OD any links to what was presented yesterday?

I was being factious Cards

Maybe someone has to open the paper bags and count the moorland?

from big footy http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tribunal-told-bombers-texted-each-other-about-%E2%80%98thymo%E2%80%99-injections.1084216/page-7 #159

• On 2 August 2011 Dank forwarded a text message to Robinson stating: Hi mate. Just in consult for a shoulder reconstruction. This case will be of interest to you. We are utilizing Thymosin post surgically for one shoulder but prophylactically for the other. Thymosin is so effective in soft tissue maintenance. Dank was referring to Thymosin Beta-4 and not Thymosin Alpha as the functions of Thymosin Beta-4, but not Thymosin Alpha or Thymomodulin, include tissue regeneration and recovery functions.
• On 23 August 2011 Dank forwarded a text message to Robinson stating: Don’t forget how important Thymosin is. This is going to be our vital cornerstone next year. It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier. Dank was referring to Thymosin Beta-4 and not Thymosin Alpha as the functions of Thymosin Beta-4, but not Thymosin Alpha or Thymomodulin, include tissue regeneration and recovery functions.
• Prior to 26 November 2011 Dank informed Charter that he needed Thymosin Beta-4.
• On 26 November 2011 Charter travelled to Shanghai, China in order to procure the raw materials for peptides including Thymosin Beta-4.He procured those raw materials from GL Biochem (Shanghai) Ltd (GL Biochem).
• On 1 December 2011 Dank forwarded a text message to Robinson stating Collingwood is on TA65
• On 1 December 2011 Dank forwarded a further text message to Robinson stating: I am planning with [Alavi] at the moment. We are planning something better.
• On 1 December 2011 Charter initiated inquiries with GL Biochem for a second order of peptides.
• Between 1 December 2011 and 8 December 2011 Charter ordered raw materials for the second purchase of peptides including the raw materials for Thymosin Beta-4.
• Charter’s order did not contain Thymosin Alpha.
• Charter only ever procured Thymosin Beta-4 for Dank, not Thymosin Alpha.
• On 2 December Charter returned to Melbourne from Shanghai with the raw material in respect of the first purchase of peptides including Thymosin Beta-4.
• On 11 January 2012, Charter forwarded a text message to Dank stating: Which peptides do you need (compounded) next?
• In his reply Dank requested “Thymosin Beta 4 and “CJC-1295”
• Charter then queried: what sort of quantities?
• Dank replied to Charter stating: Thymosin 20 of 5ml vials.
• Charter then forwarded a text message to Alavi stating: Hi Mate. Thymosin – 20 x 5ml vials. Steve's request.
• On 12 January 2012, Charter emailed a document to both Dank and Alavi which described “How to Use TB-500 (Thymosin Beta 4)”. The document described the optimum means by which to prepare, administer and store Thymosin Beta-4. Within the body of the accompanying email Charter asked Dank to check the document to ensure his concurrence with the protocols suggested “so we can make [the Thymosin Beta-4] up accordingly”. The document contained the statement that it was “For research purposes only”.
• Within Charter’s document it is recommended that Thymosin Beta-4 be administered subcutaneously, at the optimum frequency of “one vial per [subcutaneous] injection per week for 6 consecutive weeks, then 1 vial per month”. The frequency rate of administration for ‘Thymosin’ on the players’ “Patient Information/Informed Consent’ form is ‘1 Thymosin injection once a week for six weeks and then 1 injection per month”.
• The Club was then billed by Alavi for 26 vials of “peptide Thymosin” (at a combined cost of $9860) which are listed on the invoice as having been delivered on 18 January 2012.

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

Nope. No evidence there at all.

Aside from the text messages, emails, invoices, consent forms, and so forth showing Dank only ever ordered (and was only ever provided) with TB4, actively sought how to administer TB4 and then proceeded to administer 'thymoisin' (a term he himself used to describe TB4 in conversations with Alavi and Charters).. at the exact frequency and in the exact method one would administer TB4.

The 'comfortable satisfaction' of this little black duck is met.

from big footy http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tribunal-told-bombers-texted-each-other-about-%E2%80%98thymo%E2%80%99-injections.1084216/page-7 #159

The gentlemen from the constabulary will be around shortly DC

Fancy publishing comments from the secret trial.

You are in big trouble!

The gentlemen from the constabulary will be around shortly DC

Fancy publishing comments from the secret trial.

You are in big trouble!

Ha ha. But since there are no penalties that I am aware of for blabbing about what happens at an AFL tribunal (except maybe players and officials who have signed up to some AFL document) anyone else can blab without fear of any consequences.

Edited December 16, 201410 yr by sue

Ha ha. But since there are no penalties that I am aware of for blabbing about what happens at an AFL tribunal (except maybe players and officials who have signed up to some AFL document) anyone else can blab without fear of any consequences.

Just a little humour there about the AFL sue

Just a little humour there about the AFL sue

Yes, I did start my email with a hearty 'ha ha'.

But more seriously, the point I was making is that there is no reason not to expect lots of leaks from the tribunal - will be like paddling in a barbed wire canoe.

Yes, I did start my email with a hearty 'ha ha'.

But more seriously, the point I was making is that there is no reason not to expect lots of leaks from the tribunal - will be like paddling in a barbed wire canoe.

Sue - I haven't been able to keep as close an eye on things as I would like but there doesn't seem to have been too many leaks from day 1, perhaps because the prosecution (i.e. ASADA) has been putting forward its case which, given the fact that it's going to take a whole three days, suggests that it's comprehensive and detailed. I heard some of the anti ASADA proponents on radio over the weekend were suggesting the case was on the brink of collapse because of the refusal of a few of the main characters to give evidence. But let's face it we all know why Dank, Robinson, Charter and Alavi aren't exactly lining up to tell their stories and yet the only thing that we've heard from the Essendon side is that these characters won't be giving evidence. The way things are going the entire defence is going to rely on the "vibe".

As Chip Le Grande Bouffe put it, this case will depend on whether the Tribunal believes the players swallowed:-

A. The bad thymosin;

B. The good thymosin or

C. Thymomodulin

And Chip tweeted today -

"Let me make this clear: The players would not know one thymosin from another. They only signed up after they were told it was cleared."

You only need to check what B. & C. are proscribed for and you'll get the picture. The players obviously didn't despite all of the education they're supposed to be getting from the AFL.

The rest of us have swallowed BS from the Essendon camp for far too long.

The saga continues ...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-in-doctor-shopping-to-beat-ban-20130722-2qf3x.html

Forgotten about this nice little article.

"Mr Alavi was supplying peptides Thymosin Beta 4 and Hexarelin, both banned by WADA because of their performance-enhancing effects, to former Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank. Essendon Football Club invoices suggest both substances were supplied to the club. Mr Dank has strenuously denied giving players anything illegal or harmful."

Ess thought they could get around the 'not approved for human consumption' barrier by having the drugs prescribed by a doctor. Surely then ASADA has all the prescriptions that were supplied to the chemist Alavi?

Sue - I haven't been able to keep as close an eye on things as I would like but there doesn't seem to have been too many leaks from day 1, perhaps because the prosecution (i.e. ASADA) has been putting forward its case which, given the fact that it's going to take a whole three days, suggests that it's comprehensive and detailed....

If that quote that Daisycutter posted is not a leak, someone has done a lot of work constructing it. What is you view of it WJ?

It should never be up to the accused to prove their innocence. The system should always be innocent until proven guilty no matter how heinous the crime or how much you hate the person on trial.

If ASADA can't prove it, then the players shouldn't be punished. Of course, if they can prove it, then the bans should be weighty and reflective of the seriousness of the offence.

There is circumstantial evidence indicating guilt it's not as if they just decided to pick a club out of a hat and go after them. They dont have positive tests but they don't need to, they have a circumstantial case so it is now up to the players to refute that case and provide evidence as to why the circumstantial evidence is incorrect.

If that quote that Daisycutter posted is not a leak, someone has done a lot of work constructing it. What is you view of it WJ?

I don't think it's a leak but rather comes from the AFL charges against Essendon on governance issues from August, 2013.

Maybe Gil the Dill is doing some due dill-igence........ getting the rest of the world ready for what we have always suspected is coming.

Only Essendon die-hirds still think the future's bright !!!

I don't think it's a leak but rather comes from the AFL charges against Essendon on governance issues from August, 2013.

I don't recall that level of detail in what was published at the time. Either my memory is failing or perhaps it was in stuff not disclosed at the time?

I don't recall that level of detail in what was published at the time. Either my memory is failing or perhaps it was in stuff not disclosed at the time?

Yeah WJ is right, all that info is taken from the EFC Notice of Charges from August 2013 - if you click the link in the post it will take you to the report.

EDIT - not that you'd know it from following the Essendon cheerleaders in the media who have tried to bury and obfuscate at every opportunity.

Edited December 16, 201410 yr by Dr. Gonzo

For those who think that we've seen everything ASADA have ...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...-afl-doping-saga/story-fnca0u4y-1227158596462

"
THE AFL doping scandal is wider than previously revealed, with ASADA accusing Essendon players of taking a second banned substance and sports scientist Stephen Dank of trafficking peptides to club officials at the Gold Coast Suns and Carlton and covering up doping by a Gold Coast footballer.

An outline of ASADA’s case and other documents currently before a specially convened AFL tribunal allege that Dank supplied banned substances including human growth hormone to a Carlton coach and provided the banned peptide CJC-1295 to more than one official at the Gold Coast Suns.

Dank is also accused of covering up the use of CJC-1295 — the substance at the centre of the Cronulla doping case — by Gold Coast defender Nathan Bock.

ASADA has not initiated proceedings against Bock, who retired from the AFL earlier this year.

Despite ASADA’s belief that Essendon footballers were given Hexarelin as well as the banned peptide Thymosin Beta-4 during the 2012 season, doping charges against 34 current and former Essendon players relate only to Thymosin Beta-4.

The charges involving Carlton relate to a high-profile coach no longer working at the club. ASADA alleges that Dank provided one or more of human growth hormone, SARMs, Hexarelin, Mechano Growth Factor and CJC-1295 to the coach between March and October 2012.

The charges involving the Gold Coast Suns predate the Essendon scandal. ASADA alleges that in December 2010, when Dank and high-performance coach Dean Robinson were employed by the AFL franchise club, Dank covered up “the use or attempted use of a prohibited substances, namely CJC-1295, by a player at the Gold Coast Suns”.

I imagine this has been asked/answered previously but can someone confirm who is hearing the case? There is a retired County Court judge but is he presiding on his own?

He is clearly not an AFL crony, so that surely works in the favour getting a just outcome.

I imagine this has been asked/answered previously but can someone confirm who is hearing the case? There is a retired County Court judge but is he presiding on his own?

He is clearly not an AFL crony, so that surely works in the favour getting a just outcome.

THE JUDGES

David Jones QC (chair, retired judge)

John Nixon (retired judge)

Wayne Henwood (former Sydney player, barrister)

THE anti-doping watchdog’s star witness has sensationally turned on the agency by holding secret talks with lawyers for the Essendon players.

In a stunning twist, Shane Charter has met Tony Hargreaves to discuss potential weaknesses in the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’s case against the Bombers.

ASADA v ESSENDON: EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW

CHARTER CAN’T BE FORCED TO TESTIFY

SECRET EMAIL SHOWS ASADA’S JOB LURE

Charter made no apologies, saying: “I am neither ASADA’s witness nor Essendon’s.”

The long-awaited AFL tribunal hearing into allegations 34 current and former Bombers took a banned drug starts today. It will proceed without Charter and another key witness, Nima Alavi, after ASADA lawyers failed to convince the Supreme Court the pair could be subpoenaed.

The pair has given evidence to ASADA but refuses to testify. But in an interview with the Herald Sun, Charter said he did not consider himself an ASADA witness and saw no reason why he should not help the players.

“I’m not ASADA’s witness, I was merely providing information,” he said.

“Tony Hargreaves has had the opportunity to discuss some issues that were unclear and also to clarify the chronology of the peptides ordered.

“There were a number of flaws in ASADA’s case and it was going to be hard for him to fill in the gaps if I wasn’t turning up.”

Charter agreed to speak with the lawyers after he was approached.

Asada did not offer Charters enough it seems

Hird and his apologists in News Limited are at it again, all the time trying to destroy ASADA's case in the Court of Public opinion. I was talking to a very senior investigator the other day, an ESSENDON supporter, but a reasonable and very knowledgable man, and his angle on it was that without having these three key witnesses in court , and therefore have the ability to cross examine tham,that the ASADA case will collapse. I think that is now the Little line too.

I have said all all along that I don't believe anything will be resolved in Australian courts or through the AFL Tribunal processes. It will end up in Switzland at the CAS after WADA's appeal, well away from the politics and grandstanding which has been the hallmark of this episode all along.

Justice will be done.

I would have thought no dank, No Alavi, No Charters actually hurts Essendon, not ASADA. ASADA have their evidence. Essendon will find it hard to refute or offer anything else substantiable as their corroborating witnesses wont show up.

What i worry about is how the media are getting us used to this whole "backdating" of the penalties, so whatever penalty received will be backdated to the issue date of the infraction notice, which makes absolutely no sense seeing they've still been training, participating in international rules games etc. 2 years down to 6 months, backdated really is about 2 weeks. The same Essendon supporters crying about how dodgy the AFL are will be crying tears of joy when the AFL master dealer maker Gil, makes sure the TV rights deal isn't effected and allows cheats to get slapped on the wrist. At that point I'll probably go back to watching local footy.

What i worry about is how the media are getting us used to this whole "backdating" of the penalties, so whatever penalty received will be backdated to the issue date of the infraction notice, which makes absolutely no sense seeing they've still been training, participating in international rules games etc. 2 years down to 6 months, backdated really is about 2 weeks. The same Essendon supporters crying about how dodgy the AFL are will be crying tears of joy when the AFL master dealer maker Gil, makes sure the TV rights deal isn't effected and allows cheats to get slapped on the wrist. At that point I'll probably go back to watching local footy.

why ? The media arent running this, they only think they are.

why ? The media arent running this, they only think they are.

There's been leaks the whole time. Why would it stop now? I sincerely hope this isn't how it pans out, but all these AFL matters seem to follow a formula through the media. The same happened with us when we "didn't tank".

There's been leaks the whole time. Why would it stop now? I sincerely hope this isn't how it pans out, but all these AFL matters seem to follow a formula through the media. The same happened with us when we "didn't tank".

AFL and EFC leaks are one thing.

Ex-County Court judge leaks are another. And they are the guys that count here.

There's been leaks the whole time. Why would it stop now? I sincerely hope this isn't how it pans out, but all these AFL matters seem to follow a formula through the media. The same happened with us when we "didn't tank".

Leaking is the domain of the media or those that seek to gain in some manner. The AFL is runinng the Tribunal under direction by ASADA.

Nothing we did , or didn't do, came under the auspices of any WADA code. Essendon and its proxies ( aka the Hun ) are running a campaign to influence. it will fail because those making the determinations are not the public, or essendon but ultimately WADA itself.