The GW$ Debacle...

[DeeZee 7,312]

But Scully is in the leadership group...its not about getting a kick , its about giving leadership and support to those that can.

[InVINCEable 358]

But Scully is in the leadership group...its not about getting a kick , its about giving leadership and support to those that can.

They didn't pay him 1 million a season for "leadership".

[DeeZee 7,312]

They didn't pay him 1 million a season for "leadership".

Correct.

[InVINCEable 358]

Correct.

Wait were you being sarcastic?

[TheoX 1,220]

Been a fantastic influence on Toby Greene.

[DeeZee 7,312]

Wait were you being sarcastic?

Ha ha of course .....all good.

It so hard to convey tone on chat forums.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,779]

Most of us spent all of 2011 hoping, praying, wishing Scully would stay. It's a good thing he didn't! I doubt he'd get a game for us at present, I'd rather Matt Jones and Rohan Bail.

[rjay 24,648]

They're being very poorly coached at the moment. Yes their defence was undermanned but as a team they allowed Richmond to run out of defence and through the middle of the ground at will. Defensive pressure was non existent from their forwards and mids.

An easy day at the office for Jack and the Tiges allowed to play the game on their terms.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,779]

I wouldn't mind throwing draft picks at at least one of Patton, Treloar, Hoskin-Elliot, or Shiel at the end of the year.

[InVINCEable 358]

Ha ha of course .....all good.

It so hard to convey tone on chat forums.

Hahahah agreed.

[InVINCEable 358]

I wouldn't mind throwing draft picks at at least one of Patton, Treloar, Hoskin-Elliot, or Shiel at the end of the year.

Only one who sort of appeals to me their is Hoskin-Elliot, don't rate Shiel as much as others, would rather O'rourke by a country mile

[Ted Lasso 18,853]

It's like Cameron believes the talent is so good they don't need to do the defensive team things

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Hope they implode. Was destined to fail. It was all about Vlads ego. Wouldn't listen to advice including from Roos that it would be a hard sell. Also Sheeds has a lot to answer for. Can't say I'm sorry. The Scully decision must be biting them in the bum. What a joke he's a million dollar player. Doubt he's one of their top 5 midfielders - run with player at best with no penetration with his disposals.

Gees schadenfreude I feels good.

I doubt that there'd be any other $1m player in the comp that the opposition wouldn't even bother to tag.

Outside boundary rider with no apparent desire for the contest.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I wouldn't mind throwing draft picks at at least one of Patton, Treloar, Hoskin-Elliot, or Shiel at the end of the year.

Hoskin-Elliot, would be good around the forward line, plus with a name like that he should be playing for us anyway.

I reckon Paton is a bit soft, not a fan.

[Guest]

It just goes to show that you should never follow conventional wisdom for the sake of it.

The AFL, in regards to GWS and GC, were resorting to the same old tired lines they pushed in the 80's/90's to rationalize their decisions i.e. 'We need to grow the code if it is to survive/the only way for the game to survive is a national competition'. To be fair, they were legitimate points in 1986 (weren't 10 out of the 12 clubs nearly bankrupt?) It's just like how they told us that we needed to get rid of all the suburban grounds. They weren't big enough to sustain the 80k supercrowds that were needed to keep the game alive. Now we have two AFL stadiums in Melbourne and clubs are getting pantsed on the deal at Etihad. The one team in Victoria who kept it's local ground now make 500k on a 25k crowd. They haven't done to badly on field either.
Blowhards like John Elliot whinge about 'football socialism' but the truth is the AFL, in terms of selling a product to the consuming public, has been very much on the supply side of the economic debate with regards to GWS and GC. However, flooding the market with a new product only works if there is disposable income to spend on it. We are getting to the end of a mining boom (which the AFL should have seen coming). We are also going to pull a buttload of money out of the economy with the upcoming federal budget (which the AFL didn't see coming). Neither of this bodes well for a football team based in a less economically affluent area with even less interest in the AFL.

GC made more sense but was there a popular uprising in Western Sydney who wanted a team out there? It was almost pulled out of thin air. Don't forget that before the Swans moved to Sydney, they were at least playing exhibition and regular season games at the SCG. Did the Swans play a game out at Blacktown to start sowing the seeds? Nope.

The AFL will suffer because of their hubris. They were warned by a senate subcommittee that neither Gold Coast or GWS would work. To be honest, I think the Suns might work one day due to population movement and the lifestyle the Gold Coast offers. I can never see the Giants working.

I will feel sad for the people at the club who are busting a gut to make it work but I am drunk on my own schadenfraude when it comes to Kevin Sheedy. He has spent the last 50 years with a grudge against us (and to be fair, making us look like amateurs) and he thought he would continue it up there by taking Scully from us. He thought that the AFL would buy him Buddy Franklin and this would enhance the 'Sheedy legend'. The facts are it is because of his outdated coaching and vindictiveness to get back at Essendon that this club will take ten years at least to even look like a professional sporting outfit and not a monumental waste of time.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[DeeSpencer 24,816]

It's like Cameron believes the talent is so good they don't need to do the defensive team things

I don't know about that. Watch them against us have a heap of tackles and pressure and do the same to Sydney in round 1.

This is a team who still have a super young midfield and have simply run out of petrol progressively over the season. I don't know if anyone could coach this current batch.

Anyway this team has always been about trying to outsmart the system. Instead of bringing in solid veterans (and a superstar in Ablett) to help build the culture they went for Scully, Ward and Davis. Ward's been great. But Scully's been horrible and Davis has been unlucky with injuries badly.

They finally learnt the lesson the hard way last offseason but Mumford's been injured and Heath Shaw is Heath Shaw. Not only that but they gave up 2 ready to go young mids in Tyson and Taylor for more draft picks.

They've tried to build a great list without first building a good club and if they don't change that soon they'll squander a golden generation of young talent.

[DemonOX 8,712]

How's that professional environment working out for u Scumbag?

Grass isn't always greener is it pumpkin head.

[mikeydemon 126]

You'd have to laugh at Leon Cameron wouldn't you?

Jeremy Cameron starts off in the backline and Heath Shaw on Jack Riewoldt? Absolute [censored] imo.

makes this seem like one of the dumbest articles of the decade comparing him to Sheedy and Sir Alex Ferguson

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-12/sheedy-mk-ii-

[DeeSpencer 24,816]

It just goes to show that you should never follow conventional wisdom for the sake of it.

The AFL, in regards to GWS and GC, were resorting to the same old tired lines they pushed in the 80's/90's to rationalize their decisions i.e. 'We need to grow the code if it is to survive/the only way for the game to survive is a national competition'. To be fair, they were legitimate points in 1986 (weren't 10 out of the 12 clubs nearly bankrupt?) It's just like how they told us that we needed to get rid of all the suburban grounds. They weren't big enough to sustain the 80k supercrowds that were needed to keep the game alive. Now we have two AFL stadiums in Melbourne and clubs are getting pantsed on the deal at Etihad. The one team in Victoria who kept it's local ground now make 500k on a 25k crowd. They haven't done to badly on field either.

Blowhards like John Elliot whinge about 'football socialism' but the truth is the AFL, in terms of selling a product to the consuming public, has been very much on the supply side of the economic debate with regards to GWS and GC. However, flooding the market with a new product only works if there is disposable income to spend on it. We are getting to the end of a mining boom (which the AFL should have seen coming). We are also going to pull a buttload of money out of the economy with the upcoming federal budget (which the AFL didn't see coming). Neither of this bodes well for football team based in a less economically affluent area with even less interest in the AFL.

GC made more sense but was there a popular uprising in Western Sydney who wanted a team out there? It was almost pulled out of thin air. Don't forget that before the Swans moved to Sydney, they were at least playing exhibition and regular season games at the SCG. Did the Swans play a game out at Blacktown to start sowing the seeds? Nope.

The AFL will suffer because of their hubris. They were warned by a senate subcommittee that neither Gold Coast or GWS would work. To be honest, I think the Suns might work one day due to population movement and the lifestyle the Gold Coast offers. I can never see the Giants working.

I will feel sad for the people at the club who are busting a gut to make it work but I am drunk on my own schadenfraude when it comes to Kevin Sheedy. He has spent the last 50 years with a grudge against us (and to be fair, making us look like amateurs) and he thought he would continue it up there by taking Scully from us. He thought that the AFL would buy him Buddy Franklin and this would enhance the 'Sheedy legend'. The facts are it is because of his outdated coaching and vindictiveness to get back at Essendon that this club will take ten years at least to even look like a professional sporting outfit and not a monumental waste of time.

Since when does a senate sub committee mean anything?

1bil per 5 years or 200mil per year the AFL get for TV rights. A significant percentage of that comes from Foxtel. Rugby league viewers in Sydney own a lot of foxtel sets to watch their team play. Having 2 teams in Sydney is a significant investment to encourage fox footy viewers so they pay big money for the rights. Is it worth the 20mil per year or whatever GWS costs the AFL? Probably not quite. But the second Sydney team does add significant money to the AFL tv rights price and if the giants become popular will be worth heaps to the TV rights. TV drives the AFL economy but it's based largely on viewers in Melb, Adel and Perth. Crack the TV market in Sydney and the games value goes up massively.

GWS is a massive investment which of course means risk. I'm not anti the GWS investment. But what they did do was go all in. In some ways they had to. The alternative is a Brisbane Bears fiasco that requires rebranding and an injection of cash/players to get anywhere. So the draft picks and list concessions were the way the AFL try to support their investment.

I think you've overestimated Sheedy's role. Mark Williams did the majority of the coaching. Silvagni was list manager. Sheedy was figure head and publicist and part time coach. The real stuff up I think was getting Gubby Allen fresh after he derailed Brisbane with crazy Vossy via the Fev and co deals. Coming off a horrible experience with old players he went all for youth along with the inexperienced Silvagni and their draft picks were good but their list set up was horrendous. I think they desperately need to poach a new GM of footy ops from one of the strong clubs to sort the place out.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The train ride did him good!!

did he take the Southern Aurora up there ?

[Pipefitter 2,139]

Are they still all living in that condo complex? I think that was such a bad move. Trying to promote togetherness with 18-19 year olds at that complex would end up being a rich kids hedonistic camp every weekend i would have thought.

[dee-luded 2,959]

They have no backline, anyone expect them to throw massive $ at Frawley?

yes, & the Suns as well. Gold Coast Beech's

Edited May 24, 2014 by dee-luded

[Guest]

Since when does a senate sub committee mean anything?

1bil per 5 years or 200mil per year the AFL get for TV rights. A significant percentage of that comes from Foxtel. Rugby league viewers in Sydney own a lot of foxtel sets to watch their team play. Having 2 teams in Sydney is a significant investment to encourage fox footy viewers so they pay big money for the rights. Is it worth the 20mil per year or whatever GWS costs the AFL? Probably not quite. But the second Sydney team does add significant money to the AFL tv rights price and if the giants become popular will be worth heaps to the TV rights. TV drives the AFL economy but it's based largely on viewers in Melb, Adel and Perth. Crack the TV market in Sydney and the games value goes up massively.

GWS is a massive investment which of course means risk. I'm not anti the GWS investment. But what they did do was go all in. In some ways they had to. The alternative is a Brisbane Bears fiasco that requires rebranding and an injection of cash/players to get anywhere. So the draft picks and list concessions were the way the AFL try to support their investment.

I think you've overestimated Sheedy's role. Mark Williams did the majority of the coaching. Silvagni was list manager. Sheedy was figure head and publicist and part time coach. The real stuff up I think was getting Gubby Allen fresh after he derailed Brisbane with crazy Vossy via the Fev and co deals. Coming off a horrible experience with old players he went all for youth along with the inexperienced Silvagni and their draft picks were good but their list set up was horrendous. I think they desperately need to poach a new GM of footy ops from one of the strong clubs to sort the place out.

My point with the senate sub committee is that a body with (hopefully) no bias towards or against the AFL and with a huge apparatus of government researchers and a treasure trove of taxpayer money at hand told the AFL they were wasting their time. Unfortunately, too many of our media these days do not challenge the AFL as they want access to the head honchos and keep their jobs. Look at Grant Thomas. I thought it was telling that a body that the AFL can't cow and make follow their propaganda line told them straight up that it wouldn't work.

I think that the argument you are putting forward is one similar to what the AFL, and Western economies, have been pushing for the last 30 odd years. That the pie will never stop growing and that risk will ultimately be rewarded. I believe in risk but I believe in calculated risk.

I think we will find over the next little bit it will stop growing (in all walks of life) and the 20 odd year party we have been throwing for ourselves will end bitterly when we should have been investing profits from the mining boom into setting Australia up into more than a one trick pony. The AFL will learn that you can only grow a code when there is a customer base willing to purchase what you are selling.

Soon the disposable cash that people have been spending will dry up and time spent on outside interests will as well. This bodes horribly for a club like GWS which really started behind the eight ball to start off with.

I will agree a bit more with the last bit. I think that Sheedy did contribute to the current situation in that there would have been MUCH more continuity had Choco stayed on and not been burnt by Sheeds' desire to stay on for one more year (what was the bloody point in doing so?). Leon Cameron might be a good coach eventually but from a continuity point of view, the Suns have done much better. Bluey McKenna has been there from moment dot.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[T-34 409]

Hoskin-Elliot, would be good around the forward line, plus with a name like that he should be playing for us anyway.

I reckon Paton is a bit soft, not a fan.

I don't know Paton simply looked like he would rather be anywhere else on the planet than stuck playing for GWS.

With Boyd waiting in the wings Paton might be worth having a go at as a Clarke replacement.

I feel he may flourish in the right environment.

Edited May 24, 2014 by T-34

[Pipefitter 2,139]

Scully would be a good footy player if he were still with us IMO. The pressure of the biggest contract in AFL history (at the time) has completely ruined him. Look what happened to Mitch Clark when he couldn't deliver on his massive contract. The demons (pardon the pun) start creeping in.

Sure he is going to have a comfortable life, but he's really going to be remembered for all the wrong reasons. You have to be an Ablett or a Franklin to be in that pay bracket. He's not fit to carry their bags.