I know he is giving his all

but this club needs a Bona Fide....

[Macca 16,958]

19 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am not focusing just on Jones

But he is The Senior Captain. The Buck does stop there..

We have had too many of these soft losses. Where is the learning from such defeat and Redemption?

Redemption is not just one suprise win either. It is the "Click" moment when players unite and make that pledge to each other. 

If Jonesy had Captaincy in his DNA this would have been sorted by now. I keep saying it. He is a dam fine Blue Collar Worker who is doing a job not suited to him. 

I know he is giving his all

but this club needs a Bona Fide....

Well, you're going to have to deal with the reality of the situation Wyl ... great captains don't grow on trees and a club usually has to develop their own leaders.

Besides which, you mark Jones too harshly anyway ... Viney is probably the next cab off the rank but the truth is that it's a senior player issue - and we've talked about that here for a number of years now.

I'd like to think that the senior players that I named in my previous post will all lift their game against North ... and if they don't? ... we can't then blame Jones (or, at least I won't)

Every player is responsible for his own actions - especially the senior players.   "If it is to be it is up to me" (RDB)

Edited April 3, 2016 by Macca

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,497]

IMHO Jones is a very good captain of the side, for further proof of this, dig up the threads that follow many of our wins.  When we're firing, Jones is praised, when we're playing poorly, he cops it.  Which, to an extent, is fair enough; he's the Captain of the team and the buck for onfield leadership stops with him.

The issue for me is that Jones, Vince and McDonald are terribly, terribly out of form.  Great players, playing badly.  Jones and Vince are not impacting off halfback and they are struggling to impose themselves when they are playing in the midfield.  McDonald, another onfield leader, has some far more obvious and visible blunders.  Until these three find form, following interrupted preseasons, we will struggle.