AFL Debt: out of control.

[T&W 38]

well, to be a little pedantic, all afl clubs depend on the afl for money. the biggest amount of money coming from tv rights goes to the afl, who in turn dish it out to all clubs.

but i take your point on the cost of maintaining our northern cousins

TV rights are dying the real judgement day will come when the AFL understand the value of the internet rights and begin to carve them up. I agree with Nisbett the strong are getting stronger. My prediction is the next CEO of the AFL will come from an ex-big 5 club. The big will swallow the weak. We had our chance to get one of our own up - but sadly his own knifed him in the back and are still twisting the knives today.

[jnrmac 20,186]

There is Good debt and Bad debt. The AFL have Good debt.

Our country had good debt until Hockey got his mitts on it.

That would be the most ignorant comment ever posted on this site.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,967]

That would be the most ignorant comment ever posted on this site.

Must be up there. Appreciated the laugh though.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Ethan Tremblay

[autocol 448]

Unfortunately, there will be very little change in the top 8 and bottom 8 in that time.

You should bookmark that and come back in a decade. Ludicrous assertion that history will show to be utterly incorrect.

[Little Goffy 14,639]

I love the comment in the article "Victorian clubs are responsible for half that debt", with the implication that there is a particular problem with Victorian debt.

Nevermind that Victorian clubs are slightly more than half the clubs.

That said, the disparity in club revenues is becoming a serious problem.

I do wonder though, at what point the rich clubs will simply run out of things to legitimately spend money on? Start throwing it around like the Gulf Oil states?

Coming soon, the Burj McGuire.

[Little Goffy 14,639]

You should bookmark that and come back in a decade. Ludicrous assertion that history will show to be utterly incorrect.

Although, in the last ten years, 60%+ of finals wins have been from just 6 teams... and the lowest 6 teams barely share 10% of finals wins between them.

[camillo 106]

That would be the most ignorant comment ever posted on this site.

No he's right and calling another poster ignorant without regard to his argument is just plain stupid in my opinion.

[camillo 106]

Parochialism be damned. This is our indigenous game, and should be Australia wide. Expansion clubs are part of that. They are going to absolutely suck up funds for some time. Unless the AFL is prepared to redistribute funds by taking from the rich and giving to the poor, it's going to be a progressively two tiered competition, which is NEVER going to draw crowds and support in new territories. They just don't get it though.

Before this competition went national we here in Melbourne and Geelong had one of the best competitions per head of population in the world. One of the key ingredients of it's success other than the game itself was the atmosphere created by having both teams supporters in the same ground. The problem with a national competition in this country is tyranny of distance and a small population which means 95 % of supporters can't travel to interstate games. Of course this suits TV executives that want you sitting on your bums in your lounge rooms watching ads.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Before this competition went national we here in Melbourne and Geelong had one of the best competitions per head of population in the world. One of the key ingredients of it's success other than the game itself was the atmosphere created by having both teams supporters in the same ground. The problem with a national competition in this country is tyranny of distance and a small population which means 95 % of supporters can't travel to interstate games. Of course this suits TV executives that want you sitting on your bums in your lounge rooms watching ads.

I think you're right. But as someone who lived for decades with one televised game a week on Channel 7 (usually involving Carlton) I'm a lot happier with the current situation, leaving the GWS vanity project aside.

I wonder what the competition would look like now, especially in terms of sponsorship, if things had stayed the same.

[Webber 10,538]

Before this competition went national we here in Melbourne and Geelong had one of the best competitions per head of population in the world. One of the key ingredients of it's success other than the game itself was the atmosphere created by having both teams supporters in the same ground. The problem with a national competition in this country is tyranny of distance and a small population which means 95 % of supporters can't travel to interstate games. Of course this suits TV executives that want you sitting on your bums in your lounge rooms watching ads.

That's true Camillo, and apparently the 'per head' stats still put Melbourne at the top of the pile worldwide. The 50/50 crowd balance is definitely a sacrifice to a truly national competition, but we still have a good proportion of games where that exists. Travel and technology allow for the tyranny of distance to be overcome, and there's never going to be a regression from that. It's the point where television really shows its value.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

I think you're right. But as someone who lived for decades with one televised game a week on Channel 7 (usually involving Carlton) I'm a lot happier with the current situation, leaving the GWS vanity project aside.

I wonder what the competition would look like now, especially in terms of sponsorship, if things had stayed the same.

There would have been 4 clubs left in Victoria with the other 7 wound up by the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs in the mid-1980s for trading while insolvent.

[jnrmac 20,186]

No he's right and calling another poster ignorant without regard to his argument is just plain stupid in my opinion.

It wasn't the first line I was calling ignorant but the second. And if you agree with that then I'll happily include you in the ignorant category as well

[deespicable me 1,498]

I have a solution.

Firstly relocate GWS to Tassie.

Secondly with the money saved build a boutique stadium that only holds 15 to 20,000 and make sure you can run it at a profit.

Then take all gate and TV money and equally distribute to clubs with caps on all spending.

Maximise the gate returns and TV returns by putting on the biggest games at the best times and best venues.

Scale the games ie Essendon v Collingwood tier 1

Richmond v Melbourne tier 2

Melbourne v GWS tier 3

This of course wouldn't be good for Melbourne Footy Club with maybe only 4 or 5 games at the G but bad luck, get better. get more competitive and get more members and you'll get better exposure.

Meantime the lesser clubs like ourselves aren't a drain on the competition.

By the way this plan has many flaws but I think it's worth noting in the overall debate.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

I have a solution.

Firstly relocate GWS to Tassie.

Secondly with the money saved build a boutique stadium that only holds 15 to 20,000 and make sure you can run it at a profit.

Then take all gate and TV money and equally distribute to clubs with caps on all spending.

Maximise the gate returns and TV returns by putting on the biggest games at the best times and best venues.

Scale the games ie Essendon v Collingwood tier 1

Richmond v Melbourne tier 2

Melbourne v GWS tier 3

This of course wouldn't be good for Melbourne Footy Club with maybe only 4 or 5 games at the G but bad luck, get better. get more competitive and get more members and you'll get better exposure.

Meantime the lesser clubs like ourselves aren't a drain on the competition.

By the way this plan has many flaws but I think it's worth noting in the overall debate.

Sorry, your biggest flaw is in the assumption that relocating GWS to Tassie would "save money". While it might reduce outgoings, the loss in TV rights revenue would dwarf any savings which might be made.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

Not really...

I don't think Western Sydney is a good location and as for Gold Coast no major team sport has ever succeeded there including our game when Brisbane were based there.

Name 2 other locations that have the biggest growing population within Oz that currently don't follow the game that has the potential to grow the game to new markets, bring in extra money thru a greater TV deals, showcase's the game to a new audience, get greater participation in the junior game which creates a greater pool of talent to choose from in the draft which creates a better standard of football.

More money

More talent

Better standard

Better game

SNAP

[Webber 10,538]

Name 2 other locations that have the biggest growing population within Oz that currently don't follow the game that has the potential to grow the game to new markets, bring in extra money thru a greater TV deals, showcase's the game to a new audience, get greater participation in the junior game which creates a greater pool of talent to choose from in the draft which creates a better standard of football.

More money

More talent

Better standard

Better game

SNAP

Hard to argue, and justifiable on pretty much any level. The other argument would have been that Western Sydney has historically been a rugby league area. Rugby League is not the first choice football code in any country, and by definition is an alternative at best. Thus the AFL would and should be confident that the appeal of our game is just inherently greater, to anybody. Maybe hubris, but we all know it's true :-). What they wouldn't necessarily have predicted is the rise of soccer and the Wanderers.

[sue 9,145]

One reason why the AFL should do all it can to make the struggling Melbourne clubs more successful is that that way there will be more games where there is a large crowd of opposing supporters which creates more interest, both at the game and on TV.

[Sir Why You Little 37,130]

Losing 2-3 Melbourne clubs won't stop the game growing around Australia.

GW$ may become successful but it will be long after i am dead.

Nought Melbourne turned down the offer to become Gold Coast and chose to stay at Etihad, a very dangerous and in some ways destructive decision in my opiion.

How much support should Nought get after being offered such a carrot. The Etihad deals are so bad, we all know this & a major reason i refuse to set foot in such a shoddy construction.

I used to love to away grounds and would still do it if they were allowed to exist.

If the AFL are serious about saving anything then the Etihad Dump must be bought outright tomorrow and "Home" team each week given a clean stadium.

I think the AFL want 3-4 clubs to die out but are doing it slow so that fans become conditioned to their fate.

The MFC was not far off joining Fitzroy. But i still believe we can rise again with planned and shrewdd management.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

It would be nice to see a simple analysis which shows the financial difference to the AFL of buying Etihad Stadium now versus the option of waiting until it falls into its lap for $1.

On the one hand, the early payment (did I read it would be something like $100 or $200 million?) allows for immediate renegotiation of stadium deals; on the other, its attractive to wait for a multi-million dollar property to land in your lap for basically nothing.

[Sir Why You Little 37,130]

It would be nice to see a simple analysis which shows the financial difference to the AFL of buying Etihad Stadium now versus the option of waiting until it falls into its lap for $1.

On the one hand, the early payment (did I read it would be something like $100 or $200 million?) allows for immediate renegotiation of stadium deals; on the other, its attractive to wait for a multi-million dollar property to land in your lap for basically nothing.

Meanwhile 2-3 clubs go to the wall.

I am sure it is what the AFL quietly want.

[T&W 38]

Meanwhile 2-3 clubs go to the wall.

I am sure it is what the AFL quietly want.

What you mean is 2-4 Victorian clubs will go to the wall.

You can bet your ass unless MFC grow their memberships to +60K, massively increase their core business revenues and attract +40K plus average crowds per week AFL patience will run out.

AD single-handily saved us on 2-3 occasions during his tenure but PM Gilligan is far more of a politician getting ready to drop the axe when his TV rights masters tell him.

[Sir Why You Little 37,130]

What you mean is 2-4 Victorian clubs will go to the wall.

You can bet your ass unless MFC grow their memberships to +60K, massively increase their core business revenues and attract +40K plus average crowds per week AFL patience will run out.

AD single-handily saved us on 2-3 occasions during his tenure but PM Gilligan is far more of a politician getting ready to drop the axe when his TV rights masters tell him.

I honestly think 18 clubs is too many

Yes the MFC has to get a lot better.

I think the AFL want us to survive but ultimately onfield results will determine the outcome

[dee-luded 2,959]

So could we save money by slashing the salary of Gill?

No.

edi'shat stadium

Looks like the AFL is going broke on the quiet. The figures quoted in this article mark the death knell of this code when the next economic bubble comes along. By the way, it's Australian Rules, not "AFL", that is an unfortunate and derogatory product name, (giving its lesser cousin NRL equal billing) In its haste to ward off the round ball code we got into 'start-ups' such as Brisbane, Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney which are essentially parasites living off the host organism. The expansion clubs have given us ugly jumpers and taken away local players. Apart from the drop kick, the biggest thing our code had going for it was its local and parochial flavour.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-clubs-delusional-says-west-coast-chief-20150317-1m1f8t.html

& this is just one more reason why the AFL must stop undermining the VFL competition, withdrawing players in August/September; etc. If the AFL was ever to fall over as a National code, the VFL needs to be strong, healthy with the utmost grass roots support base.

the last few years pulling players out of VFL finals teams is just Destroying the fabric of loyal fans faith in he game itself. & what it stands for!

Edited March 21, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

I honestly think 18 clubs is too many

Yes the MFC has to get a lot better.

I think the AFL want us to survive but ultimately onfield results will determine the outcome

I don't think it's the amount of clubs WYL, but more-so the salary's of the star players, taking to much of the pie, & the players union wanting so much of the take, when more needs to be spent on what the supporters want.

like boutique stadiums, like the one just built in Adelaide. & less Colosseum's,,, like the 'g' has turned into... no soul.

and on the regional areas.

a boutique stadium built at Dandenong should be on the planning board, & edi'shat should be sold, when the time comes that the afl own it. maybe buy it now & sell it for development, if the sums add up?

One central MCG, with boutique grounds at Geelong, Dandenong, Footscray, & regional stadiums at Ballarat & Traralgon, imo should be worked towards.

All stadiums should be on junctions of connecting train lines, for interstate & country supporters considerations, or they simply should Not be considered as sites for boutique grounds.

[T&W 38]

I honestly think 18 clubs is too many

Yes the MFC has to get a lot better.

I think the AFL want us to survive but ultimately onfield results will determine the outcome

Under AD absolutely no doubt he wanted us to survive under his tenure. However, things change .... we have a new leader and on Gilligans island the rules have changed.

If you think it all comes down to on-field success you clearly dont understand the landscape we live in. Sure on-field success will help but it wont save the MFC on its own.

I actually know the opposite the AFL have a very low respect for the MFC .... only time will tell is we can turn that around.