17 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

It's funny because all of that is true, but I would pick this years team over that one any day of the week.

I figured that was your angle and I completely agree.

But let's not let hindsight construe our opinions.

2 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

As funny as this sounds, Brayshaws first year was in a better team.

Cripps starred at Carlton, guns stand out at any age in any team.

Trengove sprinting laps at training 

4 hours ago, rjay said:

I get where you are coming from 'nut', trying to hose it down...but in your private moments even you must be excited with this group. All competitors who hunt the ball and love the contest, a bit different from the past.

"Private moments"

Had to laugh RJay.

6 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm black or white with Trengove*.  His first 2 years were terrific.  I love Brayshaw, but the facts are Trengove had a better debut season while being nearly 9 months younger.  And he's never had brilliant coaching or development.

The only reason Trengove became a hack was his body.  If his body gets back to 100% he can develop into an A-grader.  If not he's finished.  I don't see any in between.  

 

 

 

 

*I also didn't like how he was coached under Neeld.  He stopped hunting the footy and was just led around at stoppages by the player he was shadowing.

The whole team was led around at different stages. 

I hope your right about Trengove, we'll know soon enough.

16 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Cripps starred at Carlton, guns stand out at any age in any team.

In his first year?

I think not.

4 hours ago, rjay said:

I get where you are coming from 'nut', trying to hose it down...but in your private moments even you must be excited with this group. All competitors who hunt the ball and love the contest, a bit different from the past.

Yup - I have always been in the "poor development" rather than "poor drafting" camp ( with the disclaimer that we have just got some plain wrong). Throw young untapped talent into the cesspool that was our club and you are guaranteed to get the same result time after time. I am very bullish that now we not only have talent but we have the necessary "schooling" in place to get the best out of them. 

There is absolutely a theme running through each and every one of our draftees - guys who love the contest. We have had some hard nuts in the past but the difference now is we have a regime that demands that these guys live up to that promise. 

So yes - I am bullish as I have ever been about our future - but I still won't suggest we have one of the best midfields in the comp !

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

I agree that Brayshaw has a better footy IQ and makes better decisions.  I reckon Brayshaw will become a brilliant midfielder.

That said, Trengove was also strong, brave and had good skills for a teenager.  Trengove has missed tonnes of development and I remain confident he has the potential to be A-grade if his body allows.  We've never seen anything like his best footy.

Brayshaw in his first year was simply  - get the ball and make things happen.

I was at Cripps' first game against Melbourne and he was utterly hopeless.  I was grinning from ear to ear.

We do judge young players awfully quickly.

Yeah Cripps is a second year player. 

Still a great year for him, let's hope Brayshaws is as good.

5 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Perhaps time has dulled my memory but he strikes me as being a solid accumulator.

Yeh those solid accumulators suck. You never see them do anything and then at the end of the game they have 30+ possessions. Duds like Bartell who he reminds me the most of, or that other dud Sam Mitchell. Nothing worse than a silent accumulator. Unless of course they happen to play for you.

23 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Yeah Cripps is a second year player. 

Still a great year for him, let's hope Brayshaws is as good.

I watched some youtube clips on the weekend (there is a bunch of good stuff here  https://www.youtube.com/user/Jackhammer1796) and was reminded of how good Brayshaw was last season. Some of his tackling is ferocious - the Geelong game has some terrific examples.

But the thing that jumped out was the number of goals he set up intercepting or linking up at half back, running and carrying and kicking long into our forward line. Gartlett got at least 3 goals as a result and Spencer got a crucial one against Geelong.  Deceptively pentrating and accurate kick (of both legs) who will only get longer as he gets stronger. 

1 hour ago, Italian Stallion said:

Trengove sprinting laps at training 

 

Was he quick?

The training thread says he was kicking and sprinting at very good pace today. Still a long way from full training, but you have to call it good progress.

I'm impressed....not convinced. But impressed. He certainly won't die not knowing 

2 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

The training thread says he was kicking and sprinting at very good pace today. Still a long way from full training, but you have to call it good progress.

Pace was the only thing missing. If he regains what he had clearly lost, we have another star mid. Great news.

I'm so looking forward to the day Trenners runs out on the G with the boys again......it will be a very emotional return.

5 hours ago, It's Time said:

Yeh those solid accumulators suck. You never see them do anything and then at the end of the game they have 30+ possessions. Duds like Bartell who he reminds me the most of, or that other dud Sam Mitchell. Nothing worse than a silent accumulator. Unless of course they happen to play for you.

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make here.  Are you suggesting that I'm belittling the "solid accumulators"?  If you are you're wrong.  Solid accumulators are useful in any team and if they use the ball well will keep their spot in the first 22 of most teams.

The point I'm trying to make, and I think most will understand it even if they don't agree, is that in my opinion he isn't as good as many here are making out.  I think his output in his first couple of years stands out because our team was so bad we held on to nice pieces of play and saw them as better than they were.  I've recognized that my recollections my be wrong and certainly I'm not suggesting my evaluation of him as a player is not moot.  

Now if he happens to be as nice an accumulator as the AA players you've mentioned, one a Brownlow Medalist and the other the captain of a premiership team I'll be more than happy but if this is your definition of a "solid accumulator" then I'd suggest your judgement as a whole needs some review.

You will not find any comment from me that is anything but complementary about Jack.  I hold him in the highest regard but I try not to let my personal view of a player as a person cloud my judgement of the player as a player.  I'm not always successful.  

My view is that if Jack returns to full fitness he will be a useful addition to our team.  I don't see him as having the power and explosiveness of Viney or Jones.  I don't see him having the impact on contests as AVB nor do I see him having the skill or kicking skills of Vince.  He's a balanced all rounder able to do a lot of things well but I don't see him as a game changer because I don't see him having the size or power to influence the game the way others do. 

So disagree with my view by all means but don't misrepresent my view by silly comparisons of "solid accumulators" with two of the better midfielders to play our game this century or the use or failed sarcasm. Put in a reasoned argument if you've got one.  For the record I'd be thrilled if Trenners became a critical part of our team but I just don't see it happening.

14 hours ago, Mach5 said:

In his first year?

I think not.

My bad, I didn't realise he played a whopping 3 games in his first year. I thought 2015 was his first season.

8 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

My bad, I didn't realise he played a whopping 3 games in his first year. I thought 2015 was his first season.

Yeah, I could tell you had no idea what you were talking about.

3 games only, because he was a slightly built kid and he was rubbish.

15 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make here.  Are you suggesting that I'm belittling the "solid accumulators"?  If you are you're wrong.  Solid accumulators are useful in any team and if they use the ball well will keep their spot in the first 22 of most teams.

The point I'm trying to make, and I think most will understand it even if they don't agree, is that in my opinion he isn't as good as many here are making out.  I think his output in his first couple of years stands out because our team was so bad we held on to nice pieces of play and saw them as better than they were.  I've recognized that my recollections my be wrong and certainly I'm not suggesting my evaluation of him as a player is not moot.  

Now if he happens to be as nice an accumulator as the AA players you've mentioned, one a Brownlow Medalist and the other the captain of a premiership team I'll be more than happy but if this is your definition of a "solid accumulator" then I'd suggest your judgement as a whole needs some review.

You will not find any comment from me that is anything but complementary about Jack.  I hold him in the highest regard but I try not to let my personal view of a player as a person cloud my judgement of the player as a player.  I'm not always successful.  

My view is that if Jack returns to full fitness he will be a useful addition to our team.  I don't see him as having the power and explosiveness of Viney or Jones.  I don't see him having the impact on contests as AVB nor do I see him having the skill or kicking skills of Vince.  He's a balanced all rounder able to do a lot of things well but I don't see him as a game changer because I don't see him having the size or power to influence the game the way others do. 

So disagree with my view by all means but don't misrepresent my view by silly comparisons of "solid accumulators" with two of the better midfielders to play our game this century or the use or failed sarcasm. Put in a reasoned argument if you've got one.  For the record I'd be thrilled if Trenners became a critical part of our team but I just don't see it happening.

I would have thought the point I was making was bleeding obvious. If you reread your own paragraph in your post I responded to, I think you'll find most people would think that when you start by saying you don't rate him as highly as others and finish by referring to him as a solid accumulator, that you do not rate solid accumulators.  I'm glad you've clarified your view of solid accumulators. 

 

In any event I totally disagree with your recollection of his first two years. Many in the industry compared him to Bartel not just me. He is a similar build has an outstanding contested overhead mark but was also at stages a game breaker like Bartel. We all loved Brayshaw's first season, as far as I'm concerned Trengove's was very similar. He certainly showed himself to be a better pick up than our first pick that year.  

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V165i-0SKwk

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V165i-0SKwk

hmm it would seem I having trouble with the new forum's 'embed' ability.. any help?

45 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Yeah, I could tell you had no idea what you were talking about.

3 games only, because he was a slightly built kid and he was rubbish.

You could tell could you, good for you.