Jack is the most overly criticised player in the AFL, all because of his draft position.

If he was pick 50 no one would comment.

There is a bloke running around for the Giants getting $1.2m a year, playing pretty ordinary football and escaping criticism for his pick 1 position and high salary.

I think we will see an improved JW now, especially if he is allowed to settle in one position.

BTW, I think he is the leading goal assist at the MFC and probably the best kick for goal.

And yes there is a spot in our 22 for him.

  On 05/11/2015 at 01:14, Redleg said:

Jack is the most overly criticised player in the AFL, all because of his draft position.

If he was pick 50 no one would comment.

There is a bloke running around for the Giants getting $1.2m a year, playing pretty ordinary football and escaping criticism for his pick 1 position and high salary.

I think we will see an improved JW now, especially if he is allowed to settle in one position.

BTW, I think he is the leading goal assist at the MFC and probably the best kick for goal.

And yes there is a spot in our 22 for him.

I would. His insipid efforts would have worn thin long ago. Pick 1 or pick 75.

And his B&F position tells you how much the coaching panel rates his "goal assists".

He certainly gets shots from the boundary. Why then is he hopeless dead in front 40 metres out?

  On 05/11/2015 at 03:38, ProDee said:

I would. His insipid efforts would have worn thin long ago. Pick 1 or pick 75.

And his B&F position tells you how much the coaching panel rates his "goal assists".

Playing 20 games should tell you how the coaches rate him too.

But let's not bring in all the facts, then it wouldn't be a good ole Watts bashing thread.

  On 04/11/2015 at 21:36, jumbo returns said:

No you're not.

You're comfortable in joining in the bleating choir of the minority on here.

I still maintain that outside the MFC supporters, JW is not at the forefront of their thoughts.

Thanks for updating me on what my interests are.

What does the above even mean? What minority? The critical minority? Where have I been critical of Watts in this thread?

I regret responding to you on this subject. I should know better. Every mention of Jack Watts has you acting like someone has taken your first born. You need to come to grips with the fact he's high profile and attracts more attention than the average player. I'm sure he came to terms with it long ago.

Here's hoping 2016 is his most consistent season.

  On 05/11/2015 at 04:47, P-man said:

Thanks for updating me on what my interests are.

What does the above even mean? What minority? The critical minority? Where have I been critical of Watts in this thread?

I regret responding to you on this subject. I should know better. Every mention of Jack Watts has you acting like someone has taken your first born. You need to come to grips with the fact he's high profile and attracts more attention than the average player. I'm sure he came to terms with it long ago.

Here's hoping 2016 is his most consistent season.

I think there is no bigger tick for your argument than the kick out he fluffed from full back that resulted in a goal towards the end of this last season and it made the AFL highlight videos for the week ! I thought - "you have got to be kidding me - A Jack Watts clanger that got its own video !".

He absolutely draws more than the average amount of attention from media - some fair and some unfair.

edit - couldn't find that video but found two others

1/ http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-06-21/secondgamer-saves-watts-blushes- have a look at the title and then look at the play - seriously - he took one step and was called to play on delivers a handball to a free man and a goal. You could hardly suggest that the second gamer "saved him"

2/http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2015-06-08/watts-misses-swan-capitalises- again - go through the titles of lots of videos - it seems sometimes the media is keen to sink the boots in ( again - sometimes fairly but many times unfairly)

I am no apologist for JW and some of his exquisite play that he displays is equally let down by him going missing for large chunks of a match and some tepid attacks on the contest,. But he absolutely attracts too much comment.

( and I just added to it)

I'm a big Jack Watts fan, I understand that he hasn't quite lived up to his junior form - which was exceptional. But he hasn't been deplorable, although some like to paint that picture (mostly opposition supporters/media). In saying that, there is a lot of room for improvement, I don't think the penny has dropped, and I still believe it will. I think there is a lot of improvement left in blokes like Watts, hopefully Trengove as well.

  On 05/11/2015 at 01:14, Redleg said:

Jack is the most overly criticised player in the AFL, all because of his draft position.

If he was pick 50 no one would comment.

There is a bloke running around for the Giants getting $1.2m a year, playing pretty ordinary football and escaping criticism for his pick 1 position and high salary.

I think we will see an improved JW now, especially if he is allowed to settle in one position.

BTW, I think he is the leading goal assist at the MFC and probably the best kick for goal.

And yes there is a spot in our 22 for him.

Jack also still wouldn't be on the list if it wasn't for his draft position. It works both ways.

The club didn't hesitate with Toumpas this year and won't next year with him unless he changes the way he plays. He has taken the term outside to a whole new level.

People blame his development but he is one of our most skilled and his understanding of the game is right up there. To be fair he had that before he arrived.

He failure to impact contacts solely rests with him.

In 2016 he is playing for his future in the game, not just with us.

  On 05/11/2015 at 05:45, KingDingAling said:

I'm a big Jack Watts fan, I understand that he hasn't quite lived up to his junior form - which was exceptional. But he hasn't been deplorable, although some like to paint that picture (mostly opposition supporters/media). In saying that, there is a lot of room for improvement, I don't think the penny has dropped, and I still believe it will. I think there is a lot of improvement left in blokes like Watts, hopefully Trengove as well.

  On 05/11/2015 at 05:45, KingDingAling said:

I'm a big Jack Watts fan, I understand that he hasn't quite lived up to his junior form - which was exceptional. But he hasn't been deplorable, although some like to paint that picture (mostly opposition supporters/media). In saying that, there is a lot of room for improvement, I don't think the penny has dropped, and I still believe it will. I think there is a lot of improvement left in blokes like Watts, hopefully Trengove as well.

Room for improvement where? There's only one area of his game that needs improving and that's his attack on the footy.

Make that two, his tackling.

  On 05/11/2015 at 03:45, Franky_31 said:

He certainly gets shots from the boundary. Why then is he hopeless dead in front 40 metres out?

Rubbish. He nails most of his shots.

  On 05/11/2015 at 03:38, ProDee said:

I would. His insipid efforts would have worn thin long ago. Pick 1 or pick 75.

And his B&F position tells you how much the coaching panel rates his "goal assists".

Maybe the fact that he gets a game every week, tells you more of how the Coaches rate his game.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:19, Redleg said:

Maybe the fact that he gets a game every week, tells you more of how the Coaches rate his game.

Did we have many injuries this year?

Ball use without pressure - A

Ball use with pressure - C+

Uncontested ball winning - B

Contested ball winning - C

Contested marking - C

Tackling - C/C+

Defensive work rate - D

All he has to do is get his competitive efforts up to an ok baseline and then make sure he's winning enough of the footy and he'll be a valuable and consistent part of the team.

Maximise his strengths and round off his weaknesses. It was close to happening for him this year and then he dropped away late.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:19, Redleg said:

Maybe the fact that he gets a game every week, tells you more of how the Coaches rate his game.

Good God, man. Salem in his second year played 9 (completed) games and finished ahead of Watts in the B&F, who completed 20.

He was on the trade table, but no other club had any interest.

And he didn't get a game very week, he was dropped twice. That said, he should be playing for Casey. He will be in 2016.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:25, ProDee said:

Good God, man. Salem in his second year played 9 (completed) games and finished ahead of Watts in the B&F, who completed 20.

He was on the trade table, but no other club had any interest.

And he didn't get a game very week, he was dropped twice. That said, he should be playing for Casey. He will be in 2016.

Coaches B & F votes are not the be all and end all. A bloke won a Brownlow this year and lost his club B & F, to a bloke who didn't make AA in his position after having not his best AFL season.

Anyway we will see how Jack goes this season.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:30, Redleg said:

Coaches B & F votes are not the be all and end all. A bloke won a Brownlow this year and lost his club B & F, to a bloke who didn't make AA in his position after having not his best AFL season.

Anyway we will see how Jack goes this season.

Of course he lost his B&F, he missed 4 games and was lame in another half dozen. Brownlows have a very different voting system and he'd already racked up a heap of BOGs in a 3 man per game award system. Surely this doesn't need explaining ?

Even then, Fyfe was 1 vote from third and Watts finishes behind a second year player with less than half his games.

You're also trying to gain mileage out of Sandilands not making AA when the selectors only picked one ruckman, which was rightly Goldstein.

Talk about clutching at straws.

I'd never use the Brownlow to justify any argument.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:42, ProDee said:

Of course he lost his B&F, he missed 4 games and was lame in another half dozen. Brownlows have a very different voting system and he'd already racked up a heap of BOGs in a 3 man per game award system. Surely this doesn't need explaining ?

Even then, Fyfe was 1 vote from third and Watts finishes behind a second year player with less than half his games.

You're also trying to gain mileage out of Sandilands not making AA when the selectors only picked one ruckman, which was rightly Goldstein.

Talk about clutching at straws.

I'd never use the Brownlow to justify any argument.

I reckon it's less about the overall best player and more about that position, high half forward in my opinion is close to the toughest position to play on the ground, i felt Watts show some clear signs of improvement and had a really strong patch of games last year, sure his form dropped away but he played most of the games so he's clearly best 22.

i'd just play him as our third forward and leave him there all year, i reckon he could prove very useful.

The problem that most supporters have with Jack Watts is that he has never played a 'great' game of football in his entire career. His best efforts would be considered 'good' at best.

He still has a role to play, for sure, as his disposal and decision-making is still up near the best at the club.

The reason so many people deride him is because of his lack of desire for a contest. Its always been the case that a lesser talent with extreme desire and a set of nuts will always be more popular to the masses than a bloke with talent but a perceived softness. Whether its in sport or life those characteristics are going to make someone unpopular.

the reason he polarizes is because half the world see him as untapped potential and the other half see him as a Pus*y.

If we hold to account his draft position then he has underwhelmed. If we go with the mantra that after the draft the number he was picked at doesn't matter(don't agree with that philosophy) then he has time to improve just as others before him.

Draft picks are currency and players picked at those drafts are investments in a clubs future. High draft picks are expensive. They mean either a club has given up a lot for that pick or a whole season has been thrown away due to poor performance. It is disingenuous to say the number a player was drafted at is irrelevant. Melbourne lost a lot to have the opportunity to take a great player at no1 in 2008. So far that pick has been wasted. Im not convinced he will survive beyond 2016 but I look forward to seeing how it pans out.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:24, Georgiou R.R. Martin said:

Ball use without pressure - A

Ball use with pressure - C+

Uncontested ball winning - B

Contested ball winning - C

Contested marking - C

Tackling - C/C+

Defensive work rate - D

Being very generous there Georgiou

I think he should take a leaf out of Nat Fyfes book who said in his Brownlow acceptance speech, that at the start of last years pre season he went to the fitness coordinator and said he wanted to be a more powerful and stronger player, and worked really hard at it.

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:47, Unstable Dees fan said:

I reckon it's less about the overall best player and more about that position, high half forward in my opinion is close to the toughest position to play on the ground...

And that's the greatest indictment of all. It's taken 3 coaches and 7 years to try and find a position on the ground where he can have some influence on the game.

He has all of the physical attributes to be our Jack Gunston and kick 50+ goals a year and he contributes 10.

One day even his greatest supporters will realise he chose the wrong sport.

  On 05/11/2015 at 21:08, DeeZee said:

I think he should take a leaf out of Nat Fyfes book who said in his Brownlow acceptance speech, that at the start of last years pre season he went to the fitness coordinator and said he wanted to be a more powerful and stronger player, and worked really hard at it.

Jobe Watson sat down with him couple of years ago and also explained his strict training program that obviously transformed him into a star that he is now. Whether Watts took that on board i dont know.

  On 05/11/2015 at 21:52, dazzledavey36 said:

Jobe Watson sat down with him couple of years ago and also explained his strict training program that obviously transformed him into a star that he is now. Whether Watts took that on board i dont know.

Obviously Not DD. JW still doesn't look strong enough let alone fierce enough!

  On 05/11/2015 at 12:25, ProDee said:

Good God, man. Salem in his second year played 9 (completed) games and finished ahead of Watts in the B&F, who completed 20.

He was on the trade table, but no other club had any interest.

And he didn't get a game very week, he was dropped twice. That said, he should be playing for Casey. He will be in 2016.

Matt Jones and Terlich were top 5 in the Bluey a couple of years ago too.

Wouldn't read too much into Bluey results as far as careers go.