Good grief, another thread hi-jacked by a sack Watts discussion. And worse still, started by someone who finds an old video to hang him on which was discussed ad nauseum when it originally appeared.

We are a much, much better side than last year. If we finish last, it means other teams have improved more - so be it. We won't finished last though, watched much St Kilda lately? We may not win another game, but nor will they.

Edit: And the only game Brisbane have that may be winnable is against us, and their percentage is diabolical. Our game between them will most likely be the battle for 16th position.

Nice win today by the saints...lol... They took out second on the ladder, by 58 points... Who would have thought that could happen...lol...

rpfc, with all due respect I don't want to burn the place down but you just said it yourself. "He can be a very damaging player when others get him the ball"; what is this ozkick? The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club.

The first rule of Australian Rules Football is you must be able to get your own ball. He cant, and that's why I say he is a failed experiment. Are you suggesting we wait until we have enough good players around him who can all get the ball for him and then he will shine for us? Ok lets say it takes five years until we are at that point, by then he will be a ten year player. no club can carry a player for that long. We should be bold and put him up to trade and get what we can.

rpfc I'm curious; have you ever even played football?

That old chestnut...

Yeah, played today. Captain-coached even. Not that it matters to discussing footy.

The modern game involves about 700+ disposals a game and 300 of those are contested. Only 300?! Does that make you pause and think?

One of my best players is a winger that uses his pace and running ability to get in space and 30 touches a game and kick your 'multiple goals'...

You allude to my lack of knowledge but I think you need to reflect on what you know. And Watts has played some good games for this club but he will always rely, like most forwards, on others doing the hard work for them, and if you watch any footy this weekend maybe look at the players running into space and the players up forward leading back and forth and realise that there are 400 uncontested possessions a game that you are not aware of.

Ok that's good you coach and play. do you go and get the ball? Do you expect your team mates to go and get it? I bet you drop un productive players yeah? I do allude to your lack of knowledge of the game because your support of un productive players makes no sense. I definitely reflect on what I know and watts doesn't always play up forward. He has been given more chances than any player I can think of to produce at this level. he doesn't produce we should trade him.

As someone who is partially deaf, I look at the ground when listening as I find it can help me hear what they are saying. (In noisey environments)

Ok that's good you coach and play. do you go and get the ball? Do you expect your team mates to go and get it? I bet you drop un productive players yeah? I do allude to your lack of knowledge of the game because your support of un productive players makes no sense. I definitely reflect on what I know and watts doesn't always play up forward. He has been given more chances than any player I can think of to produce at this level. he doesn't produce we should trade him.

Mate, you're just exposing how little you understand about the game.

There was a time when I had a similar understanding, that you had to win your own footy, until I realised that my greatest frustration with some "soft" players who didn't win their own footy, was actually how incredibly damaging they could be when the foot was in their hands.

"Why didnt everyone realise that this guy was a spud? He's soft and can't win the footy himself, so why do they overlook that?"

Because there's more to footy than just winning the hard ball, and those players can win games.

You can't win with a soft team, but skilled outside players can be exceptionally influential in the end result of a match.

As someone who is partially deaf, I look at the ground when listening as I find it can help me hear what they are saying. (In noisey environments)

Funnily enough this is something I hadn't considered until seeing your post, but while I dont have hearing problems, I also instinctively turn my head to face 90 degrees from the coach during an address when it is very windy because having an ear facing him helps me to hear.

I imagine its the same thing sometimes at an AFL match with a loud crowd.

Ok that's good you coach and play. do you go and get the ball? Do you expect your team mates to go and get it? I bet you drop un productive players yeah? I do allude to your lack of knowledge of the game because your support of un productive players makes no sense. I definitely reflect on what I know and watts doesn't always play up forward. He has been given more chances than any player I can think of to produce at this level. he doesn't produce we should trade him.

Lol settle down frosty, you are just digging a hole mate.

Mate, you're just exposing how little you understand about the game.

There was a time when I had a similar understanding, that you had to win your own footy, until I realised that my greatest frustration with some "soft" players who didn't win their own footy, was actually how incredibly damaging they could be when the foot was in their hands.

"Why didnt everyone realise that this guy was a spud? He's soft and can't win the footy himself, so why do they overlook that?"

Because there's more to footy than just winning the hard ball, and those players can win games.

You can't win with a soft team, but skilled outside players can be exceptionally influential in the end result of a match.

I thought Watts has been pretty good this year all things considered, I think he will rise as a player as the team does, the better the delivery the easier he will find the high half forward role

Ok that's good you coach and play. do you go and get the ball? Do you expect your team mates to go and get it? I bet you drop un productive players yeah? I do allude to your lack of knowledge of the game because your support of un productive players makes no sense. I definitely reflect on what I know and watts doesn't always play up forward. He has been given more chances than any player I can think of to produce at this level. he doesn't produce we should trade him.

Watts showed you yesterday how you can influence the game without being the hardest player out there. And how productive and damaging he can be when others get him the ball.

The thing you don't understand is that in a team, there are going to be players more comfortable than others with their face in the dirt, and there are players more comfortable puking after running 100m after 100m to get into space for a switch or to link up play.

They are not 'un productive' - the best teams hae them and they usually tear us to shreds - that's where the real damage occurs.

Try to understand, I feel like this is Footy 101...

Geelong beat us just by being in the right spots - by running into the right spots. We got killed because we had no idea where/how to run and could not organise clean disposal. It was not because of an inability to win our own footy.

Like most arguments the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Even outside players have to go when required and tackle in a fair dinkum way. Watts hesitancy and disconnection can be really hard to cop. On the other hand his 3rd quarter was elite and responsible for putting us back in the game. One of the best cameos of the year.

There is no way he will be traded and I back Roos to bring him to the point where we see a lot more of what he has to offer.

Like most arguments the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Even outside players have to go when required and tackle in a fair dinkum way. Watts hesitancy and disconnection can be really hard to cop. On the other hand his 3rd quarter was elite and responsible for putting us back in the game. One of the best cameos of the year.

There is no way he will be traded and I back Roos to bring him to the point where we see a lot more of what he has to offer.

Footy 101; okay now I understand. I thought 101 might have been get the ball. That must be 102, I will remember that from now on.

I hope you guys are right about Watts but I have my own opinion here and I believe he's too soft for this level. As for bringing us back into the game in the third? he cost us in the first with his feeble contest against Robbie Gray. He should have won that contest and it is an indictment on our coaching staff and club. I don't see top level teams tolerating this.

Anyhow I hope you guys are right and I am wrong and he can bring us to the promised land.

You been doing a Rip van Winkle for the last week or so Frost?

Yeah I gotta admit this bores me at times. But seeing that head and some of the stuff on here always brings me back.

Soidee you cannot be serious. Are you one of those who walks out at 3/4 quarter time when all hope is gone.

Should have been at Waverley in 1979 when Fitzroy beat the Dees by a lazy 190 points - always should stick it out to the end of the game, the end of the season.

Soidee you cannot be serious. Are you one of those who walks out at 3/4 quarter time when all hope is gone.

Should have been at Waverley in 1979 when Fitzroy beat the Dees by a lazy 190 points - always should stick it out to the end of the game, the end of the season.

I will never walk out if we are merely being outclassed. I have walked out when the players just didn't care (whether that was because of their own desire or other outside causes is irrelevant). I remember the game last year against GCS as being one game I won't apologize for walking out on. It was truly pathetic and even sadder that some fans in attendance were blaming the state of our team in that game on the umpiring!

Edited July 30, 201410 yr by Colin B. Flaubert

Interesting article on coaching backgrounds and experience.

Old coaches are beautiful coaches.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/jul/31/afl-should-realise-old-coaches-are-beautiful-coaches

Yeah I gotta admit this bores me at times. But seeing that head and some of the stuff on here always brings me back.

I don't want you to read anything into this frosty, but can you still buy bags of boiled lollies and humbugs? Just asking.

bbo what's a humbug? is that something you've used to pleasure yourself?

Humbugs are basically the same as Collingwood supporters - black and white striped (and no teeth)

bbo what's a humbug? is that something you've used to pleasure yourself?

I think I'' just leave it at LDC',s above explanation Frost!!!