Post Match Discussion - Round 11

[Nasher 33,607]

It won't happen, but it should. He's an embarrassing captain. Anything Grimes does that is positive is so severely and heavily outweighed by the bad, that being dropped should be a serious consideration. I think there will come a time though where Roos says enough is enough. I think that'll be at the end of the year though. Or the rest of the playing group will speak. He's clearly highly rated for his preparation and off field leadership, but he isn't worth Nathan Jones' shoelace. When it's your captain that is consistently making these costly mistakes, it has to take a toll on the psyche of his team mates. They have to wonder, jeez, I'm busting my gut here and our captain keeps making these junior blunders. These are consistent errors every week. I've no doubt they've pulled him up on these errors, but he continues to make the same stupid errors. When do we admit that this guy is just average footballer, who seems to be going backwards every year he plays?

Is this business of Roos saying 'enough is enough' and the playing group - who have nominated him as captain for three seasons in a row - 'speaking' going to happen before, or after Grimes plays 22 games as (co-)captain of the MFC in 2014?

Grimes today registered 2 clangers. Dom Tyson registered 8. 8 clangers! Lynden Dunn registered 4, the worst of which came at a time where we still could've won, and was seemingly at odds with team orders as it drew the ire of the coach on national TV.

I think we should all carp on about how awful Grimes was though.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Realisation sinking in that next year we'll likely be playing the bottom 5 teams twice. Almost a lock for 10 wins, plus a few scalps of the 12 teams above us. We keep improving this form and add Hogan and a few KPP's in the off-season, we're locks for finals next year. Looking forward to the new fixturing plan, will absolutely help us if we finish bottom 6.

[Adam The God 30,129]

I think that performance today shows what a slow start does.. Theres a stat that once a team is down by 30 its near on impossible to win.. I think 1 out of 56 games before this round a team has come back.. But we showed some heart and endevour.. It looks like we've made a masterstroke taking Tyson and salem.. One a ball magnet and the other all class.. I see alot of Yze in Salem!

I think this sends a message to the competition.. The demons can match it with the top 8 now.. And on our day, we will ruin a few teams season ( like carlton!! Haha) The question now is how much has this taken out of the players playing in this heat.. And can we back up against the pies.. Because if we do.. We can win!!

I dislike this call. I've seen it a couple of times from a number of posters. I can certainly see the comparison in terms of movement, left-footedness and skill level, but he seems to have a bit more time than Yze (or perhaps it's just been a while). but is certainly a much tougher player. He'll play 200 games for this club if he continues to track as he is. Such an exciting prospect. Thought he made one error today, when he went back for a mark with one hand. It was lazy, but I'm sure the coaching team will eradicate this from his game. Really looking forward to see how he plays in front of a big crowd at the 'G. Tyson too for that matter.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,802]

There's a few pieces of the jigsaw still to be complete but if we recruit smartly again over the off-season (pfft, it's Paul Roos! Of course we will) and get a fit Hogan onto the park in 2015, I reckon we'll make the 8. Calling it early.

[Deez 298]

You guys notice that every team we play lately is considered to be a bit flat and not playing their best? When does that stop being a coincidence and start being due to our pressure, strong defensive cohesion and contested ball. . Im disappointed as everyone but that will burn the boys. Look out Collingwood

I know right, i was thinking the exact same thing. A richmond supporter friend was commenting on how if they had of nailed a few more goals like they usually do they'd have won. thats true but i put that innacuracy down to the added pressure forcing them to rush etc. Same deal today. It is annoying that commentators imply that had the opposition brought their A game they'd have blown melbourne away. Might be time to recognise Melbourne is affecting their ability to play their best football.

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

How is this for a suggestion? Add Dawes and Hogan.

If you are going to quote my post then at least refer to the essence to what I am saying. You sound like a cheap shyster lawyer.

Edited May 31, 2014 by america de cali

[Adam The God 30,129]

Showed the huge improvement in the first, port kick the first 4 goals and look good, this year and now we keep fighting and get into a winning position, previous seasons we probably lose that by 60 plus, even early this year might have been a different story, i have no doubt we will be a top 8 standard team by years end at this rate, may not be reflected in wins but the players now know they can win every single game and are only going to get better.

Personnel/list changes will further improve us.

[Adam The God 30,129]

Go Lions! I always enjoy a Carlton defeat!

I watched the game with a Bluebagger too. Even better. 'Ah well, mate. Bad luck. Next time.'

It depends on what toll you are talking about. Physically or mentally?

My concern is the effort without the reward of winning. I'm well into my second bottle of red after a few beers so I hope I'm making some sense. I just hope we can manage to win a couple of games over the next few weeks for the sake of the effort put in by the players.

Physically, I reckon. We were buggered after this game. I haven't seen a Melbourne team so tired in a long time. Out on their feet at the end. Backing this up against Collingwood, even with a nine day turn around is going to be a tough ask.

I couldn't see the game but just watched a Salem highlights clip from the club website -- OMG what a find. Cool, calm, collected, skilled and smart.

The shepherd when Toump had the ball, then his second effort to take the mark was outstanding especially for one so young.

And he knocked Brad Ebert off the ball, no less.

I am not happy with some of the negative comments about Max Gawn's game.However I will agree he didn't do anything fantastic today.But we were playing the top team so their backline is pretty good.But didn't he kick our first goal?This seems to be omitted in some people's criticisms.And I reckon he played a pretty respectful game last week against the Tiges .How about that ruck tap out to Bernie Vince - who kicked a goal! Max has lost a lot of game time over the years due to injuries - two knee recos mainly.And this year I think he injured his hammy which has kept him off the pre- season training track.Give Max time - and support - because I think he will be a Champion Player for us in the future.Go Max!

No one is saying Gawn isn't the future. He simply doesn't have the fitness at the moment. He struggled to chase all day. He laid zero tackles. Zero. He was playing Dawes' role.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I watched the game with a Bluebagger too. Even better. 'Ah well, mate. Bad luck. Next time.'

Physically, I reckon. We were buggered after this game. I haven't seen a Melbourne team so tired in a long time. Out on their feet at the end. Backing this up against Collingwood, even with a nine day turn around is going to be a tough ask.

And he knocked Brad Ebert off the ball, no less.

No one is saying Gawn isn't the future. He simply doesn't have the fitness at the moment. He struggled to chase all day. He laid zero tackles. Zero. He was playing Dawes' role.

Steady on. Frawley and Pedersen were playing Dawes' role.

Gawn was playing the second ruck role that Pedersen had been playing and his job was to go in to the ruck and provide Jamar a good chop out which he did. And his job was to be a long target forward which he tried to do. And his job was to otherwise stay out of the way up forward and contribute some what to the forward pressure which he didn't.

It was a game that said to me he needs to be fitter and that he's not well suited to hot days against the hardest running team in the comp. But it wasn't horrible. The biggest problem with Gawn is at his current stage of development I'd love to see him play with another ruck who's decent up and mobile up forward so they could split it 50/50. He'd be perfect with a Hale, Ryder or Bellchambers so they could do half half. With Jamar being great in the ruck but not much chop forward it's always going to be Maxy chasing little blokes and battling away forward.

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

It is annoying that commentators imply that had the opposition brought their A game they'd have blown melbourne away. Might be time to recognise Melbourne is affecting their ability to play their best football.

Write the names down and bookmark the quotes, and then link them everytime you get a chance. Twitter is good for stuff like that. But always remember that revenge tastes better cold.

We can wait. We're good at that.

[Adam The God 30,129]

Gawn, Watts and Salem are 3 reasons why our forward pressure is down.

Gawny tries but he's 208cm and can't move that well with a limited fitness base. Salem really has a crack but he's the same. Watts is Watts, just zero understanding of how to pick people up and I still question his desire to do it unfortunately.

You're probably right. If you don't bring 100% defensive intensity against the competition's top team, you won't win the contest many times.

[Adam The God 30,129]

Is this business of Roos saying 'enough is enough' and the playing group - who have nominated him as captain for three seasons in a row - 'speaking' going to happen before, or after Grimes plays 22 games as (co-)captain of the MFC in 2014?

Grimes today registered 2 clangers. Dom Tyson registered 8. 8 clangers! Lynden Dunn registered 4, the worst of which came at a time where we still could've won, and was seemingly at odds with team orders as it drew the ire of the coach on national TV.

I think we should all carp on about how awful Grimes was though.

It's about more than a misleading stat like a clanger. It's about his positioning. It's about his disposals that go to the wrong option and put his team mates under pressure. It's about his lack of offensive value. When he kicks a 30m pass down the line to a speculative one-on-one and the opposition halves the contest or wins it, is this considered a clanger by the stat takers? As far as I'm aware, it isn't. He does this sort of thing consistently.

Players make mistakes, but they'll offset those mistakes going the other way. Tyson had 8 clangers, but was instrumental in a number of clearances, kicked two goals and linked up well with Jones, Viney, Vince and Matt Jones. Dunn's clangers were costly. I thought he was great on Schulz, but offensively he made some crucial errors and that torp was dumb football. Roos' reaction said it all. He won't be doing that again any time soon. Dunn offers something offensively though. His disposal is usually excellent. He had 27 touches. With only four errors, that's pretty good. Grimes isn't a good kick or decision maker, so his offensive value is almost zilch.

The standards will rise again over this off season and unless Grimes improve significantly over the rest of this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see him lose the captaincy for 2015. He needs to work on improving his own game and getting it up to AFL standard, rather than focusing on leadership. Right now, he's not AFL standard, IMO.

[Adam The God 30,129]

Realisation sinking in that next year we'll likely be playing the bottom 5 teams twice. Almost a lock for 10 wins, plus a few scalps of the 12 teams above us. We keep improving this form and add Hogan and a few KPP's in the off-season, we're locks for finals next year. Looking forward to the new fixturing plan, will absolutely help us if we finish bottom 6.

Woah. Talk about complacency. Let's just see this season out first. We're improving and the rest of the season should be thoroughly exciting, but let's take it very slowly. Building blocks.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

You're probably right. If you don't bring 100% defensive intensity against the competition's top team, you won't win the contest many times.

They don't play a second ruck. So we had to carry Gawn.

They have Neade and Impey so maybe we get away with Salem and JKH from a first and second year player point of view..

But Watts has to bring more because all of their half backs like Pittard, Broadbent and Moore when he came on, they run hard and fast.

Disappointing thing about today was they played guys like Kane Mitchell, Paul Steward and Neade. They aren't AFL footballers. Matty White had his poor moments. Pedersen got hold of Hombsch for a time. Brad Ebert had a stinker by his lofty standards. Boak was injured although he's probably like Jones and never really injured. Either way without Hartlett and resting Cassisi (and others?) we didn't make them pay.

[Adam The God 30,129]

Steady on. Frawley and Pedersen were playing Dawes' role.

Gawn was playing the second ruck role that Pedersen had been playing and his job was to go in to the ruck and provide Jamar a good chop out which he did. And his job was to be a long target forward which he tried to do. And his job was to otherwise stay out of the way up forward and contribute some what to the forward pressure which he didn't.

It was a game that said to me he needs to be fitter and that he's not well suited to hot days against the hardest running team in the comp. But it wasn't horrible. The biggest problem with Gawn is at his current stage of development I'd love to see him play with another ruck who's decent up and mobile up forward so they could split it 50/50. He'd be perfect with a Hale, Ryder or Bellchambers so they could do half half. With Jamar being great in the ruck but not much chop forward it's always going to be Maxy chasing little blokes and battling away forward.

Fair calls.

[Adam The God 30,129]

They don't play a second ruck. So we had to carry Gawn.

They have Neade and Impey so maybe we get away with Salem and JKH from a first and second year player point of view..

But Watts has to bring more because all of their half backs like Pittard, Broadbent and Moore when he came on, they run hard and fast.

Disappointing thing about today was they played guys like Kane Mitchell, Paul Steward and Neade. They aren't AFL footballers. Matty White had his poor moments. Pedersen got hold of Hombsch for a time. Brad Ebert had a stinker by his lofty standards. Boak was injured although he's probably like Jones and never really injured. Either way without Hartlett and resting Cassisi (and others?) we didn't make them pay.

I agree, Watts needs to do more. He finds himself out positioned too often when the opposition have the ball. He's good when we have it and decent when the ball is in dispute, he just has to work on the defensive aspects of his game. That said, his tackling is getting better. He had 2 tackles today. The same amount as Pederson and one less than Frawley. Our most was Cross with 5. Whilst he needs to do more, he's taking small steps and I'm reasonably happy with his progress. I just want to see progress from our all of our guys and if everyone is improving at the same time, you'll see steady improvement in results and the 'contest'. We're getting a bit of a sense of that already this year.

[Guest]

I was happy to hear the response from Roosy after the match.
We were disappointed that we lost. I remember last year that the loss to Richmond was almost viewed by some as a victory. These days, while we can take certain lessons out of losing, a loss is just that. Disappointing and not something we accept.
Sure, we have improved but winning should be the key thing you are aiming to achieve when you run out.
Definitely feels better than the mauling we got last year but still disappointing. In some ways, it does feel a bit pathetic that we take solace in 'honorable defeats' but part of that is a mindset from years gone by when we were told to lower our expectations.
While we don't need to tear the club to pieces, the loss should hurt. I expect the boys to come out breathing fire come Queen's Birthday. I hope that Roosy plays Dane Swan's quote from the Footy Show in response to a question about his reaction to Melbourne beating Carlton: Í had to check the scoreboard to see if it was real.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

Based in progress so far, we'd be mad to book holidays for September 2015.

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

They will miss Brown and Maxwell who is an onfield defensive coach and organiser - Dawes, Pedo and Frawley could really stretch them.

................. and Sidebottom.

[Cards13 9,117]

Melbourne Statistic Port Adelaide

127 Contested Possessions 112

291 Uncontested Possessions 245

342 Effective Disposals 279

81.2% Effective Disposals % 76.6%

43 Clangers 44

9 Contested Marks 7

8 Marks Inside 50 8

34 Clearances 37

39 Rebound 50s 26

39 One Percenters 43

5 Bounces 30

9 Goal Assists 11

81.8% % Goals Assisted 78.6%

Sorry for the messy layout - cut and paste from footy wire - but who would seriously have contemplated that we could be so "competitive" in all these stats against the top team so soon.

Beyond my wildest dreams.

A tad more composure at the start and finish, which should come with time - another preseason together and a stable lineup - and we should be the goods.

Well done Mr Roos and all the team.

Would be interesting to see where our clanged took place on the ground and how many directly lead to port goals.

[jnrmac 20,055]

disagree completely.. what is pathetic about it? You finish 17th and ten games of footy later you nearly beat a side this top of the table on 9 wins 1 loss. There is nothing to be ashamed of if you are happy and proud of that massive improvement and you are excited about what it means for the future

Just like we did with Neeld when Ess were 9 and 1 and we beat them from memory.....

Just sayin......

[Jarka 767]

What I like about this team now is that they're no longer satisfied with improving and being competitive, they want to win every game and they're getting more and more [censored] with losing. Even when we play the best team.

[Pates 9,660]

Enjoyed the little swipe Roos took at the recruiter who said we'd made a blunder after round 4 with the trade that got us Tyson and Salem for pick 2.

"He also criticised an unnamed opposition recruiter who was quoted in a newspaper article as questioning the deal after round four. Roos said the recruiter should be sacked because he obviously didn't know what he was talking about."

Salem and Tyson, these two will be talked about as a lethal combo for years to come.

[binman 42,683]

Enjoyed the little swipe Roos took at the recruiter who said we'd made a blunder after round 4 with the trade that got us Tyson and Salem for pick 2.

"He also criticised an unnamed opposition recruiter who was quoted in a newspaper article as questioning the deal after round four. Roos said the recruiter should be sacked because he obviously didn't know what he was talking about."

Salem and Tyson, these two will be talked about as a lethal combo for years to come.

He said this twice for emphasis i don't think he was joking (even though after the second time he had a small smile, albeit one that looked a tad menacing)

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Just a few observations upon seeing the replay:

Melbourne were asleep for the first ten minutes? Didn't sound like that on radio, and seeing it, we were in there working hard, but Port are a good team and the chances went their way at critical moments.

Garlo is a solid, professional defender with a strong attacking side to his game. Great to have him back, and our defence are a very solid unit.

Wingard is an extraordinarily dangerous player who was completely blanketed until Schulz took him out of the game.

Chains of two or three handballs in a pack ending with a pass to a player by himself on the outside - I'm used to seeing that done to us, but yesterday we were doing it. This coming together as a team has happened unbelievably quickly.

Salem has a pure football brain. Perhaps I'm overexcited, but I think he'll be one of the champions of the game.