I don't really consider McCartin a lock at 3. Roos knows how desperate we (fans) are to start playing competitively sooner rather than later. I'd like him, though he looks sluggish to me on his highlights reel, but what the hell do I know? Wouldn't be surprised if we pull someone out of the hat at 3.

Question: if we do recruit Mc Cartin how many games will he play in 2015?

I agree. Its hard to judge a player from a video but I don't get the love for him. I would be surprised if we take him,

If we get McCartin he wont make an immediate impact for a very simple reason.He wont be allowed to. Roos won't let him out there till hes put at least half a dozen magoo efforts under his belt and put his hand up.

Why do you say this, Roos actions don't necessarily show that to be right. JKH played the first game last year.

If we take McCartin and he shows plenty in preseason then there is no reason he won't play first game.

Of course you can but the really good ones make an impact early in their careers. Brown, Brereton, Lockett for example made an impact early.

The good thing about Hogan and McCartin is they are hard at it competitors (mongrels), a thing they share in common with the above players. I reckon it's these types that make it early.

Jeremy Cameron is another that made an early impact but I wouldn't put him in the mongrel category although he is no shrinking violet when it comes to standing his ground.

They are still a rarity.

And as to immediate impact - the three you have selected are perfect examples

Locketts breakout came in season two round one with 7 goals. Brereton played his whole first season home and away series in the 2nd's debuting in the finals series and Brown's first season was pedestrian up until his last game where he collected 23 possies and kicked 2 goals.

Even the greatest CHF of all time, Wayne Carey - four games in season one.

This whole "ready to go from round one" is a dream rather than reality.

Edited November 24, 201410 yr by nutbean

If we get McCartin he wont make an immediate impact for a very simple reason.He wont be allowed to. Roos won't let him out there till hes put at least half a dozen magoo efforts under his belt and put his hand up.

What? You mean they won't debut on QB?? It could be twice the hoopla!

Why do you say this, Roos actions don't necessarily show that to be right. JKH played the first game last year.

If we take McCartin and he shows plenty in preseason then there is no reason he won't play first game.

Why do "I" say it..... because I'm just repeating what our coach has said from day dot upon arrival.

He lets them earn their debut and ongoing participation. He doesnt put the spotlight ( read blowtorch ) on the kids he lets them develop.

McCartin WONT have played much REAL footy. I don't put a much weight into this TAC and other kiddie ball rubbish ..Its almost like touch footy ffs. He'd need to aclimatise to 'normal' footy fist imho getting used to some more 'focused' attention by backs and in numbers; something he just wouldn't get at the kindergarten level.

I cant see Roos playing a KPF straight up. You might..I dont

I do expect Brayshaw to start early(ish ) but even then...off a bench, most likely as a sub

Edited November 24, 201410 yr by beelzebub

McCartin's size and skills indicate he's a very capable forward, it all depends on how quickly he can build his engine and remain free of injury over the preseason.

I'd have no problem him starting Rd 1 in the forward pocket along side MAxy with Hogan out at CHF... if he comes on over preseason.

Why do you say this, Roos actions don't necessarily show that to be right. JKH played the first game last year.

If we take McCartin and he shows plenty in preseason then there is no reason he won't play first game.

If Pedersen, Gawn, Hogan, and Fitzpatrick are available - I don't see why we would bring in McCartin.

I have no doubt that he is a talent but he will not provide more than any of those four in his first game. He would have to have an exceptional pre-eason tournament to play Rd 1, even with Dawes out.

I am sick of gifting games to kids.

I'd rather have a look at mccartin in training and nab cup before writing him off for round 1

He might well be a saint in any case

If Pedersen, Gawn, Hogan, and Fitzpatrick are available - I don't see why we would bring in McCartin.

I have no doubt that he is a talent but he will not provide more than any of those four in his first game. He would have to have an exceptional pre-eason tournament to play Rd 1, even with Dawes out.

I am sick of gifting games to kids.

Maybe apart from Hogan, he is better. Gawn is a ruck, Pedersen & Fitzpatrick depth.

Now for one thing we might not even have McCartin and if we do I wouldn't be ruling a line through him just yet. I wouldn't be gifting games to Pedersen, Gawn or Fitzpatrick because they've been around a while.

I am sick of gifting games to players who don't deserve it be they kids or experienced campaigners.

Why do "I" say it..... because I'm just repeating what our coach has said from day dot upon arrival.

He lets them earn their debut and ongoing participation. He doesnt put the spotlight ( read blowtorch ) on the kids he lets them develop.

That's right, he doesn't expect them to be saviours but he doesn't rule them out of developing at senior level either.

Roos has been quoted as saying a lot of things and then it's 'Demonland' law that Roos does this or Roos does that.

I judge him more on his actions. Roos does play first year players, first game in the AFL. It doesn't mean McCartin will or McCartin won't.

If we go on 'Demonland' law we won't take McCartin and at least 3 of our picks will be used for senior players not kids.

It would be ideal for McCartin to almost play the entire year in the VFL. All u-18 kids in Vic don't get the chance to play against men and the bigger bodies, unlike in the WAFL and SANFL.

Give him a year playing against the bigger bodies, his transition in to AFL will obviously go up again from VFL to AFL, but it won't be as big a jump. Maybe give him a game towards the end of the year (if he has earned it), that way he will be hungry for more AFL action over the entire summer.

If Pedersen, Gawn, Hogan, and Fitzpatrick are available - I don't see why we would bring in McCartin.

I have no doubt that he is a talent but he will not provide more than any of those four in his first game. He would have to have an exceptional pre-eason tournament to play Rd 1, even with Dawes out.

I am sick of gifting games to kids.

I'm half way between Rjay and BB - I see no reason why he couldn't play round one if he burns it up preseason - however I have very low expectations on his output in year one and thankfully Roos is giving every indication that he has the same expectation of the draftees.

We have got to stop this unreasonable expectation that our draft picks will be world beaters from the moment they step into the club. I was happy with both JKH and Salem last season. They showed me enough talent to believe they can make it. I want to see improvement from both next season but they still shouldn't be seen as the saviours of our club in their second season.

however I have very low expectations on his output in year one and thankfully Roos is giving every indication that he has the same expectation of the draftees.

I would obviously expect Brayshaw (if we draft him) to play the most games next year out of all (*our) draft picks, however, i agree that even for someone with as developed a body as his, the step up to AFL level is huge. And would be ridiculous to think or expect a 1st year player to play all 22 games (Wines is the exception with big bodied first year players', not the rule).

Edited November 24, 201410 yr by Demon Disciple

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boundaries of this logic lie.

I would obviously expect Brayshaw (if we draft him) to play the most games next year out of all draft picks, however, i agree that even for someone with as developed a body as his, the step up to AFL level is huge. And would be ridiculous to think or expect a 1st year player to play all 22 games (Wines is the exception with big bodied first year players', not the rule).

Hope for lots - expect a little.

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boun

daries of this logic lie.

Because if we were a good team, with an abundance of established talent ( like Hawthorn and Swans) then it is difficult for the draftees to crack regular games early on unless they absolutely kick the door down. The good teams have the ability to have kids play for longer in the lower grade to develop. Alas....

if we get McCartin and play him he will be at last our 3 tall forward, Dawes will probably still take most of the attention from the opposition because he is older and a seasoned campaigner, hogan we will the 2nd best defender as he is again older and has at least one years VFL experience. So McCartin would take the 3rd best defender, i think that would be a great duel one that i think he could do well in. I dont see why he cannot get experience at AFL level as long as he is competitive and giving us something. VFL is for those who need the practice to get to a level where they can give us something when they play AFL football.

Because if we were a good team, with an abundance of established talent ( like Hawthorn and Swans) then it is difficult for the draftees to crack regular games early on unless they absolutely kick the door down. The good teams have the ability to have kids play for longer in the lower grade to develop. Alas....

No problem with the requirement of kicking the door down. Others in this thread have instead removed the door and replaced it with a brick wall before he's arrived at the front gate.

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boundaries of this logic lie.

If he is up to it, I'd play him round 1.

This isn't a young Jack Watts we are talking about.

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boundaries of this logic lie.

Seriously ffs Nasher hes already played 15 games of Magoos cracking nearly 40 goals. Hes HAD experience against men

sorry..Paddy done what to date ??

If you think he and McCartin are coming from the same base then Im sorry ...your cred is down the ladder a long way mate

No problem with the requirement of kicking the door down. Others in this thread have instead removed the door and replaced it with a brick wall before he's arrived at the front gate.

and its the same wall thatd be there at any decent club Nasher.

No more walk ups. Earn it...and thats exactly what Roos insists.

if youre good ...you can climb a wall...thats the point

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boundaries of this logic lie.

Actually Hogan comes from a higher base having played a year of Casey, in the NAB Cup and having had now his third AFL pre season.

But otherwise I agree with your premise.

If we take McCartin and he has a good pre season and NAB Cup, he will play, if not he starts at Casey.

What happens if we don't pick McCartin for round 1, and he kicks 10 goals in the VFL? Is he then ready for a game?

Why is Hogan any different? Zero games in the AFL and injured for his entire first season on the senior list. He's coming from the same base, is he not?

I know my McCartin 10 VFL goals example isn't realistic - I'm just trying to understand the logic of why he's automatically excluded by some for round 1 when we haven't even drafted him yet, let alone exposed him to any form, and where the boundaries of this logic lie.

They are not coming from the same base.

Hogan has been at the club for two years now and had even had a season against men.

McCartin will not be training until December and is straight out of juniors.

He's excluded because that is what good clubs would do - they would have no need to throw the pressure of being a part of an AFL forward set up 4 months into being a player.

If he plays Rd 1, my flabber would be gasted...

How many competitive games did Hogan play last year compared to McCartin? A big preseason could see McCartin picked before Hogan!

If he plays Rd 1, my flabber would be gasted...

would your gob be smacked ?

He's excluded because that is what good clubs would do

Ever thought of picking/not picking him on form? Roos has form on this. JKH.

That would overcome this rather brainless discussion of whether he deserves a game round 1 and your premise that "good clubs would do". Good clubs would pick him if he was in the best 22. If he's in ours he plays.