MelbourneDemonsFooty has been kind enough to upload the final quarter of our Round 14, 2009 match against West Coast that we won by 20pts. While the overall standard is pretty low, one player that caught my eye (and received lots of praise from the commentators) is Jack Grimes. His last quarter was just about as good as you'll see from a half back flanker. He took a tonne of marks, his kicking was precise, he ran to support his teammates, he took the game on, and he just had an air of confidence about him. His final stat line for the game included 16 marks, 29 disposals at 79.3% efficiency and 0 clangers. He also received a Rising Star nomination and 3 Brownlow votes for his performance. These stats are made more remarkable when you consider that it was only his 9th game of footy. Watching this game got me thinking that 2009 Jack Grimes is exactly the type of player that our backline needs.

So what's happened with Grimes since then, and what does the future hold for him? It seems that 2016 could be the most important year of his career, and many on here have written him off already. This game is evidence that he has the ability to be a gun, but after watching him over the past few years his form has continued to dip and his skills have become a liability. Are his issues solely rooted in a lack of confidence in his own abilities? 

I think it's undisputed that the captaincy placed an unreasonable burden on Grimes at a time in his career when he should have been focusing on improving his own game rather than leading his teammates. I think it's also undisputed that he has gone from being one of our most promising young players to someone that is at risk of not being on the list at the end of the season.

I'm of the view that his game has deteriorated as a result of him not focusing enough on his own game in key developmental years and the best chance he has to resurrect his career would be to start playing some footy without having any pressure put on him. I'd like to see Grimes go back to Casey for the first half of the season and play in his natural HBF position. He needs to rebuild his confidence, and I think the best way for him to do this is to play a decent stretch of games in an environment where there isn't the same level of pressure to perform as there is in the seniors. If he can manage to regain the form that he showed early in his career it will go a long way towards making us become a successful side. 

 

 

The wing just didn't work for him during the nab challange and now i think we are running out of optioms for him.

Do we go back to his natural position at half back?

Do we turn him into a Daniel Cross type run with player?

Defensive forward?? 

I think Grimes was okay in the NAB challenge. His kicking has improved for mine, and his tackling and marking is solid. Links up well and has a bit of a run when he gets the ball so it's half back for him I believe.

Needs to find more form but I think he's getting there. It's a long way back for him after injuries and the trauma of captaining the worst side in history.

I get it now........Jack Grimes has now taken over from Jack Watts as the new Demonland Whipping boy

Well played.....Carry on....

I have made it clear on here that I still think he is worth his spot and isn't as bad as some make out, but...

there re is no doubting he isn't the same player he was 5 years ago. He was tough and took plenty of intercept marks, often putting himself in the way of danger in doing so. Now he is more of an outside player who collects a fair bit of the ball, and this means his kicking is even more under the microscope.

My theory was that he suffered a few head knocks and concussions, and changed his game slightly because of it, perhaps even subconsciously.

As for where to now. I still think he should play off half back. If they are thinking of selecting Wagner, which I get the feeling they might, I would personally much prefer Grimes.

Grimes is not up to it, and he hasn't been for a long time now.

5 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

As for where to now. I still think he should play off half back. If they are thinking of selecting Wagner, which I get the feeling they might, I would personally much prefer Grimes.

Isn't wagner a rookie

5 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

I have made it clear on here that I still think he is worth his spot and isn't as bad as some make out, but...

there re is no doubting he isn't the same player he was 5 years ago. He was tough and took plenty of intercept marks, often putting himself in the way of danger in doing so. Now he is more of an outside player who collects a fair bit of the ball, and this means his kicking is even more under the microscope.

My theory was that he suffered a few head knocks and concussions, and changed his game slightly because of it, perhaps even subconsciously.

Not sure what games you are watching but Grimes still plays like you explained 5 years ago. Id say he would be the first player id expect to be putting himself in the way of danger on our list. 

Yes he misses targets but no more than half our team, but its just not highlighted the way it is for him around this place.

Clearly best 22 for me, well ahead of Lamumba and Wagner. If Roos was the guru he thinks he is, he would tell Jack he has the first 4, if not 6, weeks to make a position on the HBF his own. I'm sure he'll play much better if he doesn't fear being sent back to Casey, or wearing a substitute vest, every time he makes an error.

4 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Isn't wagner a rookie

He is, but we can upgrade at least one right away.

Damn he was good. WAS.

Quick over the ground, fast decision making, smooth kicking action. 

But how many times did he get the ball in congestion and have to work his way out of it with smarts not just run out of it? The game has changed.

He's not as quick as he used to be. His ball drop now takes an eternity and his kick far less reliable. 

He's just not the player he was in 2009 unfortunately. He can't play half back and anyone suggesting he should I think is a fool. He's had a good preseason and should be considered for a wing role. An important depth player for now.

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Damn he was good. WAS.

Quick over the ground, fast decision making, smooth kicking action. 

But how many times did he get the ball in congestion and have to work his way out of it with smarts not just run out of it? The game has changed.

He's not as quick as he used to be. His ball drop now takes an eternity and his kick far less reliable. 

He's just not the player he was in 2009 unfortunately. He can't play half back and anyone suggesting he should I think is a fool. He's had a good preseason and should be considered for a wing role. An important depth player for now.

He seems to take an eternity to get a kick away, and constantly gets smothered or bumped as he kicks. I can't quite tell whether it his technique or whether he is lacking the awareness that someone is closing him down.

5 hours ago, Good Times Grimes said:

MelbourneDemonsFooty has been kind enough to upload the final quarter of our Round 14, 2009 match against West Coast that we won by 20pts. While the overall standard is pretty low, one player that caught my eye (and received lots of praise from the commentators) is Jack Grimes. His last quarter was just about as good as you'll see from a half back flanker. He took a tonne of marks, his kicking was precise, he ran to support his teammates, he took the game on, and he just had an air of confidence about him. His final stat line for the game included 16 marks, 29 disposals at 79.3% efficiency and 0 clangers. He also received a Rising Star nomination and 3 Brownlow votes for his performance. These stats are made more remarkable when you consider that it was only his 9th game of footy. Watching this game got me thinking that 2009 Jack Grimes is exactly the type of player that our backline needs.

So what's happened with Grimes since then, and what does the future hold for him? It seems that 2016 could be the most important year of his career, and many on here have written him off already. This game is evidence that he has the ability to be a gun, but after watching him over the past few years his form has continued to dip and his skills have become a liability. Are his issues solely rooted in a lack of confidence in his own abilities? 

I think it's undisputed that the captaincy placed an unreasonable burden on Grimes at a time in his career when he should have been focusing on improving his own game rather than leading his teammates. I think it's also undisputed that he has gone from being one of our most promising young players to someone that is at risk of not being on the list at the end of the season.

I'm of the view that his game has deteriorated as a result of him not focusing enough on his own game in key developmental years and the best chance he has to resurrect his career would be to start playing some footy without having any pressure put on him. I'd like to see Grimes go back to Casey for the first half of the season and play in his natural HBF position. He needs to rebuild his confidence, and I think the best way for him to do this is to play a decent stretch of games in an environment where there isn't the same level of pressure to perform as there is in the seniors. If he can manage to regain the form that he showed early in his career it will go a long way towards making us become a successful side. 

 

 

excellent post GTG

8 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

He seems to take an eternity to get a kick away, and constantly gets smothered or bumped as he kicks. I can't quite tell whether it his technique or whether he is lacking the awareness that someone is closing him down.

Or it's the residual effect of the Neeld game style which he still hasn't got out of his system.

6 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

He seems to take an eternity to get a kick away, and constantly gets smothered or bumped as he kicks. I can't quite tell whether it his technique or whether he is lacking the awareness that someone is closing him down.

Both. His awareness is clearly shot. And he lost all touch on his kicks so they reverted to a very mechanical action to stop the shanks, he takes along time to balance up. 

The burden of leadership, injury set backs and poor training methods just ruined him unfortunately. Watch the video above and Nath Jones isn't half the player Grimes is but he developed really well. 

1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

Grimes is not up to it, and he hasn't been for a long time now.

but neither has Trengove.

it's way to early to say anything about his form in 2016,,,   as it hasn't even kicked off  yet.

Edited March 17, 201610 yr by dee-luded

Now just a journeyman footballer incapable of maintaining the highest level for whatever reason. Could stil be a valuable contributer but has to reverse his declining trajectory.  One of many that showed enormous potential and impact in their early careers then stagnate. Some fade quickly(Morton), others slower(Scully, Grimes). Injuries are a big factor for many.  That foot injury he had a few seasons ago I am sure affected his progress.

Edited March 16, 201610 yr by america de cali

Will be used as a depth player and linger in the VFL.

Would rather have blokes like Stretch, ANB and Newton in the team over him.

 

 

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Both. His awareness is clearly shot. And he lost all touch on his kicks so they reverted to a very mechanical action to stop the shanks, he takes along time to balance up. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

He seems to take an eternity to get a kick away, and constantly gets smothered or bumped as he kicks. I can't quite tell whether it his technique or whether he is lacking the awareness that someone is closing him down.

Unfortunately, both these observations are correct.  He takes just that bit longer to get a kick, handball away or takes a step too many.  He puts himself under pressure because he can't operate at a faster level. 

Contrast the sharp reflexes of Hogan and Oliver.  They know where they are going to put the ball before it even gets to them.  Jack doesn't have that capability.

And when you are playing in the backline, this failure gets shown up with opposition scores. 

When Lamumba and Dunn return and the rest of the backs are fit then he won't get a game.  Frost is another who will pressure him out, and O'Mac will do likewise when he reaches AFL level. 

A good foot-soldier, but nothing more.

23 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

Will be used as a depth player and linger in the VFL.

Would rather have blokes like Stretch, ANB and Newton in the team over him.

 

 

Fortunately gifting games to young immature players has stopped.

They won't get a game until they are ready to jump right over the top of a standing senior player.  

Makes them more desperate & work harder.  work defensively, build their bodies in the gym, etc.

 

Not what happened during the 2000's.

 

.

Edited March 17, 201610 yr by dee-luded

1 hour ago, Bossdog said:

I get it now........Jack Grimes has now taken over from Jack Watts as the new Demonland Whipping boy

Well played.....Carry on....

I'm not sure that I've said anything unreasonable in my post. I talked up his ability while also highlighting that his game isn't what it used to be; anybody that watches that video will find that hard to deny. Somebody that plays like he did in his 9th AFL game should only improve, whereas in Grimes' case that hasn't been so. I reckon he's a great clubman and seems like a fantastic guy, but there is no doubt that he's going to struggle to be in the 22 this season.

Just because someone points out a player's deficiencies doesn't mean that they're making that player a whipping boy. 

Stats from 2015

Disposal efficiency 81.5% - second in the team

Clangers 1.9 per game average   all players  1.8

Tackles 2.4 per game

Marks 5.8 per game

far from our worst at the moment

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Damn he was good. WAS.

Quick over the ground, fast decision making, smooth kicking action. 

But how many times did he get the ball in congestion and have to work his way out of it with smarts not just run out of it? The game has changed.

He's not as quick as he used to be. His ball drop now takes an eternity and his kick far less reliable. 

He's just not the player he was in 2009 unfortunately. He can't play half back and anyone suggesting he should I think is a fool. He's had a good preseason and should be considered for a wing role. An important depth player for now.

IMO his intercept marking was the highlight of his first couple of seasons. If he can get his confidence back up and start doing that again, I see no reason why he couldn't move back to the HBF, as I think that's the position that his strengths are best suited to. 

1 minute ago, Good Times Grimes said:

IMO his intercept marking was the highlight of his first couple of seasons. If he can get his confidence back up and start doing that again, I see no reason why he couldn't move back to the HBF, as I think that's the position that his strengths are best suited to. 

Yes we have to replace Cross who lapped up 5.3 intercept marks per game last year