I agree Nut. Riley is a tackling machine and a really hard at it mid and I'm keen to see him. Always held out more hope for him than Michie who has struggled to have any influence.

Spoke to someone in the know yesterday who said 11 of our players laid 4 tackles between them on Sunday. Cross laid 12. Embarrassing. McKenzie and Riley will be welcome additions to the team when fit as whilst they are not glamorous they are tough, they have a go and they tackle.

I reckon Ro Bail has got a really bad rap here. He's a bottom best 22 player and yet people are judging him on the basis he has to be better than that. He runs all day, he get the ball (which players like Byrne, Howe, Michie and a few others don't) and when he does get it he runs forward trying to create. There isn't a player in the team who hasn't butchered the ball this year and Bail is far from the worst. And not many have created play like Bail did for the JKH goal on Sunday which was about our best play of the season. Bail started it.

He won't be a world beater but he has a go, he runs all day, he's tough at the ball and his skills aren't as bad as being portrayed here. He played loose in defence in the 4th quarter last week and did well. Under the "lets throw them about" strategy of Roos this week I reckon there is a good chance he'll play spare in defence or midfield.

Agree re Bail. He at least tries, presents and plays with some confidence. All I want to see on Sunday is a team that has a crack. I can live with mistakes but what I cannot accept is players not makig the right play because they are not willing to back themselves.

I haven't posted anything about last weeks game as i have been (and remain) just too deflated by it. And BB your stat about 11 players having 4 tackles between them sums up why. I haven't even looked at the stats but i'd be guessing Michie and the Toump are among them. In Roos' list of nonnegotiables i reckon tackling would be number 1. As BB says embarrassing. Its one reason why i'm really surprised McKenzie is not in this weeks side as Misson said he was pretty close to cherry ripe.

I suspect a reason McKenzie wasn't picked (and the Toump and Michie were dropped) was because of his pace.. Our lack of pace was completely exposed on the big spaces of the G last week. It is a big problem.

But not as big a problem as the players mental state. How they could not have been up for last weeks just staggers me. They were half asleep in the first quarter and their skill was as bad as i can ever recall it throughout the match. What was really surprising is that Roos showed faith and took an unchanged side in to the match. And they repaid him with tripe.

A few other comments about the game.

• Trengove has to go in the middle.
• I am a Watts fan but he was woeful last week in terms of effort . Again Roos has shown faith in him and he should have repaid it - he is now a senior player. Some of his efforts (tackling. standing off packs, not going at the ball carrier) were plain embarrassing
• Frawley is great one on one in marking duels but his disposal is horrible and he made worse by his him often taking high risk options
• Dunn was terrific and reiterate my claim he is in our top 8 players and absolutely should be on the DL banner - get rid of Howe (who seems to have gone backwards) and Frawley (leader my arse) from the banner for a start

And finally i have to say:

• Jones can butcher the ball but that was one of the best games i've ever seen from a MFC player. Not the most damaging but for pure guts and refusal to lie down up with some of the great games i watched Flower play through the dark days of the 70's and 80's. The mark of a great player in my view is one who plays best when their team is getting thumped. Respect. Frawley, Watts et al - that's what leadership is about.

I support the motion to add Dunn to the banner. He has been a revelation down back over the past couple of years and I think he will continue his great work forward of centre.

Spoke to someone in the know yesterday who said 11 of our players laid 4 tackles between them on Sunday. Cross laid 12. Embarrassing. McKenzie and Riley will be welcome additions to the team when fit as whilst they are not glamorous they are tough, they have a go and they tackle.

Going by the stats on the AFL site that's not correct. Cross 12 and Jones 8 led the way but the bottom 11 laid 11 tackles while WCE bottom 11 laid 9.

Toump laid 4 our 4th most????

Agree re Bail. He at least tries, presents and plays with some confidence. All I want to see on Sunday is a team that has a crack. I can live with mistakes but what I cannot accept is players not makig the right play because they are not willing to back themselves.

All i want to see.. Is a side from mfc that beleives it can win! Not just "try" which is really just another excuse to fail.

Going by the stats on the AFL site that's not correct. Cross 12 and Jones 8 led the way but the bottom 11 laid 11 tackles while WCE bottom 11 laid 9.

Toump laid 4 our 4th most????

My source had the internal club stats.

• I am a Watts fan but he was woeful last week in terms of effort . Again Roos has shown faith in him and he should have repaid it - he is now a senior player. Some of his efforts (tackling. standing off packs, not going at the ball carrier) were plain embarrassing

Agree. This really upset me last week. I thought he was great against the Saints and maybe Roos and the new role would see him blossom.

Against the Eagles his effort was nothing short of pathetic. He stood out of the play. Only half contested when it was near him. Didn't chase, or put pressure on and looked like he didn't give a stuff.

A repeat of last week would see him dropped.

Agree. This really upset me last week. I thought he was great against the Saints and maybe Roos and the new role would see him blossom.

Against the Eagles his effort was nothing short of pathetic. He stood out of the play. Only half contested when it was near him. Didn't chase, or put pressure on and looked like he didn't give a stuff.

A repeat of last week would see him dropped.

I agree. I reckon he was lucky not to be dropped this week and i'll bet Roos thought long and hard about it. He would have been torn i guess as he'd be concerned about destroying his confidence. If he plays that way again i doubt he'll be shown the same leniency. I can only assume Roos has made that abundantly clear to Watts.

I wonder if this could be the cross roads for Watts - his own personal line in the sand moment?

Edited April 4, 201411 yr by binman

I agree. I reckon he was lucky not to be dropped this week and i'll bet Roos thought long and hard about it. He would have been torn i guess as he'd be concerned about destroying his confidence. If he plays that way again i doubt he'll be shown the same leniency. I can only assume Roos has made that abundantly clear to Watts.

I wonder if this could be the cross roads for Watts - his own personal line in the sand moment?

I decided a while back that Watts has not an ounce of mongrel in him.

He is IMO a fair weather outside player.

In a good team he would be a good player as he could play quite well as that type of player.

But at the Dees when the going gets tough he just lets it all happen.

I would trade him at the end of 2014 for a reasonable deal.

He is another Sylvia next year is always going to be his breakout year.

My source had the internal club stats.

Yeah tackles i suppose are a bit subjective as whats counted and whats not.

Yeah tackles i suppose are a bit subjective as whats counted and whats not.

No doubt Champion Data define a 'tackle' and it should be retardation of a player which causes him to have to kick or handball or force a ball-up but I think that more than occasionally a good, robust slap on the arse gets a stat.

My source had the internal club stats.

Let's assume the AFL and the MFC have different stats. Does that mean we're measuring something different? Perhaps "tackles that stick" or "tackles that result in something positive for the team"? Anyone know...or is it more simply just that, like playing football, we can't count, either.

I agree Nut. Riley is a tackling machine and a really hard at it mid and I'm keen to see him. Always held out more hope for him than Michie who has struggled to have any influence.

Spoke to someone in the know yesterday who said 11 of our players laid 4 tackles between them on Sunday. Cross laid 12. Embarrassing. McKenzie and Riley will be welcome additions to the team when fit as whilst they are not glamorous they are tough, they have a go and they tackle.

I reckon Ro Bail has got a really bad rap here. He's a bottom best 22 player and yet people are judging him on the basis he has to be better than that. He runs all day, he get the ball (which players like Byrne, Howe, Michie and a few others don't) and when he does get it he runs forward trying to create. There isn't a player in the team who hasn't butchered the ball this year and Bail is far from the worst. And not many have created play like Bail did for the JKH goal on Sunday which was about our best play of the season. Bail started it.

He won't be a world beater but he has a go, he runs all day, he's tough at the ball and his skills aren't as bad as being portrayed here. He played loose in defence in the 4th quarter last week and did well. Under the "lets throw them about" strategy of Roos this week I reckon there is a good chance he'll play spare in defence or midfield.

Thanks for that but where's you spirited defense of Newton as well ?

I decided a while back that Watts has not an ounce of mongrel in him.

He is IMO a fair weather outside player.

In a good team he would be a good player as he could play quite well as that type of player.

But at the Dees when the going gets tough he just lets it all happen.

I would trade him at the end of 2014 for a reasonable deal.

He is another Sylvia next year is always going to be his breakout year.

I hate posts like these because I am the eternal optimist when it comes to our players. It took me 8 years of grief before I finally waved the white flag on Sylvia. Unfortunately with games like last week, Jack is making it very difficult for me to argue with what you have written.

I hate posts like these because I am the eternal optimist when it comes to our players. It took me 8 years of grief before I finally waved the white flag on Sylvia. Unfortunately with games like last week, Jack is making it very difficult for me to argue with what you have written.

The last two weeks say everything about him in my opinion nutbean

This is his sixth year on the list would want to put in some very good games over the next twenty weeks for him to be off my trade list.

Preview here

I decided a while back that Watts has not an ounce of mongrel in him.

He is IMO a fair weather outside player.

In a good team he would be a good player as he could play quite well as that type of player.

But at the Dees when the going gets tough he just lets it all happen.

I would trade him at the end of 2014 for a reasonable deal.

He is another Sylvia next year is always going to be his breakout year.

nailed it...unfortunately

I agree Nut. Riley is a tackling machine and a really hard at it mid and I'm keen to see him. Always held out more hope for him than Michie who has struggled to have any influence.

Spoke to someone in the know yesterday who said 11 of our players laid 4 tackles between them on Sunday. Cross laid 12. Embarrassing. McKenzie and Riley will be welcome additions to the team when fit as whilst they are not glamorous they are tough, they have a go and they tackle.

I reckon Ro Bail has got a really bad rap here. He's a bottom best 22 player and yet people are judging him on the basis he has to be better than that. He runs all day, he get the ball (which players like Byrne, Howe, Michie and a few others don't) and when he does get it he runs forward trying to create. There isn't a player in the team who hasn't butchered the ball this year and Bail is far from the worst. And not many have created play like Bail did for the JKH goal on Sunday which was about our best play of the season. Bail started it.

He won't be a world beater but he has a go, he runs all day, he's tough at the ball and his skills aren't as bad as being portrayed here. He played loose in defence in the 4th quarter last week and did well. Under the "lets throw them about" strategy of Roos this week I reckon there is a good chance he'll play spare in defence or midfield.

I enjoy your posts BB, have you thought about stepping into coaching?

The last two weeks say everything about him in my opinion nutbean

This is his sixth year on the list would want to put in some very good games over the next twenty weeks for him to be off my trade list.

Agree OD, last year he was patchy at best playing half back, which is probably one of the easier positions to play in this day and age. I've always held hope for him however he epitomises what is wrong with our current list- not prepared to dig deep and do the team things when it's not going your way, as well as wanting to play well when it's on your terms.

I hate posts like these because I am the eternal optimist when it comes to our players. It took me 8 years of grief before I finally waved the white flag on Sylvia. Unfortunately with games like last week, Jack is making it very difficult for me to argue with what you have written.

and to make it worse I do believe Jack really tries...really..Its just not in his make up to impose, and he needs to.

Queenslander hoping for some reports on today's clash at Windy Hill.

Queenslander hoping for some reports on today's clash at Windy Hill.

I am going but you will have to wait for modest report later today after the game.

Anyone know how to find the player numbers for today

I am going but you will have to wait for modest report later today after the game.

Anyone know how to find the player numbers for today

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH&fixture=124157864&c=0-118-0-294689-0&pool=1

One player who I would love to see back is Clisby. I think with his pace and also his ability to shut down an opponent he could be a very handy inclusion

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH&fixture=124157864&c=0-118-0-294689-0&pool=1

Thanks EA.

Look forward to your report old dee, no matter how modest.