Ok, you're Roos and you don't have a functioning midfield - what is more value to you;

1. A CHB, pushed/pulled out of the backline on around 6% of the salary cap?

OR

2. Pick 3 in the ND that can be used to acquire a ready made midfielder or a midfielder of the future?

I think there is grey here - Dunn was a free agent but very wanted by the club, he stayed.

I really question how highly Frawley was rated by Roos and co.

It wasn't how he was rated, it was "Can we do without him?" And that is what 2014 was about. Shift him forward and see how the backline copes. Frawley was great one on one but disposal was and still is poor!

In an open market Petracca is not worth pick one but that's what he will go for. Against the other draft hopefuls Frawley's value is well and truly a pick one, he's a proven player and with Clark probably the most valuable player traded this year unless Dangerfield really does come into the mix.

Of course he is! Will be a gun!

I have no doubt Frawley will return to AA form at the Hawks and be one of the best defenders in the comp for the next 5 years. Look at the shambles of a club he has played at for the last 3 seasons and the lack of care/will he had in 2012. This year he played mostly up forward.

As above, still a very poor disposer of the pill and that hurts!

So in the absence of FA do we have a better chance of landing a decent mid by trading out Frawley or trading pick 3?

ND3 is worth more than Frawley.

The top 5 picks in the draft is where good recruiters find stars of the game.

Frawley is not a star of the game.

ND3 is worth more than Frawley.

The top 5 picks in the draft is where good recruiters find stars of the game.

Frawley is not a star of the game.

ND3 is worth more than Frawley.

The top 5 picks in the draft is where good recruiters find stars of the game.

Frawley is not a star of the game.

Like Cale Morton absolute star

But on a serious note i'd rather trade pick 3 and a maybe pick 22 for Dangerfield

ND3 is worth more than Frawley.

The top 5 picks in the draft is where good recruiters find stars of the game.

Frawley is not a star of the game.

But he is ahead of those kids now and fills a need for the Hawks to remain in contention so for now he is far more valuable.

But he is ahead of those kids now and fills a need for the Hawks to remain in contention so for now he is far more valuable.

Agreed and additionally for the Hawks and Cats, they get their ladder determined draft spot PLUS the two best available players in Chip and MC, effectively picks 1 and 2!

How can the lower teams compete with that?

In my mind this is an embarrassment for the AFL.

I believe the club has been told we have pick 3

But he is ahead of those kids now and fills a need for the Hawks to remain in contention so for now he is far more valuable.

'Remain in contention' - do you mean 'keep winning flags?'

They would never give up something commensurate to ND3 while they are as good as they are for Frawley. They also wouldn't have ND3 would they?

They don't need him, they are doing just fine without him, and if we asked for something akin to ND3, they would move on to the next bloke in their list, or they would pry him out through the draft at Pick 19.

'Remain in contention' - do you mean 'keep winning flags?'

They would never give up something commensurate to ND3 while they are as good as they are for Frawley. They also wouldn't have ND3 would they?

They don't need him, they are doing just fine without him, and if we asked for something akin to ND3, they would move on to the next bloke in their list, or they would pry him out through the draft at Pick 19.

That we will never know because they don't have to, they can just cherry pick free agents and trade in others like Gunston.

If the Bulldogs just got pick 26 for Higgins ( 7 games in 2014, low salary, not in first 22), then there is little chance we will only get 22 for Frawley.

Yeah it would be a very bad look.

That we will never know because they don't have to, they can just cherry pick free agents and trade in others like Gunston.

Exactly. The biggest myth in football is Hawthorn's "fabulous" trading. Pretty easy to get the likes of Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake and Gibson when they refuse to go anywhere else.

I pose the question, are Hawthorn the games largest parasites? (inflammatory language intended)

Add their ability to attract players that other teams have put the hard yards into to the fact their home training ground VFL park once belonged to the wider football community, now it is theirs.

Also add that we built the G but now its their home ground too (along with the lesser parasites)

Add the money they "receive" from Tassie.

All up they "poach" other teams players, are gifted the communities VFL park, use ours for home games and are paid money by a state in which they are not even based.

Pretty smart way of doing business it seems.

A quote I heard recently in a non football sense was "the goal in life is not to own the land but to control the land". The Hawks have done a great job in controlling assets that they don't own or even necessarily developed.

Let the pot shots begin............

You answered your own question! They are smart and have a very good business model.

Hawthorn have only become a power in recent times. Prior to the 80's they were a struggling club. The 70's saw their rise, the 80's confirmed their strength, and recent times have embedded themselves for decades to come. They have a massive supporter base who now demand success, not hope for it.

There was a time the Hawks wished to be a club like ours, the tables have turned.

I believe the club has been told we have pick 3

you believe, or you have been told? Big difference in terms of my excitement.

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by The Song Formerly Known As

I pose the question, are Hawthorn the games largest parasites? (inflammatory language intended)

Add their ability to attract players that other teams have put the hard yards into to the fact their home training ground VFL park once belonged to the wider football community, now it is theirs.

Also add that we built the G but now its their home ground too (along with the lesser parasites)

Add the money they "receive" from Tassie.

All up they "poach" other teams players, are gifted the communities VFL park, use ours for home games and are paid money by a state in which they are not even based.

Pretty smart way of doing business it seems.

A quote I heard recently in a non football sense was "the goal in life is not to own the land but to control the land". The Hawks have done a great job in controlling assets that they don't own or even necessarily developed.

Let the pot shots begin............

The AFL is a business and Hawthorn are good businessmen. Far from being parasites..

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by Ethan Tremblay

I pose the question, are Hawthorn the games largest parasites? (inflammatory language intended)

Add their ability to attract players that other teams have put the hard yards into to the fact their home training ground VFL park once belonged to the wider football community, now it is theirs.

Also add that we built the G but now its their home ground too (along with the lesser parasites)

Add the money they "receive" from Tassie.

All up they "poach" other teams players, are gifted the communities VFL park, use ours for home games and are paid money by a state in which they are not even based.

Pretty smart way of doing business it seems.

A quote I heard recently in a non football sense was "the goal in life is not to own the land but to control the land". The Hawks have done a great job in controlling assets that they don't own or even necessarily developed.

Let the pot shots begin............

And their coaches of Clarkson, Fagan, Bruce, Yze as well as formerly Biffen, Davis, Viney, Connolly, Evans ( official), which club were they all from?

The hawks have been built on handouts,they have sold more home games then the dees staints and north put together, they where gifted old vic park, but the dees where offered the west pac centre frist but the then president sozndy knocked it back,, he thought we could not mantain the cost

The AFL will let clubs know 'provisionally' on the condition they don't get any FAs in. We are the club that asked for this from what I have heard.

If we do not intend to bring any FAs in, we can know what Frawley will get us within 24 hours of him leaving.

Yeah, that's great that we "provisionally" have pick 3, that can taken away from us if we bring in another FA...

But this FA stuff all happens during trade week.

What happens if we trade pick 3 out, and then bring in a FA the next day?

The trade gets reversed and our pick downgraded?

The FA contract gets rejected by head office?

As I said, poorly thought out.

FA should be its own market between clubs, the AFL shouldn't be getting involved. Therefore the spirit of FA still exists- as in a player has an opportunity to leave and find success, but the successful clubs that want that FA still have to outbid each other for the players services.

This gives the player the right to seek greener pastures, but not exclusivity rights to one particular club who can monopolise the system. End result- the FA can still move for success after they've nominated at least 2 clubs that they're interested in, and those clubs still have to give something up to the original team to acquire them.

Trade isn't restricted and the strong don't stay strong as they are still a part of a give and take system.

What happens if we trade pick 3 out, and then bring in a FA the next day?

I read somewhere the other day that once that pick is traded, you can't acquire any free agents.