Changes vs Essendon

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

vandenBerg kicked two goals including the match winner on Saturday.

Pedersen kicked 0, including putting an easy shot out on the full.

 

You can't base it on 1 game, Vandenberg consistently misses easy opportunities he did a number of times last year especially on the run 30 to 40 out, hell he missed a sitter out on the full earlier in he 4th. But like I said I would much rather see him get better but for now I'd rather his scrappy kicks out if the middle then in front of goal.

Edited March 30, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Harmes is a Roos' project.

Tough as nails, won't shirk a contest and loves a scrap.

Won't get dropped.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Just now, jumbo returns said:

Harmes is a Roos' project.

Tough as nails, won't shirk a contest and loves a scrap.

Won't get dropped.

I think he shows alot just cant keep it up for a whole game yet and that will come, i have alot of confidence in him. I dont see him playing every week but he is going to be in selection frame every week simply based on potential 

[McQueen 17,864]

I can't see there being too many changes. It's easier to base changes on a string of form rather than the first game of the season. It's fact that it takes some players a bit longer to get into the groove compared to others. Tyson was ordinary but we know he can play very good footy when switched on. To pull the plug on him after one performance is a bit rich just like elevating a players out of the Magoos after one solid performance.

Dunn for O Mac is the only one to stand out at this stage given there's no VFL form to go off.

Frost gets another chance.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I agree having Hogan, Pederson, Frost and Watts all playing in the one forwardline isn't a great combination. 

But it was our entries inside 50 that was the reason we kept seeing packs of 6-7 al flying for the ball. Players will rarely mark in that situation and none of that was the fault of any forward. Kicking to the advantage of forward targets and to space is what we need more of. Just look at Watts' kick to Hogan in the last. He saw the space, recognised that it was Hogan in the best position, and kicked it to that area. 

Too many times in the first three quarters we just bombed long in hope. And there were a few repeat offenders who I won't name.

This week we absolutely must improve on our delivery inside 50 because we're going to have plenty of them. 

Roos mentioned in the presser that Essendon aren't an overly tall side which says to me we might see one of Frost/Pederson dropped with Dunn coming in for O Mac. Or perhaps we could see Frost move back for O Mac and no Dunn at all. 

We need to improve our efficiency going forward if we want to trouble some of the better sides this year. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by stevethemanjordan

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Since he is such a hot topic at the minute, here is my 2 cents about Tyson:

He has 2 major problems, he is slow and he is a terrible kick.
Now the latter is the lesser of the problems, for a midfielder at least, we can probably deal with 60% efficiency by foot if he can keep his hands up around 80-85%. Judd and Swan are both brownlow medal proof that you dont have to be a glorious kick to be a star midfielder as long as you can get your hands on the footy and give it to someone who is. we'll all love tyson forever if he gets the ball in and under and hands it out to le like of salem running past who has the skill to hit someone lace out.

The bigger problem I see is he is slow moving the ball on, he gets caught holding the ball more than any other player in the competition, and this is harder to fix. People calling for him to be dropped but I feel he will dominate in the VFL simply due to the extra time he has. IMO we have to persist with him at AFL level and he has to get better at moving the ball on quicker. Going down a level and playing exactly the same might help his confidence but wont change the fact he will continue to get caught at the top level. I'm open to sugestions as to how the VFL could improve this skill but right now i just cant see it helping  

[nutbean 8,838]

11 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Since he is such a hot topic at the minute, here is my 2 cents about Tyson:

He has 2 major problems, he is slow and he is a terrible kick.
Now the latter is the lesser of the problems, for a midfielder at least, we can probably deal with 60% efficiency by foot if he can keep his hands up around 80-85%. Judd and Swan are both brownlow medal proof that you dont have to be a glorious kick to be a star midfielder as long as you can get your hands on the footy and give it to someone who is. we'll all love tyson forever if he gets the ball in and under and hands it out to le like of salem running past who has the skill to hit someone lace out.

The bigger problem I see is he is slow moving the ball on, he gets caught holding the ball more than any other player in the competition, and this is harder to fix. People calling for him to be dropped but I feel he will dominate in the VFL simply due to the extra time he has. IMO we have to persist with him at AFL level and he has to get better at moving the ball on quicker. Going down a level and playing exactly the same might help his confidence but wont change the fact he will continue to get caught at the top level. I'm open to sugestions as to how the VFL could improve this skill but right now i just cant see it helping  

Agree on his biggest problem and yet he didn't get caught once on the weekend - I thought he moved the ball on quicker than usual -  he went at 70% D/E and had three dreadful clangers. Have a look at what he did in close - it was quite good - and that was undone and more by three horrible disposals.

 

(interesting how we rely on stats - I looked at clangers and Viney had the equal most with 5 -  understandable as he is taking kicks under extreme heat. The other on 5 was Watts - I must have been watching a different game)

 

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by nutbean

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

8 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Agree on his biggest problem and yet he didn't get caught once on the weekend - I thought he moved the ball on quicker than usual -  he went at 70% D/E and had three dreadful clangers. Have a look at what he did in close - it was quite good - and that was undone and more by three horrible disposals.

(interesting how we rely on stats - I looked at clangers and Viney had the equal most with 5 -  understandable as he is taking kicks under extreme heat. The other on 5 was Watts - I must have been watching a different game)

Yeah funny isnt it, stats i always feel are the more reliable over time but it does seem easy to throw them out when they dont suit the point we want to make. 

Tyson unfortunatly has made a name as a shocking kick and if he does that 1 or 2 horrible kicks a game we will remember that over the 5 hardball gets in the middle of the ground none of us can see. Watts is the same, amazing how he can manage to do 5 things in a row that are really good then make one misstake and suddenly he is worst on ground. (not this week but in the past) 

Side note: Viney's disposal is not elite either but he finds a way to keep his kick nearish the target which is all tyson needs to do to shake off this criticism

[daisycutter 29,613]

anybody know if there will be a general area for mfc members on sat (apart from the nose-bleed seats)?

[loges 6,767]

Are we training this week ?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

You can put a line through Petracca - Roos made it pretty clear that he won't be considered for the senior side until he is up to match fitness.  I think most of us knew he wasn't a chance to be selected this week, but this confirms it.

Roos also said Brayshaw and Lumumba are in the frame for selection this week as well.

[nutbean 8,838]

43 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

anybody know if there will be a general area for mfc members on sat (apart from the nose-bleed seats)?

yes..it's called the MCC smokers stand old chap ( sorry ...couldn't resist)

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I agree having Hogan, Pederson, Frost and Watts all playing in the one forwardline isn't a great combination. 

But it was our entries inside 50 that was the reason we kept seeing packs of 6-7 al flying for the ball. Players will rarely mark in that situation and none of that was the fault of any forward. Kicking to the advantage of forward targets and to space is what we need more of. Just look at Watts' kick to Hogan in the last. He saw the space, recognised that it was Hogan in the best position, and kicked it to that area. 

Too many times in the first three quarters we just bombed long in hope. And there were a few repeat offenders who I won't name.

This week we absolutely must improve on our delivery inside 50 because we're going to have plenty of them. 

Roos mentioned in the presser that Essendon aren't an overly tall side which says to me we might see one of Frost/Pederson dropped with Dunn coming in for O Mac. Or perhaps we could see Frost move back for O Mac and no Dunn at all. 

We need to improve our efficiency going forward if we want to trouble some of the better sides this year. 

I also think it is as simple as not enough genuine forward movement - our forward line work rate and commitment to presenting and representing dropped off - ( it did lift markedly  in the last quarter).

We did not work hard enough in the 2nd and 3rd quarter but that was mainly going forward - I was pleased to see that we did work hard defensively for most of the match.

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

19 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

You can put a line through Petracca - Roos made it pretty clear that he won't be considered for the senior side until he is up to match fitness.  I think most of us knew he wasn't a chance to be selected this week, but this confirms it.

Roos also said Brayshaw and Lumumba are in the frame for selection this week as well.

the big take away i got was that we shouldn't just assume Dunn will come in for OMAC, he did make mention of the bombers having a fairly short forward line and that being a consideration, i wouldn't be surprised if they go with Brayshaw or Lumumba and play them off half back instead of Dunn

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

6 hours ago, stuie said:

Sorry, but this is just a bit silly DS.

Aside from the fact Dawes very very rarely plays deep while "waving his arms and saying kick it long to me", and you're completely wrong about him not leading (even his usual haters admit how much ground he covers and how well he leads even if he doesn't always take the mark), it's just ridiculous to suggest someone who is a respected leader at our club has taught a bloke entering his second season to be a sook when he doesn't get his way. Honestly mate, if you were going to make a stretch like taht I hope you did some yoga first.

 

There's a spot I usually sit in the members about 70m out from goal and about 10m in from the boundary is often where Dawes sits as well. Calling for the ball to be kicked over the back or up to him to contest.

Didn't happen his first year but has regularly since. 

If Dawes is such a great leader then Hogan will have followed him to some extent. I didn't suggest Dawes has told Hogan to sook, but that Dawes very often sits and asks for the ball to be kicked to him. If you don't believe me that's fine but I'm not going to forget what I've seen. 

Contesting down the line is a job for a tall forward, but Dawes' timing to get down the line at the right time and repeat leads have been off for a while. 

[nutbean 8,838]

Dave Misson's injury report- what a pleasure - shortest segment I can remember in a long time !

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

2 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Harmes is a Roos' project.

Tough as nails, won't shirk a contest and loves a scrap.

Won't get dropped.

We might go in smaller down back and up forward, but if we don't and someone like Brayshaw is fit then it's one Roos project  making way for another. 

As much as I like Harmes I think half forward is our most competitive spot right now. Watts, Kennedy, Kent, Vanders, Brayshaw is a fair group, with Petracca getting closer to a debut as well. 

I wouldn't mind Harmes going back to Casey and playing on a wing and really developing his outside game. Half back as well. If we he can develop there he might face less competition for spots. 

[stuie 7,374]

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a spot I usually sit in the members about 70m out from goal and about 10m in from the boundary is often where Dawes sits as well. Calling for the ball to be kicked over the back or up to him to contest.

Didn't happen his first year but has regularly since. 

If Dawes is such a great leader then Hogan will have followed him to some extent. I didn't suggest Dawes has told Hogan to sook, but that Dawes very often sits and asks for the ball to be kicked to him. If you don't believe me that's fine but I'm not going to forget what I've seen. 

Contesting down the line is a job for a tall forward, but Dawes' timing to get down the line at the right time and repeat leads have been off for a while. 

Well you've seen very different things to me, and I stand roughly in the same spot.

Say what you want about his marking and scoring output, but I've never heard anyone else other than you claim he just stands around calling for it.

 

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

There's a spot I usually sit in the members about 70m out from goal and about 10m in from the boundary is often where Dawes sits as well. Calling for the ball to be kicked over the back or up to him to contest.

Didn't happen his first year but has regularly since. 

If Dawes is such a great leader then Hogan will have followed him to some extent. I didn't suggest Dawes has told Hogan to sook, but that Dawes very often sits and asks for the ball to be kicked to him. If you don't believe me that's fine but I'm not going to forget what I've seen. 

Contesting down the line is a job for a tall forward, but Dawes' timing to get down the line at the right time and repeat leads have been off for a while. 

One big thing i found last year was his teamates were starting to ignore him on a regular basis. He'd get into space at times and they still hold play up. That to me says that they have zero confidence in him to at least look 50/50 chance of marking it.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

7 hours ago, nutbean said:

I think the problem may lie in your viewing skills.

It wasn't a good game from Tyson and he had three very bad clangers but he hardly had the ball 17 times and hardly took 5 marks and hardly had a couple of tackles and hardly pumped inside 50 -  3 times. 

I think he has enough credits in the bank that he won't get dropped after one game.

 

it's more than one game though

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

One big thing i found last year was his teamates were starting to ignore him on a regular basis. He'd get into space at times and they still hold play up. That to me says that they have zero confidence in him to at least look 50/50 chance of marking it.

I think that has been our biggest problem with ball movement for a long time. No confidence in our own players in 1 on 1 contests. I felt that on the weekend it was the complete reverse which was great for our inside 50 count but seemed we were so over confident that Hogan or Watts whoever could win when out of position we wasted alot of those entries. Need to find a balance

Edited March 30, 2016 by ArtificialWisdom

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

One big thing i found last year was his teamates were starting to ignore him on a regular basis. He'd get into space at times and they still hold play up. That to me says that they have zero confidence in him to at least look 50/50 chance of marking it.

I hate these type of comments. Have you ever actually played footy? With a decent structure you don't spot a lead and then stop, have a think, weigh up if you think they'll mark it or not, ponder their form, maybe consider what Demonlanders post about their marking abilities... You follow the plan, you automatically reward the lead. How long do you think guys have to make decisions in AFL footy exactly?

 

[P-man 13,366]

2 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Since he is such a hot topic at the minute, here is my 2 cents about Tyson:

He has 2 major problems, he is slow and he is a terrible kick.
Now the latter is the lesser of the problems, for a midfielder at least, we can probably deal with 60% efficiency by foot if he can keep his hands up around 80-85%. Judd and Swan are both brownlow medal proof that you dont have to be a glorious kick to be a star midfielder as long as you can get your hands on the footy and give it to someone who is. we'll all love tyson forever if he gets the ball in and under and hands it out to le like of salem running past who has the skill to hit someone lace out.

The bigger problem I see is he is slow moving the ball on, he gets caught holding the ball more than any other player in the competition, and this is harder to fix. People calling for him to be dropped but I feel he will dominate in the VFL simply due to the extra time he has. IMO we have to persist with him at AFL level and he has to get better at moving the ball on quicker. Going down a level and playing exactly the same might help his confidence but wont change the fact he will continue to get caught at the top level. I'm open to sugestions as to how the VFL could improve this skill but right now i just cant see it helping  

Tyson tested 3.02 in the 20 metre sprint at the combine so he is no snail.

His kicking in match conditions seems to have declined in recent times but often it is a rushed kick out of congestion. Fundamentally I wouldn't say he is a poor kick. 

i really think there is a sense of panic in the OTT criticism of Tyson based on his less than stellar form last season appearing to flow into this one. We are one game into the season. Calls for him to be dropped are silly.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

I hate these type of comments. Have you ever actually played footy? With a decent structure you don't spot a lead and then stop, have a think, weigh up if you think they'll mark it or not, ponder their form, maybe consider what Demonlanders post about their marking abilities... You follow the plan, you automatically reward the lead. How long do you think guys have to make decisions in AFL footy exactly?

 

This is Melbourne we are talking about. There hasn't been consistent structure or cohesion to our play for a long time, so it wouldn't surprise me if players have been second guessing their team mates. 

Either way, you brought up Dawes and I mentioned it, I don't think he's been leading or directing the forward line well enough for over 2 years. If he gets himself fit then maybe he'll get a chance to prove me wrong. 

But aside from the midfield and half backs playing better I'd like to see Hogan, Watts, Vanders and the smalls take control of the forward line set ups and movement and not look for anyone else to give them direction. Hogan has a lot on his plate but he's a natural. Watts has always shown ability to get the ball to the right spot and is starting to find more of it leading up as well. Time for those 2 to take control as they did in the last quarter. 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 minute ago, P-man said:

Tyson tested 3.02 in the 20 metre sprint at the combine so he is no snail.

His kicking in match conditions seems to have declined in recent times but often it is a rushed kick out of congestion. Fundamentally I wouldn't say he is a poor kick. 

i really think there is a sense of panic in the OTT criticism of Tyson based on his less than stellar form last season appearing to flow into this one. We are one game into the season. Calls for him to be dropped are silly.

Sorry i should have been clearer i also don't doubt his running speed but its his thinking speed, you can see each thought in his head slowly tick over where as you look at a viney who just gets and goes theres no delay. 

And I agree he shouldnt be dropped but he needs to improve or he might vulnerable in 8-10 weeks time if he is still struggling. Not so much to be "dropped" more just to be overtaken in value by others