OK...the Elephant in the room rises and trumpets " how many players have self dropped BECAUSE they felt the 1sts wasnt for them that week ?"

What's that about then ?

As someone who did that myself as a playing selector I can tell you it is about putting the team first. It is the mindset of a team player - something we all want in every person representing our club.

I think he'll be there in 2016.

Best 22 easily.

Move on.

As someone who did that myself as a playing selector I can tell you it is about putting the team first. It is the mindset of a team player - something we all want in every person representing our club.

Appreciate the ideal.

Afl club ?

Reason for saying...whole different game.

I think he'll be there in 2016.

Best 22 easily.

Move on.

Best 22

Remind me of last team sheet !! Just saying

I think he'll be there in 2016.

Best 22 easily.

Move on.

No we shouldn't move on. If you don't like hearing truth after truth then simply don't read this thread because its obviously too painful for you.

We want to talk about Watts because of rumours that he could be on the way out or when the [censored] is gonna actually pull his finger out?

Its a far discussion.

No we shouldn't move on. If you don't like hearing truth after truth then simply don't read this thread because its obviously too painful for you.

We want to talk about Watts because of rumours that he could be on the way out or when the [censored] is gonna actually pull his finger out?

Its a far discussion.

That's not a fair discussion, dazzle. He has pulled his finger out, he just has a ceiling that's all. I'm prepared to keep supporting him as a player if he wears the red and blue, but if we could get Prestia for him, I'd be quite happy to see us facilitate a trade.

That's not a fair discussion, dazzle. He has pulled his finger out, he just has a ceiling that's all. I'm prepared to keep supporting him as a player if he wears the red and blue, but if we could get Prestia for him, I'd be quite happy to see us facilitate a trade.

Absolutely. As would i.

No we shouldn't move on. If you don't like hearing truth after truth then simply don't read this thread because its obviously too painful for you.

We want to talk about Watts because of rumours that he could be on the way out or when the [censored] is gonna actually pull his finger out?

Its a far discussion.

Not painful.

I'm comfortable in my observations and support of JW to refute your perception of 'truth.'

Still in our best 22 by a long way and will effectively play his 3rd year next year under a coaching executive that's actually got a clue.

I'm not counting the Neeld/Bailey (rip, Dean) years as effective development.

Can we not re-write 2015 so quickly?

Watts pulled his finger out and played good footy for half the year and tailed off again in the last month with every other player bar a few. That good stretch is why he is even worth something, although I don't think other clubs will see as much as we do.

I like the position we are in now - we now he can deliver something onfield and the club has options with him in October.

But those 4 first quarters that we were beaten 37 goals to 3 will not be swept aside if Jack leaves, the FD and the players as a group have to answer that.

He played good footy for half the year

Therefore the other half wasn't that crash hot.

Stands to reason

Jack was "dropped" twice in 2015 at a time when we had plenty of injured players. With another influx of hard footballing talent and continued development Jacks days in the 1st are numbered unless he finds another level of intensity and hardness.

He's now a matured player and shouldn't run out of steam for 1/2 a season.

What happens if we make finals... "sorry Jack's ruled himself out cause he's a wee bit tired and wants to do the team thing!"?

Trade him, give him another year, sad thing is, i'm caring less and less as the new blood takes over.

Jack did say many years ago "i don't mind losing"

I always remember reading that. Not good on a Saturday morning....

Jack did say many years ago "i don't mind losing"

I always remember reading that. Not good on a Saturday morning....

He was 19 and we don't know exactly what he was asked but he never said: "I don't mind losing."

Yes, he desperately wants to be successful and repay the Dees, but footy is footy. In Watts' world, it is not a matter of life and death.

"I like to relax and have fun. You live once and have one shot at it. Why not enjoy it? I don't get too stressed," Watts said.

Does he take losses hard?

"Nah, not really," he said.

"I find getting stressed over things, in the context of life, what's the point really? You've got to move on.

"It's something that the parents drilled into me early. Have a go at things, have fun and take the right decisions."

Is there a difference between 'not mind losing' and 'not getting stressed about losing'?

He was 19 and we don't know exactly what he was asked but he never said: "I don't mind losing."

Is there a difference between 'not mind losing' and 'not getting stressed about losing'?

agreed

he obviously didn't mean 'i don't care if we win or lose'

he meant 'i don't drop my bundle emotionally if we lose'

massive difference

Not painful.

I'm comfortable in my observations and support of JW to refute your perception of 'truth.'

Still in our best 22 by a long way and will effectively play his 3rd year next year under a coaching executive that's actually got a clue.

I'm not counting the Neeld/Bailey (rip, Dean) years as effective development.

The most interesting thing about this is that you're the first to howl down suggestions of players from other clubs who you think are 'rubbish' when really if Watts were playing for any other team, you'd be saying the same bloody thing. We get that you like the guy and want him to succeed.

I'm giving Watts one last year to bridge the gap between efforts that are literally mind-bogglingly bad and efforts that should be the norm with him. I think it's fair to say that as far as best 22 go, next year may in fact be the year in which he isn't part of it providing we trade in some talent and our youngsters come on. That is if he continues down the current path.

He has undoubtedly got skills that our side desperately needs. But he also possesses habits that our side desperately needs to rid itself of and ultimately, he has to either get rid of those or it's bust for him.

Next year is the year. He must be played as a third tall who can be dangerous in open play, on the ground, deliver to players like Hogan with precision, use his footballing smarts.

But he must want it really really badly, and I want to see that as a supporter. I want to see how much he wants it.

McCartney's value I believe will really shine through this coming pre-season as last year he started with our club in Feb or March if I remember correctly. Now that he's developed relationships with these guys and understands how best to approach them, I think we'll see some significant steps from younger players and I hope that Watts is one of them..

Edited September 11, 201510 yr by stevethemanjordan

agreed

he obviously didn't mean 'i don't care if we win or lose'

he meant 'i don't drop my bundle emotionally if we lose'

massive difference

Then again..

Hogan said on 360 that he doesn't play well, then his week is generally pretty sh!t...

Would much prefer that attitude.

(Long term Watts supporter by the way)

Then again..

Hogan said on 360 that he doesn't play well, then his week is generally pretty [censored]...

Would much prefer that attitude.

(Long term Watts supporter by the way)

He said that when talking about the 'bad things' about being an AFL footy player in the media glare.

I could grab a transcript of what Hogan said in that 'interview' with Slobbo and pull it apart if I wanted to - but I don't, because he's a kid trying to the best by himself, the club, his family, his mate that he beat, and the forum he was on.

It's a little sad bringing up what Jack Watts said when he was 19 to prop up Jesse Hogan - Hogan doesn't need that, he also wouldn't want it.

Edited September 11, 201510 yr by rpfc

Judge players by what they do, not what they say. Especially when they are teenagers who are a year or two into the system.

Really, is there that much to be read into him being dropped for round 22?

Several players returned, White got a chance and showed he was worth persevering with.

Bottom line for me is that we have few really fine users of the ball so I reckon it would be a huge risk to let Watts go.

Really, is there that much to be read into him being dropped for round 22?

Several players returned, White got a chance and showed he was worth persevering with.

Bottom line for me is that we have few really fine users of the ball so I reckon it would be a huge risk to let Watts go.

gee, i wish we did

The AFL tables make for fascinating reading. Some of Hogans numbers are crazy eg 52 marks inside 50, 13 more than the Gartlett at number 2; 90.4% playing time and 20 games and 2nd most goal assists.

In terms of Watts it comes as no surprise that statistically he had an ok year without setting the world on fire. Some noteworhty Watts stats:

• 7th most disposals in total
• 6th most uncontested possessions
• 10th most disposals average per game
• Third in goal assists (behind Brayshaw and Hogan)
• 11th most contested possessions
• 13th most one per centers (ahead of Vince and Brayshaw)
• 10th most contested marks
• 14th most tackles
• 11th most clearances
• 5th most hitouts
• 9th most inside 50s

Jack of all stats, king of none...

• 26th for tackles...

Your figure of "14th most tackles" deceptive as his average of just over 2 tackles per game (20 games) puts him 26th, for a player who's often in the middle its woeful.

Billy Stretch, a kid in his FIRST season, playing a similar role, managed over 3.5 tackles per game (11 games).

Edited September 11, 201510 yr by PaulRB

He was 19 and we don't know exactly what he was asked but he never said: "I don't mind losing."

Is there a difference between 'not mind losing' and 'not getting stressed about losing'?

sugar coat it any way you want to...

But.

Like i said in a different thread we have had for many years far too many players on our list who are just happy to be AFL players without going the extra step

as the wages are all the same...

The AFL tables make for fascinating reading. Some of Hogans numbers are crazy eg 52 marks inside 50, 13 more than the Gartlett at number 2; 90.4% playing time and 20 games and 2nd most goal assists.

In terms of Watts it comes as no surprise that statistically he had an ok year without setting the world on fire. Some noteworhty Watts stats:

• 7th most disposals in total
• 6th most uncontested possessions
• 10th most disposals average per game
• Third in goal assists (behind Brayshaw and Hogan)
• 11th most contested possessions
• 13th most one per centers (ahead of Vince and Brayshaw)
• 10th most contested marks
• 14th most tackles
• 11th most clearances
• 5th most hitouts
• 9th most inside 50s

Brayshaw and Hogan were 1 and 2?

Bloody hell that's great.

The most interesting thing about this is that you're the first to howl down suggestions of players from other clubs who you think are 'rubbish' when really if Watts were playing for any other team, you'd be saying the same bloody thing. We get that you like the guy and want him to succeed.

I'm giving Watts one last year to bridge the gap between efforts that are literally mind-bogglingly bad and efforts that should be the norm with him. I think it's fair to say that as far as best 22 go, next year may in fact be the year in which he isn't part of it providing we trade in some talent and our youngsters come on. That is if he continues down the current path.

He has undoubtedly got skills that our side desperately needs. But he also possesses habits that our side desperately needs to rid itself of and ultimately, he has to either get rid of those or it's bust for him.

Next year is the year. He must be played as a third tall who can be dangerous in open play, on the ground, deliver to players like Hogan with precision, use his footballing smarts.

But he must want it really really badly, and I want to see that as a supporter. I want to see how much he wants it.

McCartney's value I believe will really shine through this coming pre-season as last year he started with our club in Feb or March if I remember correctly. Now that he's developed relationships with these guys and understands how best to approach them, I think we'll see some significant steps from younger players and I hope that Watts is one of them..

As I said in my previous post, he's in his 2nd year of an executive coaching panel that have got a clue.

I'm not blinded to JW's limitations....that's your emotive summation.

Unlike some here, I've made my peace with JW and I see him in our best 22, with amazing skills, fitness and footy smarts.