The problem was not that he didn't know good systems or gameplans, Neeld's problem was that he couldn't sell it.

Roos has proven he can and that is what I mean in the OP when I say that talent will not get you a game, persistence with the system and the fundamentals will get you a game.

He could have chosen a style of play more accessible to this group but I am glad he didn't.

The fact he has the runs on the board and is a respected person, let alone footy figure, certainly helps. The players have belief in Roos because he has results on the board and he is obviously a very good communicator also. Neeld didn't seem to have great communication skills and the players had no faith that he knew what he was doing.

I think there is a difference between "game plan" and "non-negotiables".

No matter the payers you have certain non-negotiables which don't change but your overall plan should evolve to best suit your list.

Short term yes, long term no.

On the day, your gameplan should be tailored to the personnel picked for that day.

Over time your list should be shaped to perfectly to suit your vision of the perfect gameplan.

This will evolve to suit the trends of the game, but nothing else.

I'm so glad that he's making players accountable and bringing in blue collar leaders who know nothing else.

For some, the penny will drop - for others, their career may well be over.

For me, under Roos' coaching, the biggest improvers have been M Jones, Tommy Mc, JV and Pedo.

I think Rohan Bail and Dunn have made strides also.

Neeld said the same thing.

So did Bailey with his Geelong like corridor hugging game plan...

I think Rohan Bail and Dunn have made strides also.

Dunn had a fantastic 2013, in a bleak year.

Rohan goes missing, but if he keeps running and presenting, he'll always be picked.

Dunn had a fantastic 2013, in a bleak year.

Rohan goes missing, but if he keeps running and presenting, he'll always be picked.

I marked Dunn a lot more harshly last season.

He spent a lot of time getting the ball deep in defense, then looking backwards, and switching back with dinky chips when completely unnecessary - I've now concluded it was likely under coaches' direction, as he does a lot less of it now.

He now does a lot more attacking, penetrative kicking from defense and takes on the opposition; a vast improvement.

Some of his teammates in the backline however seem to still reading from the old script.

As for Bail, I think his biggest improvement has been in his disposal, or rather his decision-making.

He uses it better and is a lot less of a turnover merchant, even compared to the first few rounds.

I marked Dunn a lot more harshly last season.

He spent a lot of time getting the ball deep in defense, then looking backwards, and switching back with dinky chips when completely unnecessary - I've now concluded it was likely under coaches' direction, as he does a lot less of it now.

He now does a lot more attacking, penetrative kicking from defense and takes on the opposition; a vast improvement.

Some of his teammates in the backline however seem to still reading from the old script.

As for Bail, I think his biggest improvement has been in his disposal, or rather his decision-making.

He uses it better and is a lot less of a turnover merchant, even compared to the first few rounds.

True...I forgot about that down the line kick....

I'm alluding more to his willingness to compete now - rarely gets beaten one on one.

I think Neeld wanted to do the same things, but I suspect he was concerned he didn't have a big AFL player profile, was worried about the Melbourne players taking his 'message', so wrongly came in like a sledgehammer. turning the players against him immediately. IMO he tried to make a 'takeover', instead of winning the hearts & minds, as it were.

but he did some good stuff & began the cultural cleanup.

... this has helped Roos with his cleanup, & to shift From our old soft culture. the old cultures live long & strong in the older players heads.

to teach the new kids healthy ways, the old culture has to be killed off, & abandoned... see moloney, gysberts, cook, bennell, morton, etc, etc, all these players would have turned out differently if they started at the Hawks for example.

we in the stands too often applaud a clean pair of heels, & neglect the selfless acts of running down & bulldogging a runaway opponent. we cheer the flashy & don't give enough respect to the little but important Team things.

..... this is the beginnings of players doing only the spectacular. & the rebirth's of our persistent Poor culture.

Good post Deeluded - not many where upset when we let Brad Miller go and I think we'd trade a Howe for a Brad Miller in an instant.

Good post Deeluded - not many where upset when we let Brad Miller go and I think we'd trade a Howe for a Brad Miller in an instant.

Shh, BIG MARKS.

I marked Dunn a lot more harshly last season.

He spent a lot of time getting the ball deep in defense, then looking backwards, and switching back with dinky chips when completely unnecessary - I've now concluded it was likely under coaches' direction, as he does a lot less of it now.

He now does a lot more attacking, penetrative kicking from defense and takes on the opposition; a vast improvement.

Some of his teammates in the backline however seem to still reading from the old script.

As for Bail, I think his biggest improvement has been in his disposal, or rather his decision-making.

He uses it better and is a lot less of a turnover merchant, even compared to the first few rounds.

simpler & more predictable game plan I suspect would suit Dunny. also the aim of going only fast enough to maintain possession. the contested footy also helps the defenders out, knowing that any poor kick should be expected to be neutralised.

the test for Dunny will be, when we want to start delivering the ball quickly.

meditation may be helping as well.

simpler & more predictable game plan I suspect would suit Dunny. also the aim of going only fast enough to maintain possession. the contested footy also helps the defenders out, knowing that any poor kick should be expected to be neutralised.

the test for Dunny will be, when we want to start delivering the ball quickly.

meditation may be helping as well.

I reckon he'll be the 'go to' man for most attacks out of the backline.

Very composed atm and has a beautiful slipper on him - Wheatley incarnate!

Good post Deeluded - not many where upset when we let Brad Miller go and I think we'd trade a Howe for a Brad Miller in an instant.

we need 70% goers, & 30% with gamebreaking abilities.

I was all for our youth rebuild, but they sold the farm, but kept the breeders?

I would have sold the breeders, kept the farm & the milkers, then built it up from there.

I'm so glad that he's making players accountable and bringing in blue collar leaders who know nothing else.

For some, the penny will drop - for others, their career may well be over.

For me, under Roos' coaching, the biggest improvers have been M Jones, Tommy Mc, JV and Pedo.

Tommy Mac has struggled this year. Disagree there, J. Agree with the others though.

I reckon he'll be the 'go to' man for most attacks out of the backline.

And mate, he's the only one that can kick a football properly in that back six. Terlich, Grimes, Tommy Mac et al have VFL-like disposal.

Tommy Mac has struggled this year. Disagree there, J. Agree with the others though.

simpler & more predictable game plan I suspect would suit Dunny. also the aim of going only fast enough to maintain possession. the contested footy also helps the defenders out, knowing that any poor kick should be expected to be neutralised.

the test for Dunny will be, when we want to start delivering the ball quickly.

meditation may be helping as well.

like tommy and dunny.

once garland gets back? we will see them getting a less opponent and all will be ok.

like tommy and dunny.

once garland gets back? we will see them getting a less opponent and all will be ok.

I think Tommy will continue to get the big guy. Garland can play big obviously, but he tends to take the dangerous small forward. His inclusion will give us some flexibility anyway, you're right.

This is slightly of topic... I really didn't want to start a new topic...

On SEN they were talking about the raise of Port Adelaide... Most are saying that they are the fittest team in the AFL, and thats the reason for their ladder climb... In two seasons they have climb from the bottom to the top? Im always suss about massive improvement but for this ill pretend they did it legit and legal....lol

If they are the fittest team... How did they do it? Is it possible for us to do this? Should we start our preseason now? If fitness is the key to success, why can't our team be pushed to that level? I say start preseason now... And let's make our players the fittest in the competition... Why not? What do we have to lose? Surely it will help with the tired skills at the end of the game...

Port's fitness is linked with the former Liverpool fitness guy. Forget his name, but I think he's an Australian. I think it's too simplistic to say: become a fitter side and you'll jump from the bottom to the top. They've also developed their players well and they are well drilled by Hinkley. He had a reasonable midfield group to walk in on. They all got fit at the right time and got out on the park.

Darren Burgess.

Was at Port first before he went to Liverpool and they managed to coax him back.

Massive coup.

Having a look at the points total against Melbourne and we've had only 483 kicked against us. This ranks us 9th in the competition & only 60 odd points away from the top rated defensive teams.

I'm very impressed with this considering that Frawley has been playing forward and Garland has been injured.

The team first defending has been great, pressuring the ball carrier from the center and our defensive structures have been working.

Couple this with the quiet efficiency of McDonald and Georgio ect....well maybe there is life after Frawely if he chooses to leave?

Now all we need to do is learn how to move the ball into the forward line and kick a few goals and we might win another game.

The Roos game plan can work well but only when we have enough talented players to carry it out.

We'll need to have 5-7 proven good footballers (or very good footballers) from our existing list by years end. ... players who play well, week in, week out. Jones is the standout right now but there's quite a few that can step it up. There's also an abundance of players on our list who have very little chance of becoming proven good footballers. They will be de-listed or traded out.

In the off season, we need to bring in as many talented footballers that we can lay our hands on. By the end of 2015, we'll need to have 10-12 proven good footballers on our list. That will bring us up to relevant status (in terms of winning games)

The Roos era could very well reflect the Barassi era. At the end of a one win season in 1981, Ron brought in players like Icke, Johnno, Willo, Jarrott and 1 or 2 others. In '82, we at least became relevant again. The next influx of good players wasn't until '85 onwards (although, to be fair, a number of young players that were added between '82 and '85 just didn't come on as expected)

Whilst I agree with what Roos is trying to do, he's hamstrung by a severe lack of talent. Same as Barassi was. Our game plan is going to be broken down by our own poor disposal skills and a general lack of ability but .... as more good players are added, our game plan will get appreciably better.

We do have at least 12 players on our list (right now) who could turn out to be very good players for us. If half of those 12+ players can become good-very good players for us, we're well on our way. A measure of this is the Bluey Truscott award - we need a lot more players to be in the running to win it.

WHEN WE WILL SEE IT ? thats the question?

not everyone can sing the same song the same

There is more zen in you than is obvious, BB ...

Having a look at the points total against Melbourne and we've had only 483 kicked against us. This ranks us 9th in the competition & only 60 odd points away from the top rated defensive teams.

I'm very impressed with this considering that Frawley has been playing forward and Garland has been injured.

The team first defending has been great, pressuring the ball carrier from the center and our defensive structures have been working.

Couple this with the quiet efficiency of McDonald and Georgio ect....well maybe there is life after Frawely if he chooses to leave?

Now all we need to do is learn how to move the ball into the forward line and kick a few goals and we might win another game.

THIS.

I can't remember a Melbourne team that has been able to do this.

The defence has been solid, but the real improvement has come from the midfield. They've made it hard for oppositions to get the ball forward. And when they have got it forward they have made the entries difficult, not 30 m directly in front lace out.

While a lot of behinds have be kicked against us I'd love to see some stays on those: distance, angle, crumb/loose v mark and also shots from free kicks (I feel we've had a disproportionate number of goals kicked against us either directly from a free kick or from a free kick which gave them the forward entry - which has the result of disrupting our defensive set ups).

We need to work a bit harder on running and presenting when moving ball between the arcs. And we need to work better on delivery into the forward 50. Quicker transitions will help and these should come as we start to run for each other and present better.

I can see us on the right track.

Port's fitness is linked with the former Liverpool fitness guy. Forget his name, but I think he's an Australian. I think it's too simplistic to say: become a fitter side and you'll jump from the bottom to the top. They've also developed their players well and they are well drilled by Hinkley. He had a reasonable midfield group to walk in on. They all got fit at the right time and got out on the park.

I also think that Ports woes a couple of years back were on the back of some pretty crucial injuries and 'outs' for them. From memory Harlett, Gray and a couple of others were not significant factors, I also think that they recruited shrewdly in getting Schultz (2011?) and Monfries in 2012 when free agency came in.

This is not to take away anything from their excellent turn around of form off the field and on field. But I don't think they were hugely terrible from a list perspective. But they were struggling with confidence and some key injuries.