Putting Grimes in the leadership group is like some posters naming him on the bench, some kind of constellation prize. If being part of the leadership group means so much as one extra meeting a year than he shouldn't be in it. He's currently busting his backside to be best 18, he can lead by the way he trains and attempts to play. He needs to focus 100% on salvaging his career.Some changes regarding your career could make a difference in your resources. This could involve a pending raise or promotion or opportunities for freelance work outside the job. It might imply a new job, perhaps in a creative field. Whatever work you do is likely to seem more emotionally rewarding than it has been, Taurus. This should boost your spirits considerably.

Jack, born May 11. Horoscope.com says:

"Some changes regarding your career could make a difference in your resources. This could involve a pending raise or promotion or opportunities for freelance work outside the job. It might imply a new job, perhaps in a creative field. Whatever work you do is likely to seem more emotionally rewarding than it has been, Taurus. This should boost your spirits considerably."

Perhaps he'll take up photography...

Nice work, fact remains the only group Grimes needs to concern himself with is the group he's currently training with.

Putting Grimes in the leadership group is like some posters naming him on the bench, some kind of constellation prize. If being part of the leadership group means so much as one extra meeting a year than he shouldn't be in it. He's currently busting his backside to be best 18, he can lead by the way he trains and attempts to play. He needs to focus 100% on salvaging his career.

'Constellation'...this gave me a good ole laugh...I was imagining him seeing stars!

Jack took captaincy very seriously and there is every chance that he took the loses and set-backs of the last few years personally...not it being his fault but that he couldn't lead his team our of the mire, either by his own performance or motivating his team.

I would like to see him in the LG. Different times and people, I know but I didn't like it when Green went from captain to no-where. I just feel we need to give the right message through behaviour and treating our ex-captains with more respect is one such way. We didn't do it with Junior and Green; we are somewhat doing it with Trengove and I hope we do so with Grimes. So hope to see him in the LG.

For mine:

Jones ©

Dawes. (VC)

Dunn

Grimes

Vince

Viney

For mine:

Jones ©

Dawes. (VC)

Dunn

Grimes

Vince

Viney

D2014 - Where do you see Cross fitting in? Our form dropped markedly when he was injured in the second half of the season, he is known as one of the most professional players in the league and he has an active role in mentoring the young players.

Last year's leadership group was: Jones, Grimes, Dawes, Dunn, Garland, Cross and Frawley. For the sake of stability I would like to see minimal changes: we now have a stable off-field, stable coaching so I would like a stable LG.

Would also like the same 'rules' to players getting a game apply to LG. ie you need to earn your spot and do so well enough to dislodge an incumbent. While there are other players I would like in LG and there are plenty of potential leaders among the young brigade for mine no-one has really stood out and 'passed' this 'test'. Lets give the young guys a year or two to just enjoy their footy. Their day will come.

I'm not sure we need 7 in the LG so Frawley going leaves 6. Garland may opt to drop out as this is free agent year and concentrate on his game.

Jack took captaincy very seriously and there is every chance that he took the loses and set-backs of the last few years personally...not it being his fault but that he couldn't lead his team our of the mire, either by his own performance or motivating his team.

I would like to see him in the LG. Different times and people, I know but I didn't like it when Green went from captain to no-where. I just feel we need to give the right message through behaviour and treating our ex-captains with more respect is one such way. We didn't do it with Junior and Green; we are somewhat doing it with Trengove and I hope we do so with Grimes. So hope to see him in the LG.

Respect is earnt so if he has earnt the respect of the playing group why does he need a title to go with it? This bloke is at serious risk of not being best 18 (I say 18 because I'm not sure what use a mid size defender in the bench is). I'm under no illusion he's a great bloke but right now he doesn't need any distractions. I won't look at him differently if he's not in the leadership group but I can't say the same if he continues to butcher the footy.

D2014 - Where do you see Cross fitting in? Our form dropped markedly when he was injured in the second half of the season, he is known as one of the most professional players in the league and he has an active role in mentoring the young players.

whilst i cannot speak for D2014, I think that not all players need to be in the leadership group to lead and Crossy is probably in this boat, especially since i think he will only play 12-14 games this year at a maximum.

Last year's leadership group was: Jones, Grimes, Dawes, Dunn, Garland, Cross and Frawley. For the sake of stability I would like to see minimal changes: we now have a stable off-field, stable coaching so I would like a stable LG.

The LG is simply the individuals chosen by the players to lead them - it will change when those individuals change, there really shouldn't be restrictions placed on who is in that group. If there are restrictions, then you might find that the it is not a proper reflection of the leaders of the playing group.

Pick the LG every year and the captain every year - you will find there isn't much change anyway...

Putting Grimes in the leadership group is like some posters naming him on the bench, some kind of constellation prize. If being part of the leadership group means so much as one extra meeting a year than he shouldn't be in it. He's currently busting his backside to be best 18, he can lead by the way he trains and attempts to play. He needs to focus 100% on salvaging his career.

I'm not for or against Jack Grimes being in the leadership group. But I suspect he can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Apologies. In hindsight I think that cliche above belongs on the "cliches which should be banned" thread.

Saty - There has been some discussion on Matt Jones - doesn't really scream "leader" to me but I only see him from afar on game day. You see him at training. Your thoughts ?

No, I asked him about his form this year, has done every session, his words paraphrased "I like to go under the radar, prefer it that way", don't think he has any leadership aspirations at all, he is part of a group of Newton, Michie, Jones, Bail et who just do every session with the minimum of fuss

The talk of Jack Viney in the leadership group, no, maybe in a couple of years, even he says he still has so much to learn, give him a break, got to establish himself in the 22 yet

Matt Jones is massively underrated here.

Matt Jones is massively underrated here.

No doubt he is, but as TDI just posted - he might be one of those blokes that just want to do their thing and not be encumbered by titles.

If he cuts down on the Critical Errors (across half back) - he could be a very solid player.

Matt Jones is massively underrated here.

I agree with that, not sure where he fits now though, will probably be competing for a wing or bench spot, bit like Bail, can run all day and probably fill a role without standing out, knows where to run and is a neat kick, just read rpfc's post, I tend to disagree with the kicking from defence over the last couple of years, a lot of that has to do with the kick receivers, to use an American term, Roos has had them working on this since day 1 of pre season, you watch now and you have multiple receivers, if first and best option is not taken we reset and the receivers reset as well

Matt Jones is massively underrated here.

Certainly by me.

Average on his good days.

I agree with that, not sure where he fits now though, will probably be competing for a wing or bench spot, bit like Bail, can run all day and probably fill a role without standing out, knows where to run and is a neat kick, just read rpfc's post, I tend to disagree with the kicking from defence over the last couple of years, a lot of that has to do with the kick receivers, to use an American term, Roos has had them working on this since day 1 of pre season, you watch now and you have multiple receivers, if first and best option is not taken we reset and the receivers reset as well

Further to this.

Whilst not downplaying those that are highly skilled kicks and those that are "average", it has been my opinion that when your teammates give you multiple options and can be those three or four steps ahead of their opponents AND when the kicker has absolute confidence that he knows where his teammate is going to run to - disposing efficiently becomes infinitely easier.

Certainly by me.

Average on his good days.

Matt Jones has plenty of upside. Can find the ball, run with the ball and is serious competitor who keeps trying all day. Like others, his disposal can let him down. However, overall was a very good pick-up and hats off to the recruiting staff for identifying that he had potential to play senior footy. Adds depth to the list and final 22. Happy to see him fight for a place. He seems to have a good attitude and happy to be given a crack with the Dees.

I agree with that, not sure where he fits now though, will probably be competing for a wing or bench spot, bit like Bail, can run all day and probably fill a role without standing out, knows where to run and is a neat kick, just read rpfc's post, I tend to disagree with the kicking from defence over the last couple of years, a lot of that has to do with the kick receivers, to use an American term, Roos has had them working on this since day 1 of pre season, you watch now and you have multiple receivers, if first and best option is not taken we reset and the receivers reset as well

Personally, I love playing with players like Matt Jones. Brave, solid skills, turn of speed, consistent, but when you are that type of player, the thing that will differentiate yourself from the other 5 or 6 that can do the same thing is skill execution in important areas of the ground and times of the game.

A few of the things that Matt did last year are (not so) affectionately called 'coach killers' and it is a shame that he is defined by these brain fades but until he eradicates them - he is vulnerable.

Matt Jones is massively underrated here.

Would quadruple like if could

The only blokes to have played more games for us over the past two years is the other Jones and Howe. Watts and Dunn have played two less than Matt. He has come fourth and twelfth (?) in the Bluey and yet some on here claim that he has struggled for a spot in the top 22.

He may not enjoy the same success in the future but whoever replaces him in the team will need to better 20 possessions a game.

Matt's record is not too shabby for a footballer who has only played two years of AFL

I'm not for or against Jack Grimes being in the leadership group. But I suspect he can walk and chew gum at the same time.

No doubt he can but many on here will tell you his poor disposal can be attributed to the pressures(perceived or otherwise) of being made the captain. Whether or not you buy into that I would have thought the right thing to do by him is to relinquish his off any extra responsibilities, just let him live or die on his ability to play footy.

No doubt he is, but as TDI just posted - he might be one of those blokes that just want to do their thing and not be encumbered by titles.

If he cuts down on the Critical Errors (across half back) - he could be a very solid player.

Kicking efficiency jumped 11% this year and moved to above average in the kick rating (from prospectus). I agree though, he needs to keep cutting out those costly errors, but definitely under rated