want and matters

two different things

Trying hard to not go too far off topic here but there's an obvious connection (IMO) ...

If Frawley were to go, would we get definitely get "band 1" compensation if we also had the no.1 draft pick?

The powers that be might think it's a bit rich for us to have both picks 1 & 2 in the draft and award us a "band 2" pick instead (which is at the end of the 1st round of picks)

But ... if our first round draft pick was say, pick 4, they then might look at things a bit more favourably and grant us band 1 compensation (pick 5 in that case)

Remembering that he's currently not in our top 10 salary earners* and ... the compensation would also depend on his age and the length and amount of his possible new contract at another club. Apart from that, I suspect that the "bands" may be judged, in part, arbitrarily.

The AFL won't necessarily be doing us any favours here.

*This is because his current contract was "front ended"

Edit: fixed the "band" explanation

Edited July 28, 201410 yr by Macca

Trying hard to not go too far off topic here but there's an obvious connection (IMO) ...

If Frawley goes, would we get definitely get "band 1" compensation if we also had the no.1 draft pick?

The powers that be might think it's a bit rich for us to have both picks 1 & 2 in the draft and award us a "band 2" pick instead (which is a mid round pick (10?)

But ... if our first round draft pick was say, pick 4, they then might look at things a bit more favourably and grant us band 1 compensation (pick 5 in that case)

Remembering that he's currently not in our top 10 salary earners* and ... the compensation would also depend on the length and amount of his possible new contract at another club. Apart from that, the "bands" are still judged, in part, arbitrarily (I believe)

The AFL won't necessarily be doing us any favours here.

nb ... I stand corrected on my understanding of how the "bands" work.

*This is because his current contract was "front ended"

macca, think you will find FA band 2 is end of round 1

band 2 wouldn't surprise me

macca, think you will find FA band 2 is end of round 1

band 2 wouldn't surprise me

Fair enough dc

My call stands though and it's related to the fact that we didn't get a PP last year. Whether we want to accept it or not, that 7 month investigation had residual effects.

I hope James stays and my reasoning is partly because I'm not convinced we'll get band 1 compensation for him. Also, we need a 3rd big bodied forward to support Dawes and Hogan. Certainly someone who can hold down a key forward post if one of them is injured. I really hope that James finishes off the season well and ... stays.

In a perfect world, we can use our top end draft picks on some quality mids.

FWIW I just did the ladder predictor, penciling us in for the 2 wins, and all the other results 'as expected' and we finish 15th

6 wins, with percentage up about 25%, and 6 close losses - that's a huge return from the train wreck of last season

and draft picks 4+5 to play with

BTW, had we manged to won all those close wins and finish on 10 wins that would have been equal 9th on wins

Fair enough dc

My call stands though and it's related to the fact that we didn't get a PP last year. Whether we want to accept it or not, that 7 month investigation had residual effects.

I hope James stays and my reasoning is partly because I'm not convinced we'll get band 1 compensation for him. Also, we need a 3rd big bodied forward to support Dawes and Hogan. Certainly someone who can hold down a key forward post if one of them is injured. I really hope that James finishes off the season well and ... stays.

In a perfect world, we can use our top end draft picks on some quality mids.

i think he's gone macca, but i'd be happy if he stays

If Frawley were to go, would we get definitely get "band 1" compensation if we also had the no.1 draft pick?

The powers that be might think it's a bit rich for us to have both picks 1 & 2 in the draft and award us a "band 2" pick instead (which is at the end of the 1st round of picks)

Last I checked there is no 'what is their first pick' clause for FA compo. Then again, the AFL have historically been quite happy to invent / override process as they go.

Last I checked there is no 'what is their first pick' clause for FA compo. Then again, the AFL have historically been quite happy to invent / override process as they go.

Yep, and if we use the PP qualification rules as a guide, it's astonishing that we didn't receive a PP last year. Not even a 2nd round PP - nothing. Did they think we were tanking? (again)

I understand that these 2 types of draft compensation have no real connection but as you intimated, the AFL can't ordinarily be trusted.

I must say when I started this poll I didn't expect "I don't care" to be the top of the poll.

Why would you be surprised? We have been finishing last or there abouts for years, its dull the effect... Kind of like the Australian Cricket team winning all the time a few years back, It becomes normal and uninteresting... Its hard to care if we achieve similar result each year... I wont be reflecting on last year with pride as a better year to this one, because we finish last this year and third last the year before... Its all the same to me...

Last I checked there is no 'what is their first pick' clause for FA compo. Then again, the AFL have historically been quite happy to invent / override process as they go.

lol... If we finish last again and Frawley leaves, then really we should be looking at picks 1(PP), 2 and 3(Frawley compensation)... Would the AFL do it? And if they don't.. How will they justify giving one to GWS?

GWS are getting enough rubbish concessions for the next 5 years thanks to the AFL. About as deserving of a PP as the Swans.

I don't think we will come last. We have made massive in roads. If we do come last I won't mind too much because we have had numerous very close losses to quality sides, and our big losses were at the biggining of the season and on the back of playing in serious conditions in alice springs.

And this is classic attitude of melb supporters the last 8 years or so, but if we come last and chip leaves, we will have some early picks to trade for quality players i.e. cameron and shiel, but differing to the past we have made progress and we arnt pinning all our hopes on these picks.

next season, with hogan healthy (fingers crossed, touch wood and all the rest of it), perhaps melceski running out of the back line, perhaps another forward tart and a classy mid or 2 with trengove on the blocks again, we can progress from this year with added polish and win some of those tight contests.

We will be last but its an improvement I think.

my wife will be sending the dog off to rellies for the last round as a precaution

We (arguably) played our best game for the year against Port last week. Let's face it, if we'd have won the game, we'd almost certainly be calling it our best win for the year.

So, I say we improve on that form and blow Brisbane off the park ... the players must be absolutely sick and tired of losing so they might double their efforts. Why not?

That would make it 5 wins with 3 winnable games to come (the Hawks game will be tough)

7 wins or maybe even 8 wins with another 4 or 5 games that we "couda" won is not a bad return (all things considered) Most of us would have taken that at the start of the season.

I'm still hoping that it happens.

"the Hawks game will be tough" surely wins the award for Demonland Understatement of the Year.

However, it's a sign of our improvement this year that it was even written. Last year it would have read something like "the Hawks game will be a wipeout/an embarrassment/impossible to watch" (select whatever you think is most appropriate).

I will be filthy if we finish last.

Early draft picks do not compensate for the effect of loosing on team culture and moral. We can recruit a team full of number 1 picks but they will never amount to anything without the right mindset and that can only be obtained from a winning culture. Have a look at the Cats and how later draft picks have come on in that environment.

You could argue its the chicken or the egg thing but IMO the culture is first and then we can worry about the cattle.

We have been competetive but need to translate that into wins to develop this team. It is critcal the boys get reward for effort and get a couple more wins this year. Sunday is a very important game that we should win.

I will be disappointed because it will mean our intensity has dropped off.

I think if we play with the endeavor we showed from mid way through the second quarter against port and bring that to the Lions and GWS game we should win. I even think that we can beat the like of WCE and North with us playing at our best.

To me coming last means that we haven't finished off our season playing the best we are capable of.

Edited July 30, 201410 yr by nutbean

With the Lions beating GC today, and given the games we have coming up, the wooden spoon is a big chance now. My question is though how upset will you be if that happens?

I think it's fair to say we've improved this year and have uncovered some real talent, we have also had several close losses and some games that we were in but didn't finish it off. So I'm going through my head and deciding whether it'll [censored] me off if it happens. For the record this has nothing to do with draft picks.

Bottom line is I'd like to avoid it so we must beat GWS and the Lions, I want to win those badly.

Honestly; I'll live with it & I'll take it in my stride to November. But I would prefer P-2. its the mid or the Big Guy I'd prefer of the kids. or to just trade it away for a 2 for 1, as long as we also get band 1 compo.

over to you gill.

The fact that we have die hard demons on this forum seemingly happy with another poor season is disapointing. It smacks of a loosing club culture that is still in place. I doubt that any of the players would be thinking this way but obviously in the past this attitude was promulgated by the administration to the detriment of the club. We have been years in recovery from this.

None of us should ever accept this attitude around this club again. Winning the wooden spoon should be seen as the discrace that it is. I dont give a rats if we got the first three picks, nothing can compensate for the damage another rubbish year will do to the psyche of the playing group. Roos has said it time and time again, his biggest task is fixing the problem between the players ears.

I recon these last 5 rounds are critcal to the development of this team and can set us up for a good year next year or consign us to more misery.

Hopefully we beat Brisbane and GWS and can jag at least another win. To me that is the only acceptable outcome.

Totally agree^^^ bedraggled.

The fact that "Don't Care" is leading this poll makes me sick to the core.

We have already followed that path. It failed dismally.

Of course winning a few games will do wonders for morale. But if Roos is half the coach we think he is, he can get the players focussed on how they have improved and how they can improve more.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they'd prefer to finish bottom. No one is suggesting 'going down that path'. Just some of us less emotional supporters are more interested in the improvement we have seen rather than what is a somewhat arbitrary position on the ladder.

Finish the year with 6. Wins and at least another 6 we have been in front in the last quarter is a massive improvement and a great platform, I personally think we could beat west coast as well

Of course winning a few games will do wonders for morale. But if Roos is half the coach we think he is, he can get the players focussed on how they have improved and how they can improve more.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they'd prefer to finish bottom. No one is suggesting 'going down that path'. Just some of us less emotional supporters are more interested in the improvement we have seen rather than what is a somewhat arbitrary position on the ladder.

you can think what you like.

Don't care means Don't care.

I do.

Of course winning a few games will do wonders for morale. But if Roos is half the coach we think he is, he can get the players focussed on how they have improved and how they can improve more.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they'd prefer to finish bottom. No one is suggesting 'going down that path'. Just some of us less emotional supporters are more interested in the improvement we have seen rather than what is a somewhat arbitrary position on the ladder.

The point is we should care. Its not about being emotional its about setting standards and setting a club culture and gettng the players to believe. We can all agree we have improved in terms of defence but the ladder positon is not arbitary, it is the measure of perfomance for AFL teams. Finishing last is bad. It is bad for the players, bad for the club and bad for the supporters.

If we fiinish last this year it is arguable that we have gone backwards relative to the rest of the competition. Yes our percentage has improved but to what effect, a drop in ladder position, whoopty do. We are currently 6%age points from our position at the end of 2012. 5 more losses and we dont even make 2012 standards.

This is not up for debate, the figures dont lie. Without at least 2 and hopefully 3 wins we will have acheived very little other than narrowing our win/loss band width.

Of course winning a few games will do wonders for morale. But if Roos is half the coach we think he is, he can get the players focussed on how they have improved and how they can improve more.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting they'd prefer to finish bottom. No one is suggesting 'going down that path'. Just some of us less emotional supporters are more interested in the improvement we have seen rather than what is a somewhat arbitrary position on the ladder.

Problem is - to finish bottom we would have to at least lose to the Lions and GWS - to lose to them means our efforts would have to well below our effort in the Port game (IMO) - I would like to see our effort for the remaining games at least at the Port Adelaide game level. If it is at that level I can see us probably winning 2 games ( maybe 3 depending on what the Eagles serve up) and therefore not finish bottom - anything else would be disappointing.

Roos' constant theme has been that it is not about the winning and losing - it is about the effort, intensity and improvement. But the logical extension of that is if we bring the right effort and intensity to the Lions and GWS game we should win. So yes - I will be disappointed if we finish bottom.