Doesn't think he needs to I would say. I don't like how Vince and, to a greater extent, Jones demand more from teammates than they ask of themselves. they need to give it to the 'right' player not the 'best', and they should block for the bloke in space don't demand the footy running ahead of the footy, and not demand the footy 15m away along the boundary line just because you are Nathan Jones or Bernie Vince...

These are the bad habits of good players and getting them out of it will not improve them, it will improve our team.

It'll improve them both.

If performance based salaries resulted in us paying MORE money, I'd be surprised yet happy

I was more thinking about not meeting the required minimum payment. (95% currently? I'm not sure.)

The sun came up today and I thought about some AFL players we have injured in the sheds and thought.....we'll be okay next year.

Agreed. Regardless of the result our list is in the best shape it has for a long long time. There is something to definitely work with here. The big downer this year is the long term injuries to Kent Trengove Salem Petracca and Frost. Its hurting their development which sucks but if we had these guys on the park this year we would easily be a 8-10 win better side.

The sun came up today and I thought about some AFL players we have injured in the sheds and thought.....we'll be okay next year.

From my best 22 the missing players were:

• Tyson
• vandenBerg
• Frost
• Kent
• Petracca
• Jetta

That's a few for sure, but all teams have injuries and no matter who is playing the non-negotiable things such as tacking, chasing, sprinting, talking and shepherding should be ingrained into every player who pulls on the jumper.

Should Daniel Cross go around again next year? You can't fault the guys attitude, commitment or his career overall. But he's very slow and can't kick far or accurately. He's one of many I hate seeing getting the ball in space, anywhere on the ground because he can't do much with it. 50/50 for mine.

Sadly he seemed the only player giving 100% in the first half.

From my best 22 the missing players were:

• Tyson
• vandenBerg
• Frost
• Kent
• Petracca
• Jetta

That's a few for sure, but all teams have injuries and no matter who is playing the non-negotiable things such as tacking, chasing, sprinting, talking and shepherding should be ingrained into every player who pulls on the jumper.

That's true, but some do the non-negotiables better than others.

Inject these players into a starting line up and you're talking about a different feel.

But, please, I get the anger and frustration....I felt empty yesterday.

Hello All. First post. Thanks for the wonderful entertainment over the past years. I have vicariously enjoyed(for the larger part) the substantial distraction this forum supplies...It's always there for me, no matter what else is going on in my life. It's generally the first and last thing I look at each day(sick and depraved)! With respect to all opinions offered over yesterdays performance, I offer my idea as to the underwhelming display as follows: Is it possible that the players currently find themselves in the throes of a fully blow preseason within a season? further to the result (however unsavoury to contemplate) might it be that the recruiting staff have their hearts collectively set on a particular player in the draft? I may be grasping at straws but its what I choose to believe! Happy days.

Hello All. First post. Thanks for the wonderful entertainment over the past years. I have vicariously enjoyed(for the larger part) the substantial distraction this forum supplies...It's always there for me, no matter what else is going on in my life. It's generally the first and last thing I look at each day(sick and depraved)! With respect to all opinions offered over yesterdays performance, I offer my idea as to the underwhelming display as follows: Is it possible that the players currently find themselves in the throes of a fully blow preseason within a season? further to the result (however unsavoury to contemplate) might it be that the recruiting staff have their hearts collectively set on a particular player in the draft? I may be grasping at straws but its what I choose to believe! Happy days.

A preseason of chicken parmas and VB as far as I can see.....

I am as annoyed as anyone with the result, but take some solace in the fact that we played so badly for 90% of the game, yet if we had capitalized on a few of the crucial moments that were there, we could have won.

Moments that spring to mind was the Salem missed goal late in the 3rd, which would have brought us within 3 goals at 3/4 time.

Then in last after getting 1st goal pretty quickly and on what to me seemed like a bit of a roll, Hogan/Gawn both went for the same easy mark in the goal square and spoiled each other (they bickered about it with each other for a fair while afterwards).

Should have been another easy goal.

Take both those opportunities and we would have been within a goal, with our tails up and I reckon things would have been different.

Not to be....

Hello All. First post. Thanks for the wonderful entertainment over the past years. I have vicariously enjoyed(for the larger part) the substantial distraction this forum supplies...It's always there for me, no matter what else is going on in my life. It's generally the first and last thing I look at each day(sick and depraved)! With respect to all opinions offered over yesterdays performance, I offer my idea as to the underwhelming display as follows: Is it possible that the players currently find themselves in the throes of a fully blow preseason within a season? further to the result (however unsavoury to contemplate) might it be that the recruiting staff have their hearts collectively set on a particular player in the draft? I may be grasping at straws but its what I choose to believe! Happy days.

Welcome to the nut house, but why now?

I am as annoyed as anyone with the result, but take some solace in the fact that we played so badly for 90% of the game, yet if we had capitalized on a few of the crucial moments that were there, we could have won.

Every team could say that about every game, it's a cop out.

As I said, I am as annoyed with the result (and thus the players, coaching staff... etc) as anyone else

If we are going to lose though I would much rather lose knowing that if a couple of small things went our way we would have won, than get belted off the park.

It'll improve them both.

I actually meant to write: it will not only improve them.

But really, they are good enough to do it, so improvement may not be the right word...

As I said, I am as annoyed with the result (and thus the players, coaching staff... etc) as anyone else

If we are going to lose though I would much rather lose knowing that if a couple of small things went our way we would have won, than get belted off the park.

This is the problem, the small things are exactly what is holding us back.

We don't to the small things that the good teams do. To be perfectly honest, the fact that we even have to ask our players to do these small things at the highest level is a disgrace.

As I said, I am as annoyed with the result (and thus the players, coaching staff... etc) as anyone else

If we are going to lose though I would much rather lose knowing that if a couple of small things went our way we would have won, than get belted off the park.

If they'd bothered to play in the first quarter, things would be incredibly different.

They didn't, we're still [censored], I'm fed up with it.

Hello All. First post. Thanks for the wonderful entertainment over the past years. I have vicariously enjoyed(for the larger part) the substantial distraction this forum supplies...It's always there for me, no matter what else is going on in my life. It's generally the first and last thing I look at each day(sick and depraved)! With respect to all opinions offered over yesterdays performance, I offer my idea as to the underwhelming display as follows: Is it possible that the players currently find themselves in the throes of a fully blow preseason within a season? further to the result (however unsavoury to contemplate) might it be that the recruiting staff have their hearts collectively set on a particular player in the draft? I may be grasping at straws but its what I choose to believe! Happy days.

Welcome - love the 4D name!

Did Hogan lose the Rising Star award yesterday?

Did Hogan lose the Rising Star award yesterday?

Cripps was always a shoe in.

Did Hogan lose the Rising Star award yesterday?

Yeah, he was trying to grab it but Gawn reached up from behind, spoiled him, and then Cripps picked it up and cantered off with it...

I am as annoyed as anyone with the result, but take some solace in the fact that we played so badly for 90% of the game, yet if we had capitalized on a few of the crucial moments that were there, we could have won.

Moments that spring to mind was the Salem missed goal late in the 3rd, which would have brought us within 3 goals at 3/4 time.

Then in last after getting 1st goal pretty quickly and on what to me seemed like a bit of a roll, Hogan/Gawn both went for the same easy mark in the goal square and spoiled each other (they bickered about it with each other for a fair while afterwards).

Should have been another easy goal.

Take both those opportunities and we would have been within a goal, with our tails up and I reckon things would have been different.

Not to be....

You cannot excuse that first half. The second half was irrelevant...

You cannot excuse that first half. The second half was irrelevant...

That second half was not irrelevant, it still doesn't excuse that first half - in fact it damns that first half - but it wasn't irrelevant.

I am not taking that away from Michie, Brayshaw, Watts, and a few others that tried to lift their teammates.

The sun came up today and I thought about some AFL players we have injured in the sheds and thought.....we'll be okay next year.

There will be a different bunch in the sheds all season next year, the same as there is every single other year, at this club where nothing works

There will be a different bunch in the sheds all season next year, the same as there is every single other year, at this club where nothing works

Gee C and B they really pi ssed you off yesterday.

I am as annoyed as anyone with the result, but take some solace in the fact that we played so badly for 90% of the game, yet if we had capitalized on a few of the crucial moments that were there, we could have won.

Moments that spring to mind was the Salem missed goal late in the 3rd, which would have brought us within 3 goals at 3/4 time.

Then in last after getting 1st goal pretty quickly and on what to me seemed like a bit of a roll, Hogan/Gawn both went for the same easy mark in the goal square and spoiled each other (they bickered about it with each other for a fair while afterwards).

Should have been another easy goal.

Take both those opportunities and we would have been within a goal, with our tails up and I reckon things would have been different.

Not to be....

That's the thing though, we have had many games this year where we couldshoulda maybe won it if a few things had gone our way. The reason they don't go our way continually is because we lack effort, we are weak, we are stupid and we are clumsy. As I said yesterday, watching cripps kick an easy one off the carpet due to the failure of our defenders, and moments later Hogan and Watts both miss easy set shots - illustrates the difference. We just stuff everything up.

Gee C and B they really pi ssed you off yesterday.

They certainly did mate

How true is it though? How far back do you have to go to find a season where we didn't have a bunch of our best 22 miss massive parts of the season. It is just par for the course every year.

No doubt it has something to do with the fact that our footy department has less budget than everyone else and therefore we pay the lowest for all the industry dregs that are our staff 'professionals' and the equipment etc and as such we have a bottom rung fitness/medical equation. If you are one of the better sports physios in the city why would you take a job with the Dees when the Hawks will pay you more. Very simple.