At least half our list is just emotionally shell shocked.

They cannot execute basic skills under real pressure.

Time to go.

They have been skill changled since day one wyl.

That is what leads to being emotionally shell shocked.

They have been skill changled since day one wyl.

That is what leads to being emotionally shell shocked.

Emotional Bull, I don't buy into that at all. You don't miss targets, it is a lazy concentration thing. No AFL football should miss a 20m kick under no pressure or fumble hand passes that are at you eyes or worse still miss 2m handballs.

Emotional Bull, I don't buy into that at all. You don't miss targets, it is a lazy concentration thing. No AFL football should miss a 20m kick under no pressure or fumble hand passes that are at you eyes or worse still miss 2m handballs.

Except half the MFC List

Emotional Bull, I don't buy into that at all. You don't miss targets, it is a lazy concentration thing. No AFL football should miss a 20m kick under no pressure or fumble hand passes that are at you eyes or worse still miss 2m handballs.

Perhaps true, so the real answer is? ..........................

Our list reflects the diabolical recruiting,culture & development which occurred since 08....

Roos will flush out the ones which a clearly not afl standard & the culture will change...

Lot's of talk of turning over the list.

This implies we will have a pile of better players just waiting to be picked - wishful thinking,

LOL

Wishful thinking to draft or sign better players than Blease, Tsapscott, Strauss, Terlich. Nicholson etc ?

Roos could do it with his eyes closed and find much better players than those spuds

Big clean out coming

LOL

Wishful thinking to draft or sign better players than Blease, Tsapscott, Strauss, Terlich. Nicholson etc ?

Roos could do it with his eyes closed and find much better players than those spuds

Big clean out coming

Try as I might I am finding it difficult to disagree

Perhaps true, so the real answer is? ..........................

Lazy, Dumb footballers.

Lazy, Dumb footballers.

Of course you are correct, but even lazy and dumb footballers can show some grunt. The problem is deeper than that at Roos knows it.

At least half our list is just emotionally shell shocked.

They cannot execute basic skills under real pressure.

Time to go.

Had a rethink since last season since things aren't going so swimmingly ? I clearly pointed the finger at the players but you kept deflecting to the coaches and the administration ?

I know that you have to all parts of your club in sync to reach the ultimate prize but as horrible as the coach was last year there was this desire to absolve the players in what we served up under Neeld.

Roos has been steadfast in his commentary that he can teach many things but ultimately it is in the hands of the players.

We have certainly improved on the Neeld days but anyone thinking that we could turn this bunch of Lada's into Ferrari's just by having Roos polish their bonnets was in the rude shock we are having now.

I am despondent after yesterdays match. But after going home and kissing the dogs and kicking the girlfriend ( and then kissing the girlfriend and kicking the cat - I'd never kick the dogs) I am now seeing things in a different light. I believe Roos can coach and be the architect of a good culture and front a good structure. He cannot kick the ball for the players and as your rightly point out - many of these players have to go and will go at the end of the year. There is reason he signed on the 3 years - 2 years just aint gonna cut it.

Of course you are correct, but even lazy and dumb footballers can show some grunt. The problem is deeper than that at Roos knows it.

I disagree - not lazy (well most weren't - a few were cruising) . We were overrun at the end of the match - that happens. But we had enough of the ball and won enough tight contests for yesterday not to go the way it did. We were plainly insipid with the ball in our hands. Handpassed when we should have kicked, kicked when we should of handpassed and did both skills poorly. I am not sure if it was dumb, panicked, shell shocked or what.

I listened to Roos presser and he was 100% spot on. His concern was not the effort in the contest - but he openly admitted that the extent of the problem of what to do in a winning position was deeper than he thought and he was gobsmacked with total inability to execute basic skills.

Mind you Leppitch, correctly was only happy about coming from behind and winning and not much else.

Had a rethink since last season since things aren't going so swimmingly ? I clearly pointed the finger at the players but you kept deflecting to the coaches and the administration ?

I know that you have to all parts of your club in sync to reach the ultimate prize but as horrible as the coach was last year there was this desire to absolve the players in what we served up under Neeld.

Roos has been steadfast in his commentary that he can teach many things but ultimately it is in the hands of the players.

We have certainly improved on the Neeld days but anyone thinking that we could turn this bunch of Lada's into Ferrari's just by having Roos polish their bonnets was in the rude shock we are having now.

I am despondent after yesterdays match. But after going home and kissing the dogs and kicking the girlfriend ( and then kissing the girlfriend and kicking the cat - I'd never kick the dogs) I am now seeing things in a different light. I believe Roos can coach and be the architect of a good culture and front a good structure. He cannot kick the ball for the players and as your rightly point out - many of these players have to go and will go at the end of the year. There is reason he signed on the 3 years - 2 years just aint gonna cut it.

I agree nutbean but I have to say that i have been saying the cattle are not up to it for four years now.

On top of that I don't have a girlfriend to kick so count yourself lucky!

Small joke there " violence against women police"

Of course you are correct, but even lazy and dumb footballers can show some grunt. The problem is deeper than that at Roos knows it.

They can if they choose to do so, that is why they are Lazy footballers. The underlying problem with our club our players play when they want to. We are a mile of being a premiership threat, we are 5 years behind Western Bulldogs, Saints, GWS.

I have a different theory, at least in part.

Melbourne is now so spooked by 1. the fear of losing, and 2. the Etihad "hoodoo" that it's become chronic. Dunn came out earlier in the week and spoke about defeating the 'hoodoo'. As soon as that gets into the mind of players, they can't help but get stressed and choke when the pressure gets high, like it did in the last quarter.

It's like the pressure that caused Greg Norman's final-round meltdown in 1996 when he realised he could become the first Australian to win the US Masters, and the first time he could win a major on US soil. His skills disappeared, and he started pulling and duffing shots that he would normally execute without thinking. Add to that Roos' idea that players "just don't know how to win" and the issue is a severe one.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting it's not a skill and personnel problem or a problem with the quality of the team. But the total lack of skill under self-induced pressure was more than just a coincidence, particularly given that we pushed Port Adelaide to 3 points away in our last game. I also think the standard responses of 'culture', 'laziness', 'dumb' and 'lack of effort' have been easy outs for success-starved supporters, and are not particularly helpful with this team under Roos coaching.

Until players can execute skills under pressure, we are going nowhere. And there's only two solutions ... get rid of the players who can't, and train the rest until their feet and hands metaphorically bleed.

The simple fact is so many on the list should not be there, most of the rest are just good ordinary players AT BEST and not much good AT WORST and there are very few good players/potentially good players - THAT IS ALL - the result of years of diabolical list management. Any other view is delusional.

Certainly not simply just culture etc.the problem.

Roos said last year before taking the job that the Dees list was not that bad - I think he knows otherwise now - gee I hope so.

Sadly it is going to take a long time to rebuild it (if ever) - a lot longer than Roos remaining two years.

ROOS AND THE CLUB HAVE TO BITE THE BULLET ABOUT THE LIST.

Meanwhile so much more pain to come, probably memberships will be lost and young Demon supporters will give up on the club.

Horrendous situation. Heartbreaking.

Negative - yes but honest - yes.

I probably haven't got a lot of years left on this planet but will always support the Club as I have for over 60 years - I love it - but it sure ain't easy - yesterday was sickening.

Emotional Bull, I don't buy into that at all. You don't miss targets, it is a lazy concentration thing. No AFL football should miss a 20m kick under no pressure or fumble hand passes that are at you eyes or worse still miss 2m handballs.

Devils advocate, is that the players fault or lack of coaching? Our goal kicking is deplorable, that can be coached, players can get better as it is a skill. Why do our players seem so poor at regulation ground kicking and goal kicking?

The simple fact is so many on the list should not be there, most of the rest are just good ordinary players AT BEST and not much good AT WORST and there are very few good players/potentially good players - THAT IS ALL - the result of years of diabolical list management. Any other view is delusional.

Certainly not simply just culture etc.the problem.

Roos said last year before taking the job that the Dees list was not that bad - I think he knows otherwise now - gee I hope so.

Sadly it is going to take a long time to rebuild it (if ever) - a lot longer than Roos remaining two years.

ROOS AND THE CLUB HAVE TO BITE THE BULLET ABOUT THE LIST.

Meanwhile so much more pain to come, probably memberships will be lost and young Demon supporters will give up on the club.

Horrendous situation. Heartbreaking.

Negative - yes but honest - yes.

I probably haven't got a lot of years left on this planet but will always support the Club as I have for over 60 years - I love it - but it sure ain't easy - yesterday was sickening.

I agree with 95% of the above especially the last two lines I think we maybe of similar vintage..

Unfortunately we are going to have to make do with glories of the long gone past.

I have a different theory, at least in part.

Melbourne is now so spooked by 1. the fear of losing, and 2. the Etihad "hoodoo" that it's become chronic. Dunn came out earlier in the week and spoke about defeating the 'hoodoo'. As soon as that gets into the mind of players, they can't help but get stressed and choke when the pressure gets high, like it did in the last quarter.

It's like the pressure that caused Greg Norman's final-round meltdown in 1996 when he realised he could become the first Australian to win the US Masters, and the first time he could win a major on US soil. His skills disappeared, and he started pulling and duffing shots that he would normally execute without thinking. Add to that Roos' idea that players "just don't know how to win" and the issue is a severe one.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting it's not a skill and personnel problem or a problem with the quality of the team. But the total lack of skill under self-induced pressure was more than just a coincidence, particularly given that we pushed Port Adelaide to 3 points away in our last game. I also think the standard responses of 'culture', 'laziness', 'dumb' and 'lack of effort' have been easy outs for success-starved supporters, and are not particularly helpful with this team under Roos coaching.

Until players can execute skills under pressure, we are going nowhere. And there's only two solutions ... get rid of the players who can't, and train the rest until their feet and hands metaphorically bleed.

Do you know what if the skill errors and the bad decision had only been there this year you might have a point, our players haven't been able on a consistent basis since 2007 been able to execute the required skills to play this game. Mind agree it does play with you, but we just have players that can't and don't do what is required. It seems as soon as you put a MFC jumper on you lose your skill and ability to make good decisions.

No more, it is a cop out. A rookie player that was delisted last year is one of our most consistent, reliable player, why because it was taken away from him and he is hungry to be an AFL footballer.

I probably haven't got a lot of years left on this planet but will always support the Club as I have for over 60 years - I love it - but it sure ain't easy - yesterday was sickening.

This patch is bloody heartbreaking... I can't imagine what the old timers went through when we went 23 years without a final. I remember the dry patch we had between 95-97 and thought that was horrendous (I was a teenager at the time). 2008-2014 is unimaginably painful as a supporter. And it's not over yet.

Hard to disagree with much of the above but my moment of horror was looking back early in the last quarter to our forward half too see three loose Brisbane players with only Dawes for company . Leppitsch said after the game that they won because they stopped flooding . Dare I suggest that coaching conservatism played at least some part in the last quarter debacle .

A thought rattling around in my head; is it really fair of Roos to say the players are just 'waiting to be beaten' when he is enforcing a game plan that patently rejects trying to kick a winning score?

You can call it rope-a-dope or trying to stop the game getting away from them early, but fundamentally it is an attitude of 'let's try not to fall behind too far'.

Does the game plan patently reject trying to kick a winning score, or is it just our players doing that?

Does the game plan patently reject trying to kick a winning score, or is it just our players doing that?

Easy answer Nasher

Had a rethink since last season since things aren't going so swimmingly ? I clearly pointed the finger at the players but you kept deflecting to the coaches and the administration ?

I know that you have to all parts of your club in sync to reach the ultimate prize but as horrible as the coach was last year there was this desire to absolve the players in what we served up under Neeld.

Roos has been steadfast in his commentary that he can teach many things but ultimately it is in the hands of the players.

We have certainly improved on the Neeld days but anyone thinking that we could turn this bunch of Lada's into Ferrari's just by having Roos polish their bonnets was in the rude shock we are having now.

I am despondent after yesterdays match. But after going home and kissing the dogs and kicking the girlfriend ( and then kissing the girlfriend and kicking the cat - I'd never kick the dogs) I am now seeing things in a different light. I believe Roos can coach and be the architect of a good culture and front a good structure. He cannot kick the ball for the players and as your rightly point out - many of these players have to go and will go at the end of the year. There is reason he signed on the 3 years - 2 years just aint gonna cut it.

the recruiting drive of Schwab & Co was always suspect to me don't worry. But last year the coach was also lost as to what he had to do.

That was the priority to get a Topline coach.

Now i did think/hope that Roosy could get this list back on the rails.

I now do not think it can be done.

They are too damaged.

Don't often agree with Mark Robinson but he was on the money expressing disbelief that Demon players get paid as much as Hawthorns.

They are paid as professionals, it's time they acted like it.

Don't often agree with Mark Robinson but he was on the money expressing disbelief that Demon players get paid as much as Hawthorns.

They are paid as professionals, it's time they acted like it.

been saying this for years.

Easy money!!

We should have performanced based contracts right through the list.