No one is sure what Byrnes brings...ask Paul

Toumpas was good, anyone who says he wasn't is an idiot.

I didnt see that coming

It is what it is.

Usual responses here.

Until we have a forward line we won't win games of footy. Forget Clark - no Dawes, Hogan and Fitzy hurts us big time with the domino effect. With those three there it frees up a Howe to dominate the flanks rather than get smashed by a taller, stronger player. We can still add Garland, Viney and Gawn to the mix on top of that, and once we do we will look much better.

But with no forward line we won't be much good and we need to understand that quickly. Yes, we made mistakes. Yes, the same players we hate buggered up left, right and centre. But the will play for the time being until the other guys are fit and no amount of sooking about it will change that.

I'm hugely disappointed in the loss but, in the end, not surprised. First time in over a year we kept a side to under 90 points as well. We had more ball, more I50's and more scoring shots. We just didn't have the cattle tonight to capitalize. That will come.

Toumpas was good, anyone who says he wasn't is an [censored].

when?

Very good in the first half.

Nat Jones was good but Watts was clearly our best player, for mine

Toumpas and Watts better but still extremely timid, it's what holds them both back.

Thats it in a nutshell . No one to kick goals results in few goals kicked and inevirably a traffic jam of hesitations resulting in momentum stalling.

Toumpas and Watts better but still extremely timid, it's what holds them both back.

Watts was very good, but wish he would kick it more, a few times he handballed to someone who is not nearly as good a kick as he is.

Toumpas was good, anyone who says he wasn't is an [censored].

Toump was the ONLY one that ran hard enough to make an option, Howe was a statue and Pederson seemed to make leads but dropped a fair few marks, not to mention his kicking.

There were signs of a structure, and winning the inside 50s was good but the players weren't able to decide when to play with a bit of dash. I get that we're meant to work our way forward but when there's space to run how about you bloody run instead of holding it and waiting for the other team to cover.

They still don't get the concept of two-way footy.

Toumpas and Watts better but still extremely timid, it's what holds them both back.

Watts was not timid tonight.

Well as I iterated we lost this at selection, Who knows how we would have gone given my selections which are well publicised elsewhere.

In a nutshell,

Pederson, Byrnes should never play another game,

Toumpas not up to it a few cheap possessions and so slow, its painful, still not sure regarding his volition to contest!

Mc Donald Hnmm reckon he is starting to be found out, I know he was injured but can find himself being outpositioned and his kicking isn't great!

Grimes and Trengove;s disposal is a worry,

Worst game ever for Howe!

A few positives

Jones standout Capt,

Watts starting to come of age,

Ditto Dunne great game,

Terlich and Matt jones give a bit of dash

Vince Oh but for a centimetre either side of the post, but a class act.

Toumpas and Watts better but still extremely timid, it's what holds them both back.

Watts was terrific tonight. His vision and ability to find time and space in tight situations was exceptional. Was one of the only players tonight who didn't miss a target.

Watts was terrific tonight. His vision and ability to find time and space in tight situations was exceptional. Was one of the only players tonight who didn't miss a target.

Not denying that, but he was still timid at times.

We would have to be wooden spoon favorites after that display.

Pederson as our only fit key forward and Frawley as our only fit key defender for three quarters.

But that's not enough of an excuse for letting three of their defenders get 32 marks between them.

6 goals, 15 behinds, mindblowing inaccuracy.

But we still should've had it. We had plenty of inside 50s, ten more than St Kilda, and even had more marks inside 50 than St Kilda

We won the hitouts, we broke even in tackles and contested possessions.

But lost the clearances 30 to 40.

I'm pretty gutted. I'm quietly angry.

I'm genuinely anxious, because if we can't put it together for a game that was so heavily weighted our way before the bounce, what can we expect in less favourable circumstances?

CB, don't confuse finding time and space and being an outside runner with timidity.

Got to say, considering how strongly I've expressed my doubts about him, Dunn was very good tonight.

Not denying that, but he was still timid at times.

He was our best player along with Jones full stop.

Was stuck n Sydney this weekend so coud not go (probably just as well). With the injuries tonight,mi wonderwhytgey did not ask Watts to play as a forward. I understand he played well as a midfielder.

We would have to be wooden spoon favorites after that display.

You need to sleep on it. Understand the anger and frustration, and I expected us to go much closer to a win than this, but with ZERO forward line you don't win games of footy. We had more scoring shots and more I50s, something we rarely do, but we didn't have the targets to turn that dominance into goals. Until we do we will struggle to beat any team.

Think about adding Garland, Dawes, Gawn, Viney and Hogan into that side and there is a lot to like. Can't win games without a forward line.

There you have it. The lack of forwards changed our game style and instead of playing on and going forward, we stopped and then either got tackled or just turned it over, with a poor kick or one too many handballs.

The Saints on the other hand just rushed the ball forward as quick as possible to Nick and Maister or whichever tall was there. They then nailed a few unlike us.

Honestly some posters here....pull your heads in

Our possessions count has improved, tackling, guys getting their hands on their footy.

Look from we're we are coming from getting flogged each week!

Our goal kicking was poor & if it was more accurate who knows...

You can't fix a train wreck of 5+ yrs in 4-5 months!

Toumpas and Trengove are still making their way to the change rooms.

Funniest thing ive read for a while