I've never suggested something like this before but it surely must be time to shut this one down. Both sides have had ample opportunity to have their say and Fossil's comments above show that there is still very little understanding between the two camps.

  On 05/08/2014 at 04:22, ijbfossil said:

Sorry - but if you don't care - you cannot be a fair dinkum Demon supporter.

Nah, that's BS.

You just don't want to understand what we care about.

You care about embarrassing wooden cutlery - my concerns are a bit more evolved...

  On 05/08/2014 at 04:22, ijbfossil said:

Sorry - but if you don't care - you cannot be a fair dinkum Demon supporter.

so you care about finishing 17th.... lofty ideals I'm sure

  On 05/08/2014 at 05:38, S_T said:

I've never suggested something like this before but it surely must be time to shut this one down. Both sides have had ample opportunity to have their say and Fossil's comments above show that there is still very little understanding between the two camps.

fossil's view is only representative of fossil.

We have gone this season form being a team bearly at AFL standard to a bottom 4 team this year. I'm still tipping us to beat the giants at the g in a couple of weeks so that should see us clear. Personally I don't think it matters too much but I think the players need to look at the ladder at the end of the season and see that we are no longer the worst. Second bottom will do that but to finish bottom - and drop a spot on the ladder despite obvious improvement - surely won't do the players confidence any good

  On 05/08/2014 at 23:38, Grint said:

We have gone this season form being a team bearly at AFL standard to a bottom 4 team this year. I'm still tipping us to beat the giants at the g in a couple of weeks so that should see us clear. Personally I don't think it matters too much but I think the players need to look at the ladder at the end of the season and see that we are no longer the worst. Second bottom will do that but to finish bottom - and drop a spot on the ladder despite obvious improvement - surely won't do the players confidence any good

Fairly confident it is in the toilet right now Grint

I care more about not making the finals - than I do about winning the spoon.

Every year we aren't in the race to win the flag is a failed year.

To be in this race, we need to at least make the finals.

  On 06/08/2014 at 01:29, KingDingAling said:

I care more about not making the finals - than I do about winning the spoon.

Every year we aren't in the race to win the flag is a failed year.

To be in this race, we need to at least make the finals.

Correct but that is not going to happen for some time yet.

Hope you have the patience to wait through to 2017

  On 06/08/2014 at 02:00, old dee said:

Correct but that is not going to happen for some time yet.

Hope you have the patience to wait through to 2017

IMO if we can draft aggressively and draft the right players, we give ourselves a chance to make finals.

Roos got the balance right at Sydney, in that he was able to bring in players that make an impact - but also have a future ahead of them.

It is a blending the short term/long term view and making it work in practice. I hold hope we'll make the finals next year.

  On 06/08/2014 at 02:18, KingDingAling said:

IMO if we can draft aggressively and draft the right players, we give ourselves a chance to make finals.

Roos got the balance right at Sydney, in that he was able to bring in players that make an impact - but also have a future ahead of them.

It is a blending the short term/long term view and making it work in practice. I hold hope we'll make the finals next year.

The difference between the MFC and when Roos went to Sydney was he had a reasonably good list to start with.

Now he has a list that is the worst in the competion.

It is going to take time to change that problem.

I hope you are right but I seriously doubt it.

J curve yet to bottom out.

  On 05/08/2014 at 04:49, PaulRB said:

So black and white Fossil.

Yep - black and white - any win is better than a loss, any rung up the ladder is something - have to start somewhere. I can only presume the "I don't cares" have been supporters for 5 minutes, if at all - after 50 years of suffering since 1964 it hurts. The "I don't cares" is the attitude Roosy has identified as the reason the team cannot win - the culture of accepting defeat.

Black and white YES. Undeniable YES!!

  On 06/08/2014 at 06:45, ijbfossil said:

Yep - black and white - any win is better than a loss, any rung up the ladder is something - have to start somewhere. I can only presume the "I don't cares" have been supporters for 5 minutes, if at all - after 50 years of suffering since 1964 it hurts. The "I don't cares" is the attitude Roosy has identified as the reason the team cannot win - the culture of accepting defeat.

Black and white YES. Undeniable YES!!

So you are really a Pies supporter!

  On 06/08/2014 at 02:33, beelzebub said:

J curve yet to bottom out.

When will we bottom out BB. I hope it really isnt an S bend and we are going down the sewer

I would also be shattered if we won the spoon. But I reckon it would be short term, as we will use these benefits more effectively through Roosy and the rest.

  On 06/08/2014 at 06:45, ijbfossil said:

any win is better than a loss, any rung up the ladder is something

Ah yes, but our ladder position is not determined by our wins and losses ... it's determined by our opponents' wins and losses.

For many supporters "don't care" about the wooden spoon may have kicked in long before the end-of-season ladder positions are determined. They wouldn't care about the spoon because they have been totally gutted for quite some time. I suspect I feel like that. The losses having taken a toll, if the spoon follows, it's only to be expected.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that the wooden spoon this year should be a shock? Or that we should get in a lather about it? Of course we don't want it! For many MFC supporters, just holding on is the issue. Like, whether we will renew next year. Thousands of us will - do we need to be belted about the head because we feel gutted?

Ask whether we don't care any more about MFC and I imagine you'd get a different set of responses; we'd spark up, I expect, and if we didn't, THAT would be a set of responses that would be worth getting worried about.

All we are seeing here is how many supporters have reached saturation point about the disappointments of this particular season.

  On 06/08/2014 at 20:27, robbiefrom13 said:

For many supporters "don't care" about the wooden spoon may have kicked in long before the end-of-season ladder positions are determined. They wouldn't care about the spoon because they have been totally gutted for quite some time. I suspect I feel like that. The losses having taken a toll, if the spoon follows, it's only to be expected.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that the wooden spoon this year should be a shock? Or that we should get in a lather about it? Of course we don't want it! For many MFC supporters, just holding on is the issue. Like, whether we will renew next year. Thousands of us will - do we need to be belted about the head because we feel gutted?

Ask whether we don't care any more about MFC and I imagine you'd get a different set of responses; we'd spark up, I expect, and if we didn't, THAT would be a set of responses that would be worth getting worried about.

All we are seeing here is how many supporters have reached saturation point about the disappointments of this particular season.

Good comment robbie

  On 06/08/2014 at 21:14, old dee said:

Good comment Robbie

Yes, it was.

Maybe it is the confusion of what was 'supposed' to happen this season.

We came into this season with our eyes wide open, OD, and I knew that while Neeld was a terrible coach, he wasn't a Disney villain that we would shed and suddenly make the finals.

Even with a great coach like Roos in tow.

We just do not have the list to do, and sustain, damage in this league at the moment.

  On 06/08/2014 at 22:20, rpfc said:

Yes, it was.

Maybe it is the confusion of what was 'supposed' to happen this season.

We came into this season with our eyes wide open, OD, and I knew that while Neeld was a terrible coach, he wasn't a Disney villain that we would shed and suddenly make the finals.

Even with a great coach like Roos in tow.

We just do not have the list to do, and sustain, damage in this league at the moment.

But we are just negative rpfc!!!!!

  On 06/08/2014 at 06:58, jackaub said:

When will we bottom out BB. I hope it really isnt an S bend and we are going down the sewer

either this EOS or next depending on how fair dinkum this club is about weeding !!

  On 06/08/2014 at 22:20, rpfc said:

Yes, it was.

Maybe it is the confusion of what was 'supposed' to happen this season.

We came into this season with our eyes wide open, OD, and I knew that while Neeld was a terrible coach, he wasn't a Disney villain that we would shed and suddenly make the finals.

Even with a great coach like Roos in tow.

We just do not have the list to do, and sustain, damage in this league at the moment.

well speaking for myself rpfc

I gave my reasons previously why i would be pizzed off when there were 5 games to be played incl Bris and Giants games

I felt it was imperative we finish the season off with some positives to set ourselves up as favourably as possible for next year with respect to existing members, renewing lapsed members, new members, sponsors, player morale, respect etc etc

Yes we are already damaged, no i don't expect miracles or finals etc.

I just hoped we could show some improvement or positives (no matter how small) to finish off the season and not slide backwards

That's why i will be pizzed off

  On 06/08/2014 at 22:20, rpfc said:

Maybe it is the confusion of what was 'supposed' to happen this season.

One of the things that was 'supposed' to happen this season was having a fear-of-god forward line: Clark, Dawes, Hogan.

Once that fell in a heap, we were always going to struggle big-time getting winnable scores on the board, Roos or no Roos.

  On 06/08/2014 at 23:37, bing181 said:

One of the things that was 'supposed' to happen this season was having a fear-of-god forward line: Clark, Dawes, Hogan.

Once that fell in a heap, we were always going to struggle big-time getting winnable scores on the board, Roos or no Roos.

never forget THAT! (- and, if we'd had that up ahead, I bet our mids would have had a different impact too. Wouldn't that in front of you have straightened up and accelerated your kicking into the forward line?)

However we criticise other things, I'd say the lack of those three guys in the forward half outweighs any other issue for MFC in 2014.

  On 06/08/2014 at 23:37, bing181 said:

One of the things that was 'supposed' to happen this season was having a fear-of-god forward line: Clark, Dawes, Hogan.

Once that fell in a heap, we were always going to struggle big-time getting winnable scores on the board, Roos or no Roos.

I agree.

We've dropped a few games by less than 25 points this year.

An argument could easily be made that Clark and Hogan would bridge that gap.

Now we are relying on Kent, we'll be buggered if he goes down.