Training - Monday 23rd February, 2015

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Burgs interview with Salem, said it was going to be a light week this week leading up to the First NAB match against Freo.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Thanks for the training report as always TDI.

I'm generally more a lurker than a poster around here, but thought it was about time I chipped in with my thanks.

While I am here, I saw you at White Night. Walked past you and your lady at ~3am on Princes Bridge.

Almost didnt recognise you with the trimmed beard and no scooter!

Yes that would have been us, trekked home down Vic Parade as the sun came up ahead, going slightly off topic - best bit for me Ghostly Machines at Hamer Hall

I appreciate the thanks, but also realise that I am lucky to be able to attend training, as a lot can't because of other commitments, so like to provide a bit of commute/work/travel reading

[rpfc 27,634]

Actually with his size and speed he is quite happy playing forward, so is Harmes, both still learning the craft of AFL midfield, if Petracca hadn't done his knee, he would have been forward as well

Trenners 09 White has had a toe injury, think the strapping he had on it was more of a hindrance than help, got it changed

He may be 'happy' to do it, but it is certainly not the role he played for Ainslie nor one he was recruited for.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

He may be 'happy' to do it, but it is certainly not the role he played for Ainslie nor one he was recruited for.

I am sure if he doesn't crack a spot in the 22 for Rd 1 he will be playing midfield for Casey, not my decision to have him training with the forwards, been doing that since he arrived

Edited February 24, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[rpfc 27,634]

I am sure if he doesn't crack a spot in the 22 for Rd 1 he will be playing midfield for Casey, not my decision to have him training with the forwards, been doing that since he arrived

He wouldn't be ready to be in the middle for extended periods IMO. Too much he doesn't know, hasn't refined, and too many miles he needs to go in his legs.

It's the reason I hope he doesn't play much AFL this year.

[DeeSpencer 23,449]

He wouldn't be ready to be in the middle for extended periods IMO. Too much he doesn't know, hasn't refined, and too many miles he needs to go in his legs.

It's the reason I hope he doesn't play much AFL this year.

I'm not having a go at you because I often express similar thoughts, but that's a very Melbourne fan view point. Let's hope he's the next Barlow and dominates!!!

He's been training all summer, he's fit. He's played quality footy in a state league, he knows how to play. AFL uses an oval ball on an oval field with 18 men in a 360 degree game, nothing is refined. Well G Ablett is, but you can win a Brownlow being Priddis who cracks in, wins clearances and slams it forward and racks up footy in space.

I certainly doubt he's a master of modern stoppage football which has turned in to it's own art form combined with the sheer force guys like Selwood and Josh Kennedy use in there. And game plans are important, particularly defensive organisation and responsibilities. But I guess when you break the game down the under 12 basics are still the basics of AFL: provide an option, win the ball, use the ball, man up, contest to win the ball back.

I don't have huge expectations on him realistically, but it's about time we get surprised by one isn't it? I also see the half forward idea as a smart way to use his size and accumulation ability. He can play high half forward and it's really little different to midfield these days especially in a Roos game plan that pushes the half forwards around the ball. You learn defensive skills and contested skills just as well at half forward as midfield these days.

Fairly or unfairly I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing him play NAB challenge almost as much as any of our players because he's such an unknown. Maybe 5 weeks in to the season he'll be slowly developing in the VFL working on his game at an improved level from the NEAFL. But until then I'm going to enjoy one of the joys of being an MFC supporter and enjoy the ride!

[rpfc 27,634]

I'm not having a go at you because I often express similar thoughts, but that's a very Melbourne fan view point. Let's hope he's the next Barlow and dominates!!!

He's been training all summer, he's fit. He's played quality footy in a state league, he knows how to play. AFL uses an oval ball on an oval field with 18 men in a 360 degree game, nothing is refined. Well G Ablett is, but you can win a Brownlow being Priddis who cracks in, wins clearances and slams it forward and racks up footy in space.

I certainly doubt he's a master of modern stoppage football which has turned in to it's own art form combined with the sheer force guys like Selwood and Josh Kennedy use in there. And game plans are important, particularly defensive organisation and responsibilities. But I guess when you break the game down the under 12 basics are still the basics of AFL: provide an option, win the ball, use the ball, man up, contest to win the ball back.

I don't have huge expectations on him realistically, but it's about time we get surprised by one isn't it? I also see the half forward idea as a smart way to use his size and accumulation ability. He can play high half forward and it's really little different to midfield these days especially in a Roos game plan that pushes the half forwards around the ball. You learn defensive skills and contested skills just as well at half forward as midfield these days.

Fairly or unfairly I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing him play NAB challenge almost as much as any of our players because he's such an unknown. Maybe 5 weeks in to the season he'll be slowly developing in the VFL working on his game at an improved level from the NEAFL. But until then I'm going to enjoy one of the joys of being an MFC supporter and enjoy the ride!

I don't like it when mature age players are thrown into a role that they were not recruited for excelling at.

I have seen him play in the guts. Half forward is such a difficult place to play. That is all I am worried about from his perspective.

He comes in as a HF plays 50 mins gets 2 touches and nothing else and we are all calling him a failure.

Setting recruits up to succeed is what we are all about from what Roos and co. are saying.

I don't believe that involves playing Vandenberg out of position in his first year. As Vandenberg relyed to me, there have been no roles given to the first year players - they learn the basics, the gameplan, the non-negotiables, and if they are good enough in the VFL, they will play a similar role in the AFL.

Also, someone said that he could play midfield for Casey and then forward for Melbourne...

THAT is setting a bloke up to fail.

[mo64 5,245]

I don't like it when mature age players are thrown into a role that they were not recruited for excelling at.

I have seen him play in the guts. Half forward is such a difficult place to play. That is all I am worried about from his perspective.

He comes in as a HF plays 50 mins gets 2 touches and nothing else and we are all calling him a failure.

Setting recruits up to succeed is what we are all about from what Roos and co. are saying.

I don't believe that involves playing Vandenberg out of position in his first year. As Vandenberg relyed to me, there have been no roles given to the first year players - they learn the basics, the gameplan, the non-negotiables, and if they are good enough in the VFL, they will play a similar role in the AFL.

Also, someone said that he could play midfield for Casey and then forward for Melbourne...

THAT is setting a bloke up to fail.

Totally agree. We really lack genuine clearance players, and if Vandenburg impresses at Casey and is upgraded, I can't see why he wouldn't be part of the midfield rotation. At the moment I'd say he's competing with the likes of Michie and Newton, and if he impresses in the NAB Cup, he may get an early call up.

If he is selected, I'd rather see the likes of N.Jones and Tyson resting on a half forward, and giving him time in the middle.

[DeeSpencer 23,449]

I don't like it when mature age players are thrown into a role that they were not recruited for excelling at.

I have seen him play in the guts. Half forward is such a difficult place to play. That is all I am worried about from his perspective.

He comes in as a HF plays 50 mins gets 2 touches and nothing else and we are all calling him a failure.

Setting recruits up to succeed is what we are all about from what Roos and co. are saying.

I don't believe that involves playing Vandenberg out of position in his first year. As Vandenberg relyed to me, there have been no roles given to the first year players - they learn the basics, the gameplan, the non-negotiables, and if they are good enough in the VFL, they will play a similar role in the AFL.

Also, someone said that he could play midfield for Casey and then forward for Melbourne...

THAT is setting a bloke up to fail.

Disagree with that. CHF is really tough to play. Half forward is very tough to play for Melbourne 2012-2014, but in a half decent side isn't as hard. If you don't focus on possession totals and instead focus on doing the little things right you can make an impact. JKH in year 1, Kent in year 2 and a limited player like Bail had their shares of good games last year playing half forward. Riley had some moments as well even when not fully fit. High half forward you pretty much come up to all stoppages and then just spread forward and defend your man on the way out a bit differently to the midfield. A limited player like Magner will struggle, but if Vandenberg makes it he will have more strings (he already has more height and possibly more footskills) than Magner. All the good sides slot developing players in to half forward before they get midfield minutes - think Brad Hill and Langford from Hawthorn and Jake Lloyd and Cunningham from Sydney.

I think he'll be judged from his form at Casey. If he plays well there then he's had a good year. Yes he might not be in his best position at AFL level but you don't hand the reigns of the engine room over to a rookie from the NEAFL. So if he shows signs forward he'll get a shot in the midfield.

[rpfc 27,634]

Disagree with that. CHF is really tough to play. Half forward is very tough to play for Melbourne 2012-2014, but in a half decent side isn't as hard. If you don't focus on possession totals and instead focus on doing the little things right you can make an impact. JKH in year 1, Kent in year 2 and a limited player like Bail had their shares of good games last year playing half forward. Riley had some moments as well even when not fully fit. High half forward you pretty much come up to all stoppages and then just spread forward and defend your man on the way out a bit differently to the midfield. A limited player like Magner will struggle, but if Vandenberg makes it he will have more strings (he already has more height and possibly more footskills) than Magner. All the good sides slot developing players in to half forward before they get midfield minutes - think Brad Hill and Langford from Hawthorn and Jake Lloyd and Cunningham from Sydney.

I think he'll be judged from his form at Casey. If he plays well there then he's had a good year. Yes he might not be in his best position at AFL level but you don't hand the reigns of the engine room over to a rookie from the NEAFL. So if he shows signs forward he'll get a shot in the midfield.

If he is only going to play forward for Melbourne in the AFL in 2015, why bother playing him in the middle for Casey? Play him in the same role for the seconds so that when he steps up, he knows what is expected of him.

That is what I would say if I was a decision maker at the club.

As someone who wants the best for Aaron - it would be best if be played in the middle at Casey and if there happens to be a spot in the rotation for Melbourne available and his form is good enough - he should play there. Let Bail, JKH, Kent, Howe, and/or Watts play this amorphous 'half forward' role.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

If he is only going to play forward for Melbourne in the AFL in 2015, why bother playing him in the middle for Casey? Play him in the same role for the seconds so that when he steps up, he knows what is expected of him.

That is what I would say if I was a decision maker at the club.

I agree, but at the same time I'm sure he is not unhappy with developing a well rounded game. I think that training with the forwards is an attempt to make him a more well rounded player and he will move into the midfield group at a a latter stage. Especially seeing as he had missed the december sessions.

He will then be able to fill the role in the fwd line or midfield dependent on what is required for the team

[Ted Lasso 17,109]

Tdi, the beauty of swimming is it removes the impact/ jarring that you get from running, it sounds to me like the game plan involves everyone's running levels to be much higher than last year and the club wants them to be cherry ripe in that sense.

Both the lads can play the fitness is something the whole club needed to improve

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Gee some supporters really do need to move their footy to 2015, I want maybe, 1 ruck, 1 key defender and 1 key forward and then the rest be able to fill any position thrown at them, I think this is what Roos wants as well, if any player is played forward that Demonland determines to be a midfielder and vice versa (there has been some clamouring for Kent to rotate through the midfield), then there must be a valid reason for it

They all practice stoppage work, they are expected to do their bit

[the grint 71]

Any training today TDI?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Any training today TDI?

No they played basketball with Chris Anstey, Tom Mc and Sam Frost starred according to Anstey's twitter!!

Anstey is a good mate of Roos...don't know how

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Surely in that game in which Vandenberg picked up 800 or so touches for Ainslie, he was playing in the midfield?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Surely in that game in which Vandenberg picked up 800 or so touches for Ainslie, he was playing in the midfield?

On his first day at training, when he was being introduced around, Dawes came stomping over and shook his hand vigorously and said "you the guy who got 56 touches for Ainslie", Vandenberg agreed to which Dawes replied "Dad doing the stats that day"....nice, showed him it counted for nothing now

I have chatted to Vandenberg, he is a midfielder but he is also a fair size and has speed, so he is comfortable playing forward, like all of them he would have a go at ruck if it meant getting a game

[rpfc 27,634]

Gee some supporters really do need to move their footy to 2015, I want maybe, 1 ruck, 1 key defender and 1 key forward and then the rest be able to fill any position thrown at them, I think this is what Roos wants as well, if any player is played forward that Demonland determines to be a midfielder and vice versa (there has been some clamouring for Kent to rotate through the midfield), then there must be a valid reason for it

They all practice stoppage work, they are expected to do their bit

I am quite enlightened about how much football has changed in the past few years...

But the ball still needs to go forward, and players still need to do something with it when its there and someone has to get it there in the first place.

So while a player might have a number of roles in his head, he still needs to know what to do when put in the place on the ground they spend most of their time.

First year players are by definition behind others with knowing what to do in 'any position.'

As for all players doing stoppage practice - that would be because stoppages happen all over the ground. There is no position foreign to a role in a stoppage.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I am quite enlightened about how much football has changed in the past few years...I

But the ball still needs to go forward, and players still need to do something with it when its there and someone has to get it there in the first place.

So while a player might have a number of roles in his head, he still needs to know what to do when put in the place on the ground they spend most of their time.

First year players are by definition behind others with knowing what to do in 'any position.'

As for all players doing stoppage practice - that would be because stoppages happen all over the ground. There is no position foreign to a role in a stoppage.

I think that is why I am seeing the improvement at training and a bit of it in the Intraclub and why the players are responding better, Roos has stripped it right back, get it forward at all costs, doesn't matter how you do it, and once it is up the other end, if you don't score, keep it there

Most tend to think most of the players are meatheads, even it they are, if it is simple most players can grasp it

The club is actually blessed with some really good students of the game, Nev Jetta, Garland, Watts, Dawes

[rjay 24,041]

No they played basketball with Chris Anstey, Tom Mc and Sam Frost starred according to Anstey's twitter!!

Anstey is a good mate of Roos...don't know how

Probably through basketball, Roos was (is) a pretty handy player.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Probably through basketball, Roos was (is) a pretty handy player.

Thanks chap, don't follow the hoops, but know Chris Anstey when he rocks up at training, for some reason he is easily recognisable, been to about four or five sessions

Tommy Mc is beside himself when he was there, probably loved this morning, Petracca must be fuming, massive hoops fan

[mo64 5,245]

I think that is why I am seeing the improvement at training and a bit of it in the Intraclub and why the players are responding better, Roos has stripped it right back, get it forward at all costs, doesn't matter how you do it, and once it is up the other end, if you don't score, keep it there

Most tend to think most of the players are meatheads, even it they are, if it is simple most players can grasp it

The club is actually blessed with some really good students of the game, Nev Jetta, Garland, Watts, Dawes

Not sure about that. Roos ripped into Salem during one of the match practice drills for playing on and kicking long after taking a mark. Even though Salem's teammate took a contested mark from the resultant kick, Roos deemed that he should have waited and looked for other options that were less contested. Roos is all about taking the right option, not necessarily getting it forwards at all costs.

And your last comment is all very well if they intend becoming coaches down the track, because it counts for diddly squat on match day.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Not sure about that. Roos ripped into Salem during one of the match practice drills for playing on and kicking long after taking a mark. Even though Salem's teammate took a contested mark from the resultant kick, Roos deemed that he should have waited and looked for other options that were less contested. Roos is all about taking the right option, not necessarily getting it forwards at all costs.

And your last comment is all very well if they intend becoming coaches down the track, because it counts for diddly squat on match day.

You are kidding with that one right, so you don't want Dawes 'coaching' Hogan during games, or Garlo marshalling the defence

Getting it forward with the best option (if you must nitpick) , hopefully with the improved running it will be the first and quickest option

[rpfc 27,634]

And your last comment is all very well if they intend becoming coaches down the track, because it counts for diddly squat on match day.

David Parkin, Stan Alves, Alistair Clarkson, Nick Maxwell, and Brendan Bolton all stressed recently at a recent coaches conference that onfield coaches were important.

Bolton intimated it was a competitive edge that Hawthorn had as Sam Mitchell and Luke Hodge were extensions of the coaches box.

[mo64 5,245]

You are kidding with that one right, so you don't want Dawes 'coaching' Hogan during games, or Garlo marshalling the defence

Getting it forward with the best option (if you must nitpick) , hopefully with the improved running it will be the first and quickest option

TBO, Hogan looks like he knows what he's doing and Garland needs to find a spot in the team..

It's not nitpicking, because it's not all about getting it forwards at all costs. If the best option is a kick sideways, then that's what the player should do.