Angus Brayshaw's Commitment.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Really? I had thought there were issues with Michie's disposal.

[Samael 560]

Has Viv been training in the midfield group or backline?

I thought his last game where he was playing off a half back showed some real promise. His kicking is such a weapon you just need the ball in this guys hand to set us up.

I reckon he will be played in a defense role for the very reasons you suggest. He can get the ball and is extremely reliable in his disposal. His last game against Nth Melb last year showed his potential when he shut down Cunnington who went on to win the Roos B&F. Viv could surprise a few this season.

[Machsy 2,858]

Has Viv been training in the midfield group or backline?

I thought his last game where he was playing off a half back showed some real promise. His kicking is such a weapon you just need the ball in this guys hand to set us up.

Viv Michie's kicking is "a weapon"?

Which Viv Michie have you been watching?

He's an adequate kick at best. There's about 20 players on the list that would be better kicks.

Terlich is probably a better kick. Mind-boggling comment.

[Roger Mellie 3,971]

I would dispute that.

Michie is a good, reliable kick.

Terlich is not.

[dazzledavey36 54,234]

Viv Michie's kicking is "a weapon"?

Which Viv Michie have you been watching?

He's an adequate kick at best. There's about 20 players on the list that would be better kicks.Terlich is probably a better kick. Mind-boggling comment.

The Terlich comment just proves AGAIN your lack of general knowledge on certain players and the game itself. An unbelievable comment.

Name me the 20 players please.

Edited January 4, 2015 by dazzledavey36

[Machsy 2,858]

Michie is capable of safe little chip kicks, or simple kicks down the line, but a "weapon"?

You've gotta be kidding.

Terlich for one, suffers from attempting to execute kicks to ill-advised targets, that his level of precision can't always achieve, but I think he has more skill. He's not necessarily a better decision maker.

I will start a list: Watts, Toumpas, Salem, JKH, N Jones, Viney, Hogan, Garland, Lumumba, Garlett, Vince, Tyson, King, Brayshaw, Petracca, Dunn, Stretch, Kent, Newton, Howe & Jetta.

I put Michie on about the same level as Bail.

[dazzledavey36 54,234]

Michie is capable of safe little chip kicks, or simple kicks down the line, but a "weapon"?

You've gotta be kidding.

Terlich for one, suffers from attempting to execute kicks to ill-advised targets, that his level of precision can't always achieve, but I think he has more skill. He's not necessarily a better decision maker.

I will start a list: Watts, Toumpas, Salem, JKH, N Jones, Viney, Hogan, Garland, Lumumba, Garlett, Vince, Tyson, King, Brayshaw, Petracca, Dunn, Stretch, Kent, Newton, Howe & Jetta.

I put Michie on about the same level as Bail.

Lol Garland? while a good defender he can turn it over a bit coming out of defence.

Viney needs to work alot on his kicking. He is exactly like Nathan Jones was early his career. Please..

Petracca and Brayshaw needs to polish up their kicking both were in the 60% disposal effiency in the under 18s champs and so does Stretch aswell. Watch their highlights.

Kent while a good kick on the run for goal he too is another that just needs to polish up his field kicking.

I would put him in the same category as Dom Tyson.

To compare his kicking to Terlich was outrageous, to then compare it to Bail is laughable.

[Machsy 2,858]

Sorry for having an opinion that doesn't match yours.

Michie's exposed kicking so far has been average.

He hits easy straightforward targets for the most part and nothing more.

To label it a "weapon" is wrong in my opinion.

You've picked holes in the kicking of other players who I never said were perfect, but I'm yet to see anyone say what makes Michie such a damaging kick or when he has displayed this.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Lol Garland? while a good defender he can turn it over a bit coming out of defence.

Garland is a very accurate and penetrating kick. No doubt he turned it over a bit last season but I will excuse. He had a poor season off the back of injury and no pre-season. When his confidence grows back this season he will be a very reliable kick again.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Michie's kicking is similar to Judd's, I would say. He is ok at stabbing it short to targets but isn't a creative kick, nor a long and accurate kick. He is good enough for an on-baller.

[jnrmac 20,053]

Garland is a very accurate and penetrating kick. No doubt he turned it over a bit last season but I will excuse. He had a poor season off the back of injury and no pre-season. When his confidence grows back this season he will be a very reliable kick again.

I think we should have a swear jar for every time someone excuses a player for 'no pre-season'.

I agree with C&B. Its mostly bunk. Dom Tyson had a great year with little of no pre-season. It may mean a player has a poor first 6 weeks or so but a whole season is more of a fragile mental state IMO.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

Has Viv been training in the midfield group or backline?

I thought his last game where he was playing off a half back showed some real promise. His kicking is such a weapon you just need the ball in this guys hand to set us up.

Viv Michie isn't a backmans A-hole.

Could be a decent mid, but will never make a backman - nor should he even be tried there.

I see Michie solely as a midfielder, so based on that, he should be tried forward - because all ELITE mids can push forward, he'll have to learn to be a good mid.

Dane Swan is the perfect example of a limited footaller making the most of his ability, Swan is now a very dangerous forward - he could play forward alone and be an asset.

Leave the half back to mids like Toumpas and Salem, blokes who are better suited down back - than up forward.

[dazzledavey36 54,234]

Viv Michie isn't a backmans A-hole.

Could be a decent mid, but will never make a backman - nor should he even be tried there.

I see Michie solely as a midfielder, so based on that, he should be tried forward - because all ELITE mids can push forward, he'll have to learn to be a good mid.

Dane Swan is the perfect example of a limited footaller making the most of his ability, Swan is now a very dangerous forward - he could play forward alone and be an asset.

Leave the half back to mids like Toumpas and Salem, blokes who are better suited down back - than up forward.

Ok but if he isn't a backmans [censored] but Toumpas and Salem are?

Toumpas has never even played half back at his time at the Dees and neither has Salem so I don't know where you base that on

Edited January 6, 2015 by dazzledavey36

[dazzledavey36 54,234]

Garland is a very accurate and penetrating kick. No doubt he turned it over a bit last season but I will excuse. He had a poor season off the back of injury and no pre-season. When his confidence grows back this season he will be a very reliable kick again.

Sorry for having an opinion that doesn't match yours.

Michie's exposed kicking so far has been average.

He hits easy straightforward targets for the most part and nothing more.

To label it a "weapon" is wrong in my opinion.

You've picked holes in the kicking of other players who I never said were perfect, but I'm yet to see anyone say what makes Michie such a damaging kick or when he has displayed this.

Sorry but I disagree with the part of being exposed. Because the exposure I saw with Michies kicking skills were that they hit their targets majority of the time. Go and watch the GWS and West Coast game up in Perth and you will see he was hitting long targets 40m away.

You gave me 20 names that you mentioned were were far better kicks then Viv. I picked holes because to prove to you that your myth of ''20 blokes that are far better kicks then Viv'' is just plain wrong.

Then you say he hits easy straight forward targets.. err so does Lumumba, JKH, Toumpas, Tyson, King Jones and so on out of your list of 20 that are supposable better kicks. Rohan Bail and Dean Terlich every now and then struggle to hit a target 20m out.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

Ok he isn't a backmans [censored] but Toumpas and Salem are?

Toumpas has never even played half back at his time at the Dees and neither has Salem so I don't know where you base that on

Toumpas played as a backman in the SANFL - and looked brilliant doing so. In addition he has the tools to make a fine half back flanker.

Salem proven to be damaging in the juniors off half back - changing as a mid. Very good by foot. Actually Very good might even be selling him short - exceptional.

I understand you might think Viv is a backman, but IMO he has limited tools to excel in that position. Time will tell, feel free to re-bump me if I am wrong.

Apologies to all for further railroading this Brayshaw thread.

[rjay 24,853]

Terlich for one, suffers from attempting to execute kicks to ill-advised targets, that his level of precision can't always achieve, but I think he has more skill. He's not necessarily a better decision maker.

I think this is the thing that will kill off his career if he can't address it.

Toumpas played as a backman in the SANFL - and looked brilliant doing so. In addition he has the tools to make a fine half back flanker.

Not so sure about this the only games I watched (senior finals in his first year) he was playing as a half forward.

[dazzledavey36 54,234]

Toumpas played as a backman in the SANFL - and looked brilliant doing so. In addition he has the tools to make a fine half back flanker.

Salem proven to be damaging in the juniors off half back - changing as a mid. Very good by foot. Actually Very good might even be selling him short - exceptional.

I understand you might think Viv is a backman, but IMO he has limited tools to excel in that position. Time will tell, feel free to re-bump me if I am wrong.

Apologies to all for further railroading this Brayshaw thread.

Pretty sure Toumpas was a half forward wingman for the eagles. While Salem played a lot of his TAC cup as an on baller he was only rotating off half and midfield in the championships. So maybe his exposure there might be limited but I did call for Salem to rather be used off a half back then a forward last year. Get the ball into his hands as much as possible. Seriously think he was wasted up forward.

I too would love to see Toumpas off half back. Again get the ball into his hands as much as possible. Seriously the last couple of years our main distributers of half back has been Grimes Terlich and Garland.. Doesn't fill anyone with a lot of excitement.

I think Viv can be quite versatile his game against North off a half back quite exceptional and I was really impressed.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I think we should have a swear jar for every time someone excuses a player for 'no pre-season'.

I agree with C&B. Its mostly bunk. Dom Tyson had a great year with little of no pre-season. It may mean a player has a poor first 6 weeks or so but a whole season is more of a fragile mental state IMO.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!

usually you are a good poster, but a full pre season or no pre seasoncan have major effects on a players season. Just because you can say 2-3 players who were able to miss pre season were able to play well, it is less likely that they will play 22 consistent games and their season is likely to be hindered by such time on the sidelines.

Viv Michie isn't a backmans A-hole.

he did play his best game for the MFC as a back flank and played quite well for Casey in this position.

Players under Roos need to continue to add strings to their bows and hopefully this is his

[jnrmac 20,053]

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!

usually you are a good poster, but a full pre season or no pre seasoncan have major effects on a players season. Just because you can say 2-3 players who were able to miss pre season were able to play well, it is less likely that they will play 22 consistent games and their season is likely to be hindered by such time on the sidelines.

I'm not sure we are in disagreement. It can impact a players season of course. But the universal 'he's had no pre-season therefore we can excuse his performance that was below par' is frankly rubbish. It may mean a player runs out of puff as his fitness is not up to scratch in the first half of the season but to then excuse a poor second half is for mine largely an excuse. With rotations today players can still perform for bursts and have a rest.

It's not just about running, its about attitude and commitment when they are on the ground. Garland to me is a reasonable example. Had minor ankle surgery but resumed mid pre-season. Had a really poor year IMO - not fitness wise but kicking efficiency, one on one contests, positioning etc. Most here excused him as he did not have a full pre-season. I have other ideas that are not fitness related.

It is interesting to note he is tearing it up on the track this pre-season so I will watch with interest.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

I'm not sure we are in disagreement. It can impact a players season of course. But the universal 'he's had no pre-season therefore we can excuse his performance that was below par' is frankly rubbish. It may mean a player runs out of puff as his fitness is not up to scratch in the first half of the season but to then excuse a poor second half is for mine largely an excuse. With rotations today players can still perform for bursts and have a rest.

It's not just about running, its about attitude and commitment when they are on the ground. Garland to me is a reasonable example. Had minor ankle surgery but resumed mid pre-season. Had a really poor year IMO - not fitness wise but kicking efficiency, one on one contests, positioning etc. Most here excused him as he did not have a full pre-season. I have other ideas that are not fitness related.

It is interesting to note he is tearing it up on the track this pre-season so I will watch with interest.

You make a good point on Garland. I think a full pre-season gives players more time to concentrate on all areas of their game.

Whereas a limted pre-season they might only concentrate on a few areas - maybe even one, fitness.

Players know they'll be caught out on matchday if they can't run out a game, so it makes sense they'd focus on cardio - perhaps neglecting sklls, strength and core work.

It is the same with Scully at the GWS, I was reading he had a limited time on the track this year, then comes out and wins their trial. Now this means absolutely nothing about Scully's level of improvement, because he has always been a good runner. Scully needs to improve areas other than cardio - especially skill work. A limited pre-season mightn't afford him that luxury.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I'm not sure we are in disagreement. It can impact a players season of course. But the universal 'he's had no pre-season therefore we can excuse his performance that was below par' is frankly rubbish. It may mean a player runs out of puff as his fitness is not up to scratch in the first half of the season but to then excuse a poor second half is for mine largely an excuse. With rotations today players can still perform for bursts and have a rest.

It's not just about running, its about attitude and commitment when they are on the ground. Garland to me is a reasonable example. Had minor ankle surgery but resumed mid pre-season. Had a really poor year IMO - not fitness wise but kicking efficiency, one on one contests, positioning etc. Most here excused him as he did not have a full pre-season. I have other ideas that are not fitness related.

It is interesting to note he is tearing it up on the track this pre-season so I will watch with interest.

I agree that it shouldnt excuse players for poor form as I believe that players who are feeling the effects that a lack of pre season will cause should be spending time in the twos.

I guess Garland is further proof of the fact that it could hinder performance and if he does come out and play a good season it highlights the benefits that come with a full pre season, if not then it highlights that he is on the decline.

Obviously when talking about time off over pre season someone like Vince would not be effected as majorly as leg injuries that prevent the running. Vince missing contact drills is not exactly the biggest issue, but the distinction that pre season or lack there of does not have an impact on player performance is something that is clearly untrue, but it shouldnt be used as an excuse.

[angrydee 842]

Roos in his post season interview pointed out that one of the reasons for the poor last third of the season was that there were a number of players who had very limited preseasons. Without a preseason players become fatigued very quickly as the season progresses - not the reverse.

And it's sn explanation, not an excuse.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,345]

Pretty sure Toumpas was a half forward wingman for the eagles. While Salem played a lot of his TAC cup as an on baller he was only rotating off half and midfield in the championships. So maybe his exposure there might be limited but I did call for Salem to rather be used off a half back then a forward last year. Get the ball into his hands as much as possible. Seriously think he was wasted up forward.

I too would love to see Toumpas off half back. Again get the ball into his hands as much as possible. Seriously the last couple of years our main distributers of half back has been Grimes Terlich and Garland.. Doesn't fill anyone with a lot of excitement.

I think Viv can be quite versatile his game against North off a half back quite exceptional and I was really impressed.

Im not familiar with the junior footy played by any of Salem/Toumpas/Michie but I'm excited by the fact that the club has told the players positions on the flanks are up for grabs. I'm assuming they're meaning back and forward flanks. Roos is a smart operator and would have identified the need for elite kicking off half back but as we know last year we were limited for options for various reasons. There has been some discussion about who would be best suited to this role, I'd say give them all a crack. Geelong had Kelly and Bartell who could go back as well as play midfield(Bartell can be dangerous forward as well) and Stevie J and Chappy play forward and midfield. They were such a good side over 5/6 years( yes they're still good now but not what they used to be) it was like they had unlimited options, shut a few of them down and the others stand up. Hopefully we are moving away from having 2 tall defenders, 1 third versatile tall, 1 small then have 2 more mid-tall defenders. It's too much of the same. We're all rapt that our defence improved last year, and it can get better again. The more options we have the better, if we just have one and he becomes injured were back to where we were. If H is having a run in the midfield the back six could line up like

Jetta Frost Dunn

Toumpas T-Mac Salem

Rotate them through.

[CBDees 3,167]

Im not familiar with the junior footy played by any of Salem/Toumpas/Michie but I'm excited by the fact that the club has told the players positions on the flanks are up for grabs. I'm assuming they're meaning back and forward flanks. Roos is a smart operator and would have identified the need for elite kicking off half back but as we know last year we were limited for options for various reasons. There has been some discussion about who would be best suited to this role, I'd say give them all a crack. Geelong had Kelly and Bartell who could go back as well as play midfield(Bartell can be dangerous forward as well) and Stevie J and Chappy play forward and midfield. They were such a good side over 5/6 years( yes they're still good now but not what they used to be) it was like they had unlimited options, shut a few of them down and the others stand up. Hopefully we are moving away from having 2 tall defenders, 1 third versatile tall, 1 small then have 2 more mid-tall defenders. It's too much of the same. We're all rapt that our defence improved last year, and it can get better again. The more options we have the better, if we just have one and he becomes injured were back to where we were. If H is having a run in the midfield the back six could line up like

Jetta Frost Dunn

Toumpas T-Mac Salem

Rotate them through.

Interesting post on the 'Brayshaw' thread but it makes sense. It would be nice to see how the backline that you have nominated goes. It could surprise many (especially opposition supporters)!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,345]

Interesting post on the 'Brayshaw' thread but it makes sense. It would be nice to see how the backline that you have nominated goes. It could surprise many (especially opposition supporters)!

Yeah I know, the discussion had already started....

Next year might be to early to have both of them there at once, but could be an option in the future. At least the club looks to making the move, multiple option being the key.