I hate posters who love taking the old 'I told you so' road. It makes you sound so petty.

At the end of 2012, and with the club in such a horrible spot, Howe was one of our bright spots. He still had deficiencies that he needed to overcome, but at 22 we still hoped and believed he would overcome those and turn into a terrific player. Time was on his side and to call for him to be traded then was ridiculous.

At 25 he has reached a crossroads - we know what he can offer when he is focused and on his game, and we know what he can't offer on the flip side of that. Unfortunately we've seen too much of that side this year, and whether that is down to him wanting out, or just out of form, is a point of conjecture. I'm hoping he lifts in the second half of the year as his first half of the year has been poor by his standards.

Well, if someone implies I'm jumping on the bandwagon, I bloody tell them I'm not. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

What did Frawley provide us up forward last year defensively or as a leading target? Writing was etched into the wall.

And I hope Howe stays as well and finds form and is given every opportunity to do so and thought the same two years ago but there's something going on and it's not Howe fighting for his next jumbo-sized pay-cheque.

At the end of 2012, I said he should be traded and was howled down...

I wasn't implying you were jumping on the bandwagon. I was implying that to assume you know why Roos is playing Howe for any other reason that he thinks it'll help us win games of footy is fanciful.

So is he being gifted games because he's not good enough or is he being gifted games because Roos is compromising the quality of our team in the hope of increasing his trade value?

And as aside, trading him 2012 would have been idiotic. If as a football club, we don't back ourselves in to improve the workrate and defensive abilities of a clearly talented player like Howe, then we should give up.

I wasn't implying you were jumping on the bandwagon. I was implying that to assume you know why Roos is playing Howe for any other reason that he thinks it'll help us win games of footy is fanciful.

So is he being gifted games because he's not good enough or is he being gifted games because Roos is compromising the quality of our team in the hope of increasing his trade value?

And as aside, trading him 2012 would have been idiotic. If as a football club, we don't back ourselves in to improve the workrate and defensive abilities of a clearly talented player like Howe, then we should give up.

I disagree with your first point then.

Secondly, I believe that the team will effectively be compromised for the rest of the season if he keeps him in. Do you disagree? He's bringing almost nothing to the table once the ball hits the ground, but you watch, he'll keep getting games.

Howe is an overrated, one dimensional forward with one trick and don't get me wrong. It's an elite trick, but marking can only get you so far in the modern game if you refuse to run and tackle.

And I thought at the time his trade value wouldn't get any higher, but turns out, inexplicably it hasn't dropped all that much in two years. His flaws are still pretty obvious to me and many others. It's not a case of giving up on the development of a player, it's a case of being realistic about what you've got and getting bang for your buck. If you can trade him and get in another good midfielder that will take the club forward, bloody do it.

Roos never coached Sylvia...

Given that Roos came after our eos and Sylvia was signed a few days after the free agency window opened I doubt Roos had anything to do with it all!

Apologies for the error.

Roos was, however, instrumental in getting the best deal possible for Sylvia. While this article suggests differently, Roos never had any intentions of keeping Sylvia...

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-09-06/i-cant-wait-to-start-roos

Then, after Sylvia announced he was leaving, Roos all but confirms it during this piece...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-03/sylvia-to-join-dockers

Roos was successful in getting maximum value for Frawley. He played him in the forward line to show an extra "element" of his game. Realistically, he got him out of the back line so he (Roos) had close to a full season of trialling other players that were going to be at the club for the next period of time. Sure, we had Clark and Dawes injured so we needed a KPF, but why didn't he play Dunn there for the season? He's a known goal kicker (has kicked 95 from 151 games). From memory, Dunn played a few quarters here and there early in the season, but Roos knew the defensive structure going forward, and that didn't include Frawley.

Now, we are seeing the same thing with Howe. Started the year down back, but has had an inconsistent start to the year - not great considering he's playing in the RPFC's "Easiest Position on the Ground". He was shifted forward against Geelong, due partly because of our lack of forwards for that game. Saturday night he stayed forward, even tough we had Hogan, Dawes and Spencer/Gawn.

I'm tipping Howe won't get dropped this week, as it's a great opportunity for him to play against an out of form team. I think Spencer will be dropped, and JKH to come in to play HFF, giving Howe a bit more room up forward to fly for marks. I think they will bring in Fitzpatrick to play back/2nd ruck, most likely on Daniher.

I don't care if some will say that I'm reading too much in to it (the Howe/Roos/trade situation), and will happily admit I was wrong if it doesn't turn out that way. But at this stage, I haven't seen anything to suggest that I'm off the mark, and I've been watching this for more than just this season.

I wasn't implying you were jumping on the bandwagon. I was implying that to assume you know why Roos is playing Howe for any other reason that he thinks it'll help us win games of footy is fanciful.

So is he being gifted games because he's not good enough or is he being gifted games because Roos is compromising the quality of our team in the hope of increasing his trade value?

And as aside, trading him 2012 would have been idiotic. If as a football club, we don't back ourselves in to improve the workrate and defensive abilities of a clearly talented player like Howe, then we should give up.

He was compromising the quality of our team by playing him in the backline, thus reducing his trade value.

When Kent, Salem, Petracca and JKH are fit/uninjured, where does Howe play?

Why do you think we are so keen to get Garland's signature? He can play the backline role that Howe has played in the past.

When Kent, Salem, Petracca and JKH are fit/uninjured, where does Howe play?

Casey

The same thing happened with Moloney. Some supporters simply couldn't see his glaringly obvious limitations. Probably the best decision Neeld ever made.

The same thing happened with Moloney. Some supporters simply couldn't see his glaringly obvious limitations. Probably the best decision Neeld ever made.

That's Jack Watts' fault!

The pack needs new prey.

I thought that was what Toumpas was for?

I thought that was what Toumpas was for?

Well it is hardly for his scintillating play most weeks Chris.

Well it is hardly for his scintillating play most weeks Chris.

How exactly is the new whipping boy chosen? I ask as you imply it is due to him not being scintillating in his play most weeks, many on our list fall into that category and surely you don't expect every player to be scintillating every week?

Does it purely come down to which draft pick a player was taken at or is there more to it?

The toump will show y'us all up!!!

He was compromising the quality of our team by playing him in the backline, thus reducing his trade value.

When Kent, Salem, Petracca and JKH are fit/uninjured, where does Howe play?

Why do you think we are so keen to get Garland's signature? He can play the backline role that Howe has played in the past.

How exactly is the new whipping boy chosen? I ask as you imply it is due to him not being scintillating in his play most weeks, many on our list fall into that category and surely you don't expect every player to be scintillating every week?

Does it purely come down to which draft pick a player was taken at or is there more to it?

If the truth be know Chris I would be happy with one scintillating player a week.

As you well know I am not a Toumpas fan. So far I have seen nothing above ordinary.

A no. 4 pick suggests you were in the top ten players of your draft year.

So far nothing shown by Toumpas suggests he is close to producing that level of performance at senior level.

If the truth be know Chris I would be happy with one scintillating player a week.

As you well know I am not a Toumpas fan. So far I have seen nothing above ordinary.

A no. 4 pick suggests you were in the top ten players of your draft year.

So far nothing shown by Toumpas suggests he is close to producing that level of performance at senior level.

So then it is the pick you are taken at in the draft that lines you up as a whipping boy.

By the way, I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of the Toump, I still have reasonable hopes though, as I have always had for Watts, which may be starting to come to fruition.

The state leagues are littered with failed high draft picks, it is very much a lottery looking for potential good senior players in the junior leagues.

So then it is the pick you are taken at in the draft that lines you up as a whipping boy.

By the way, I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of the Toump, I still have reasonable hopes though, as I have always had for Watts, which may be starting to come to fruition.

The state leagues are littered with failed high draft picks, it is very much a lottery looking for potential good senior players in the junior leagues.

A major ingredient I would think

If the truth be know Chris I would be happy with one scintillating player a week.

As you well know I am not a Toumpas fan. So far I have seen nothing above ordinary.

A no. 4 pick suggests you were in the top ten players of your draft year.

So far nothing shown by Toumpas suggests he is close to producing that level of performance at senior level.

i have faith in the Toump! he's lacking confidence in his body and skills, but barring any further injuries that should come with game time.

when he is on he fires darts right at the forwards face... Toumpas to Hogan!!! Goal!!!

i have faith in the Toump! he's lacking confidence in his body and skills, but barring any further injuries that should come with game time.

when he is on he fires darts right at the forwards face... Toumpas to Hogan!!! Goal!!!

Haven't seen it yet or on not enough occasions

Still waiting for him to get to the ball and pick it up cleanly without worrying who is about to tackle him. He doesnt look at the ball looks at the man>

Toumpas is a lost cause.

Those waiting for him to come good will have a better chance of seeing the second coming of Christ.

Toumpas is a lost cause? Noone thought that against stkilda the other week.

Stiff to be dropped his form has been building

Not sure of his contract status, but I'm a big fan of Levi Casboult.

If we can't manage to wrangle a decent pick of one of the midfielders up north, Howe for Casboult?

Toumpas is a lost cause? Noone thought that against stkilda the other week.

Stiff to be dropped his form has been building

I think that horrible turnover that resulted in a goal at a crucial time cost him.

He's just got to get that out of his game.

Toumpas is a lost cause? Noone thought that against stkilda the other week.

Stiff to be dropped his form has been building

Didn't play well against the Eagles.

i won't mention Ollie's best for Port last night either.