That's the bloody point. A poor kicker ought not pushhis luck on a windy day.

His defending is very good. And then he costs us . it's bloody annoying.

The early rounds of last season prove that he can be a good player.Maximise his strengths and minimise his weaknesses is the key.

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

That's the bloody point. A poor kicker ought not pushhis luck on a windy day.

His defending is very good. And then he costs us . it's bloody annoying.

The point is though that it was a practice game. Which means practicing the plays you will rely on in the season proper. If winning was all then sure Tmac perhaps should have avoided low percentage kicks but it wasn't. 

As waynewusell notes he held his own and in particular was impressive when the ball was in the air.

I'm not overly concerned.

Rance was just about the biggest butcher in the AFL and now he's critical to the Tiges future.

McDonald will be ok...and it was a glorified practice game. A good time to tune up, make a few mistakes, learn and move forward.

Watching TMac today was extremely frustrating.

His main assets are that he is aerobic beast and at the same time he is very strong.

He would be a horrible match up for most teams if he played high half forward.

I'd play him at CHF.

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Absolutely appalling today. Don't care the slightest that its a practise game. the bigger issue is he has been on our list for 6 years yet he cannot kick to save himself. He has cost us at least nearly 5 goals from direct turnovers and he will continue to kill us in games this year. Time and time again he tries to be too cute. He needs to know his limitations and keep it simple and give off the first option.

Also if he wants to hold off on extending his contract then he seriously needs to pull his finger out of his ass because he is part of the problem we are killed in games from costly turnovers.

Needs to lift, he was horrendous today.

 

I will start by saying I didn't say the game. 

Tmac is an elite defender, he's not an elite user of footy. Why is he in a position that he's bringing the ball out of defense or trying to spot teammates up in the corridor? Were our structures there? From what little I heard on the radio they were. Who played on the other back flank opposite Salem? A good team would place elite users of the footy around him, him primary job is to beat the oppositions key forward reading other posts they have him defending well today. 

As I've stated before, ideally every player is an elite kick but we know that's not feasible. In my opinion a team can justify having three players in its 22 that aren't elite users because of the roles they play. They are the FB, CHB and RUCK. 

Glad to hear Garland backed up his BOG last week with another stand out performance. 3 years....

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Sorry Dazzle.  TMac's kicking was terrible today but he defended very well.  If someone has marginal kicking it will be exposed in windy conditions.

Boyd, Redpath and the other Doggy talls were very well held today and TMac was a good part of that.  I agree he makes poor decisions and should handball where possible.

I think you're seeing it too black and white.

Yes good subject this. Can't help but hike back to the play on flow and whether or not if we had more going past too, he wouldn't have had to have taken off as much to clear,

or attempt to clear. It might work itself out. One thing on the negative side their forwards dropped a lot of easy marks as well as being paid some that weren't.

This thread reminds me of the NAB Cup game last year where Jack Viney made a bad skill error in the final minute of a game that we lost by less than a goal and some Demonland posters were melting down and saying that he will be delisted at the end of the season and that he wasn't good enough etc etc,,,,

So glad I dont care one bit about the NAB cup anymore. Bring on Round 1

Criticism ofMcDonald is not based solely on today's performance. He has been butchering it for a long time.

People bringing Dunn into the equation or comparing other players within our structure are idiots. All NAB we have been experimenting others doing the kicking in, Dunn played about 20 minutes last week & hardly played as he had a groin issue this week. T Mac flat out cost us goals directly. Harmes did it too, but with T Mac it's becoming the norm. No point comparing players in different roles, how bout we look at how many other CHB's around the league butcher the ball as bad as Tom has been since the collingwood game when he got torn up by cloke in last year? I watch a fair amount of footy each week as I know a lot of you guys here do to, & the frustrating thing about Tom is for every good thing he does he kills us with his kicking. Weekly. Come on, which other CHB turns it over as often & as badly as Tom. 

Yes he can run all day & has shown he can be very very good defensively but he's been in a ba funk with the ball in his hands for a long time now. 

Just now, Petraccattack said:

This thread reminds me of the NAB Cup game last year where Jack Viney made a bad skill error in the final minute of a game that we lost by less than a goal and some Demonland posters were melting down and saying that he will be delisted at the end of the season and that he wasn't good enough etc etc,,,,

So glad I dont care one bit about the NAB cup anymore. Bring on Round 1

I remember that thread.  Embarrassing.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Agree with Dazzle and ohers 

He is the weak link in the core chain,

1 Can be outpositioned

2 Makes elementary Skill errors

3 Worse still some of his decision making leaves a lot to be desired as well!

I reckon throw Frost back to CHB and play him as a "Wild Card" Forward 

He is far too iffy defense.

Also if he wants to hedge on contract negotiations , So be it I don't actually rate him that highly!

Are you talking about McDonald or Garland?

 

5 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

This thread reminds me of the NAB Cup game last year where Jack Viney made a bad skill error in the final minute of a game that we lost by less than a goal and some Demonland posters were melting down and saying that he will be delisted at the end of the season and that he wasn't good enough etc etc,,,,

So glad I dont care one bit about the NAB cup anymore. Bring on Round 1

Tom's been doing plenty of this in the real stuff mate, I wish it was limited to just the nab cup. That Viney thread was a disgrace though, not all of us participated in that crap. 

Worth noting Salem turned the ball over twice in succession too. It was a hard day for kicking. We persist with McDonald. He's still young and looks like he wants to be out there. Strong runner, marker and ball finder. 

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Something I wish we had addressed in the off-season. Kicking skills and decision making in general from our back-six.

I will again go on record as saying Garland literally adds nothing to our back six currently. Today he offered nothing. Turned the ball over again, gave away free-kicks, he never spreads hard enough, wasn't nearly urgent enough, seemed to get what looked like a serious injury at least twice but within minutes was back to normal. He basically looks like a kid playing his first game such is the way he carries himself on-field. I honestly can't understand it. I'm baffled. Is there another excuse I'm missing as to why in both NAB challenge games he has been so incredibly underwhelming as a senior member of our back six? WTF.

McDonald competes hard but has a limited skill-level. In disposal namely. It's [censored] awful.

Lynden Dunn is another who just hasn't commanded the same presence since his stellar year at FB. 

I understand the club has prioritised adding talent and depth to the midfield but there are some other areas on our list that badly need addressing and our back-six have always been problematic in one way or another in my eyes.

Next year it's absolutely paramount we add some class to this list. Players who are composed with ball in hand. We have gone all out on contested ball winning mids but we lack class and composure on every line. 

Garland, Dunn, McDonald, Frost, Pederson.

I don't feel confident when any of them are taking a kick. That's nearly our entire Key position brigade. It's an enormous worry.

Kicking should be a [censored] prerequisite for almost every player brought to the club in this age of football.

Have Hawthorn not stamped that on every club's forehead for the last few years?!

 

 

 

I seem to remember you copped a lot of flack on here late last year for standing your ground on Garland. Fast forward a few months and....surprise, oh sorry there's no surprise. 

2 minutes ago, thevil1 said:

Tom's been doing plenty of this in the real stuff mate, I wish it was limited to just the nab cup. That Viney thread was a disgrace though, not all of us participated in that crap. 

 

Yes thats true, I dont deny that T Mac can be very frustrating with his disposal.

He has great strengths though...  hes superb on one one, can run all day and is a great athlete. Can shut down a star forward, or go forward himself and generate scoring opportunities for us and himself.

In other words, the sky is hardly falling.

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I seem to remember you copped a lot of flack on here late last year for standing your ground on Garland. Fast forward a few months and....surprise, oh sorry there's no surprise. 

I seem to remember him turning threads into an opportunity for him to vent his hatred for Garland.  Fast forward a few months and... surprise, oh sorry there's no surprise.

Same goes for you and Grimes.  Same old, same old.

He was notably poor today with the ball. Although his number one role is to beat his opponent and he did that. He still needs coaching on how to play to his strengths when he gets the ball

i think garland was worse today. Really just seemed off. Hopefully just cobwebs 

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I seem to remember him turning threads into an opportunity for him to vent his hatred for Garland.  Fast forward a few months and... surprise, oh sorry there's no surprise.

Same goes for you and Grimes.  Same old, same old.

Come in Captain Obvious.

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Come in Captain Obvious.

That makes no sense, but okay.

This is a thread about McDonald.  Not Garland.  Both of them, to me, are the same player - excellent defensively but you don't want the ball in their hands.  If you've got a problem with Garland and the decisions he makes, then you would have to feel the same way about McDonald as well.  

Garland took two nasty 'hits' today and was limping around for some time, but like the gutsy, fully committed, reliable defender he is, he ran the game out and helped us mop up the spill time after time... rarely beaten 1 on 1, a true defender who puts his body on the line week after week for the cause!

Garland with the 'ball in his hands' is like Peter Daicos compared to McDonald.

10 clangers between Garland and McDonald today.

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That makes no sense, but okay.

This is a thread about McDonald.  Not Garland.  Both of them, to me, are the same player - excellent defensively but you don't want the ball in their hands.  If you've got a problem with Garland and the decisions he makes, then you would have to feel the same way about McDonald as well.  

Clearly it's problematic. Whether you choose to defend Garland or not. The proof is in the pudding. A whole pre-season and it's the same story. Aren't you also sick of it?

Having a back six who's common thread is an inability to hit targets and make good decisions often enough is hugely problematic if we want to see the club move forward. The idea is to improve the longer you play at AFL level but there are number of players in the 25+ age bracket who have either stalled or are going backwards. 

Can you tell me what Garland has offered over the past two games? 

Do you not expect and demand a higher level of football from someone like him?

I even witnessed Roos having a go at him on the pine at one stage. 

 

 

Just now, stevethemanjordan said:

Clearly it's problematic. Whether you choose to defend Garland or not. The proof is in the pudding. A whole pre-season and it's the same story. Aren't you also sick of it?

Having a back six who's common thread is an inability to hit targets and make good decisions often enough is hugely problematic if we want to see the club move forward. The idea is to improve the longer you play at AFL level but there are number of players in the 25+ age bracket who have either stalled or are going backwards. 

Can you tell me what Garland has offered over the past two games? 

Do you not expect and demand a higher level of football from someone like him?

I even witnessed Roos having a go at him on the pine at one stage. 

 

 

We've had this discussion.  Numerous times.  Neither of us is going to change the other person's view, so it's a waste of time.  

And this is a thread about McDonald, not Garland.

Plus, Roos has had a go at everyone.  That's hardly compelling stuff.