He'll be a gun one day. Mark my words. If only he could get a full pre-season...........

I love how on every Col Sylvia thread you chime in with this...

And FWIW - I think he would have been found out even the other night against Richmond - our ball movement was actually quite quick and he would never have kept up.

He'll be playing WAFL all year wishing he was part of at least the wins we will pick up, given he did go through the hard times as well.

At his best he's been the kind of player that slots in as third or fourth midfielder in the strong midfields. Low-20s posessions, close to a goal a game, lays a good number of tackles (considering his widely perceived lack of defensive effort).

But I'm not sure, having said that, he has the attitude to fit into a 'midfield machine'. And let's face it, a top midfield is based on roles, support, awareness of each other, all of those things.

I wonder if he'll get a bit 'lost' in a midfield structure where he has to follow rules that don't suit the way he has always liked to play.

(Still talking about Sylvia here, not Moloney, I feel like I need to point this out! )

Will not be missed one little bit

Like his mate Moloney

Will not be missed one little bit

Like his mate Moloney

I'd rather Moloney than Sylvia on the list.

Moloney actually walked the walk last year and had a good first season for Brisbane.

It it wasn't for Neeld, we'd still have a very effective midfielder running around for the red and blue.

I'd rather Moloney than Sylvia on the list.

Moloney actually walked the walk last year and had a good first season for Brisbane.

It it wasn't for Neeld, we'd still have a very effective midfielder running around for the red and blue.

...not particularly.

I'd rather Moloney than Sylvia on the list.

Moloney actually walked the walk last year and had a good first season for Brisbane.

It it wasn't for Neeld, we'd still have a very effective midfielder running around for the red and blue.

Did you notice opposition teams practically letting Moloney get the ball last season, because they knew he'd hand it back?

Notice how many matches Brisbane won?

He's a crap footballer and we were fools to persist with him.

Did you notice opposition teams practically letting Moloney get the ball last season, because they knew he'd hand it back?

Notice how many matches Brisbane won?

He's a crap footballer and we were fools to persist with him.

They won 10 or 8 more than us. Did you watch him tear Geelong new one in the final term of their big come back. Or smash us. There's a difference between a limited footballer and a crap one. Daniel Cross is a limited footballer. He'll turn the ball over or chip is so slowly at times this year that you'll tear your hair out. When you have 1 legitimate senior midfielder in Nathan Jones then you work with your limited player in Moloney to get the best out of him instead of losing him for nothing.

I also agree with you that Rivers will struggle to get a game at Geelong. I think if they are winning they'll keep him in the team but the heat will be on him if they lose games.

But the main point is we had a percentage of 54% last year. Two state league players finished 3rd and 4th in our B+F. It's a joke how bad our list was and how devoid of players capable of making some impact at AFL level regardless of the limit their talents had.

Col Garland played games on a sore ankle late last year. He's now out after having a clean up a few weeks ago.

Jack Viney battled like a beast in games right in the guts. He's behind the 8 ball this year after starting in rehab to not over do him.

James Frawley missed games last year and we were forced to play Cam Pedestal at full back who had Kosi kick 3 goals on him.

My point is there are plenty of negatives for losing experienced half decent players if you don't replace them.

It's why I was pretty excited when I saw the direct correlation between Vince and Sylvia.

Here's another fact. 10 yrs at the Dees and not once inside the top 5 in the best and fairest.

Good riddance.

Try 2013.....5th in B&F

Anyone who thinks we wouldn't be better off with Rivers still at the club doesn't understand Australian Rules Football.

A perfect third key defender. Is one of the better readers of the play with his interception of kicks. His major weakness is playing on the gorillas/Trav Clokes of the league.

We are better off without Rivers at the club.

This year will likely be his last, and he won't play half the games available.

But if he were able to and we still had him, would he even play?

I doubt it.

What is his value? As a 3rd tall defender.

But what overall importance is the 3rd tall defender spot?

Hardly critical to team success.

And what other defenders do we have?

All of Frawley, Garland and McDonald play ahead of Rivers.

Garland as a 3rd TD is much better value than Rivers.

Better defender, better kick and better creator.

And in his prime.

Even Dunn as a 4th tall defender/ medium defender option is of better use to us.

Dunn's long penetrative kicking is an asset, as is his mobility for a guy that tall, and although not to the extent of Rivers, he does have experience.

And, as has been rammed down my throat on another thread, Dunn is apparently excellent in 1-on-1 contests.

But he is a much better option for taking a Gunston or Crameri than slow exploitable Rivers.

Rivers' kicking is average at best, his mobility was never great but has receded, he's incapable of being an effective creator out of the backline, and he's a supportive teammate, but not a great leader.

So for depth as a tall defender, playing in the VFL, are we better off to have Rivers taking Hunt's spot on the list, or a much younger Georgiou taking up a rookie spot?

I don't see how Rivers' presence on our list helps at all.

He's more use at Geelong where they only have Taylor and Lonergan as decent tall defensive options.

But even now, as they are forced to consider life beyond the next shot at a flag, a lot of energy will be put into younger defenders.

I think the cats will persevere with Mitch Brown as a versatile forward capable of going back, and probably try to convert Walker into a defender, as well as blooding Kolodjasnij.

Now please, tell me where I am wrong.

...besides posting this in a Syvlia thread.

They won 10 or 8 more than us. Did you watch him tear Geelong new one in the final term of their big come back. Or smash us. There's a difference between a limited footballer and a crap one. Daniel Cross is a limited footballer. He'll turn the ball over or chip is so slowly at times this year that you'll tear your hair out. When you have 1 legitimate senior midfielder in Nathan Jones then you work with your limited player in Moloney to get the best out of him instead of losing him for nothing.

I also agree with you that Rivers will struggle to get a game at Geelong. I think if they are winning they'll keep him in the team but the heat will be on him if they lose games.

But the main point is we had a percentage of 54% last year. Two state league players finished 3rd and 4th in our B+F. It's a joke how bad our list was and how devoid of players capable of making some impact at AFL level regardless of the limit their talents had.

Col Garland played games on a sore ankle late last year. He's now out after having a clean up a few weeks ago.

Jack Viney battled like a beast in games right in the guts. He's behind the 8 ball this year after starting in rehab to not over do him.

James Frawley missed games last year and we were forced to play Cam Pedestal at full back who had Kosi kick 3 goals on him.

My point is there are plenty of negatives for losing experienced half decent players if you don't replace them.

It's why I was pretty excited when I saw the direct correlation between Vince and Sylvia.

That's Moloney for you.

1 or 2 games a year where the kicks go to the right places, and he looks like an absolute beast.

The problem is the rest of the year.

And the Lions won a lot of the time, in spite of Moloney.

Notice how his form dropped as the year progressed?

He got a lot less of the ball and everyone figured out that nothing had changed with him.

He's another that might not play all games this season.

But Rivers definitely won't.

As for Garland, he had a bone spur on his ankle.. Something I'm struggling with at the moment, playing through discomfort.

Not great, but not dibilitating. Or at least, it wasn't last year.

But Rivers wouldn't be able to fill in for Viney, and he'd have fared just as well against the much taller Kosi.

In fact, Popgun Pedersen would have been able to give us more drive going the other way, at the very least.

My question is: what would Rivers give us now that we need, and how would he squeeze into the 22?

My answer is: very little, and he wouldn't, save for injuries en masse.

I'm open to other considered answers.

Sadly a mediocre career from 157 games in a time when mediocre performance was accepted at the MFC. The team will be far better of without the spectre of "potential" haunting long suffering supporters for future seasons.

We are better off without Rivers at the club.

This year will likely be his last, and he won't play half the games available.

But if he were able to and we still had him, would he even play?

I doubt it.

What is his value? As a 3rd tall defender.

But what overall importance is the 3rd tall defender spot?

Hardly critical to team success.

And what other defenders do we have?

All of Frawley, Garland and McDonald play ahead of Rivers.

Garland as a 3rd TD is much better value than Rivers.

Better defender, better kick and better creator.

And in his prime.

Even Dunn as a 4th tall defender/ medium defender option is of better use to us.

Dunn's long penetrative kicking is an asset, as is his mobility for a guy that tall, and although not to the extent of Rivers, he does have experience.

And, as has been rammed down my throat on another thread, Dunn is apparently excellent in 1-on-1 contests.

But he is a much better option for taking a Gunston or Crameri than slow exploitable Rivers.

Rivers' kicking is average at best, his mobility was never great but has receded, he's incapable of being an effective creator out of the backline, and he's a supportive teammate, but not a great leader.

So for depth as a tall defender, playing in the VFL, are we better off to have Rivers taking Hunt's spot on the list, or a much younger Georgiou taking up a rookie spot?

I don't see how Rivers' presence on our list helps at all.

He's more use at Geelong where they only have Taylor and Lonergan as decent tall defensive options.

But even now, as they are forced to consider life beyond the next shot at a flag, a lot of energy will be put into younger defenders.

I think the cats will persevere with Mitch Brown as a versatile forward capable of going back, and probably try to convert Walker into a defender, as well as blooding Kolodjasnij.

Now please, tell me where I am wrong.

...besides posting this in a Syvlia thread.

Rivers was drafted in 2002 and played 150 games for the Melbourne Footy club....He was a mainstay in our back line for most of that time and filled in forward when needed.....I don't know why posters bag and degrade servants of this club when they leave......I guess it's a lot easier watching at the ground or in front of a TV......It must just make these posters feel a lot better about themselves......

Well, then you're as stupid as mjt then.

But I tell you this - Rivers will not play even half of Geelong's matches this year, and it won't be because of injury.

Even he knows this.

Bookmark this post.

If I knew how to Machsy I'd bookmark it. A couple sharpies on him playing 11+ games if un-injured.

Nothing wrong with how you are presenting your opinion of JR but I just don't agree (also don't agree with our little chat last week about where people at the club rated his leadership but thats cool).

He is better than a lot here realise, but once again, thats only my opinion against others and I can't be bothered arguing my reasoning.

The only thing I will argue is when someone rates Dunn or Pedo as being better footballers. I can't have that

Did you notice opposition teams practically letting Moloney get the ball last season, because they knew he'd hand it back?

Notice how many matches Brisbane won?

He's a crap footballer and we were fools to persist with him.

Year he was crap against Geelong when he kicked 3 goals in that amazing comeback.

He had a good first year for Brisbane and only people with sour grapes would suggest otherwise.

Year he was crap against Geelong when he kicked 3 goals in that amazing comeback.

He had a good first year for Brisbane and only people with sour grapes would suggest otherwise.

Like I said before 1 or 2 good games a year.

What other match was he good in last year?

Or can't you come up with an example because you don't actually know?

Rivers was drafted in 2002 and played 150 games for the Melbourne Footy club....He was a mainstay in our back line for most of that time and filled in forward when needed.....I don't know why posters bag and degrade servants of this club when they leave......I guess it's a lot easier watching at the ground or in front of a TV......It must just make these posters feel a lot better about themselves......

Just an honest appraisal.

And some insight into the reality of the situation.

It's ok if you don't like to hear it.

Nobody liked hearing that the sun didn't revolve around the earth.

If I knew how to Machsy I'd bookmark it. A couple sharpies on him playing 11+ games if un-injured.

Nothing wrong with how you are presenting your opinion of JR but I just don't agree (also don't agree with our little chat last week about where people at the club rated his leadership but thats cool).

He is better than a lot here realise, but once again, thats only my opinion against others and I can't be bothered arguing my reasoning.

The only thing I will argue is when someone rates Dunn or Pedo as being better footballers. I can't have that

Yeah, no problem, I'll take that bet.

And while I don't rate Dunn as a better footballer, he has qualities that Rivers doesn't have, that make him a better fit for our backline at this point in time.

The gameplan under Roos, as executed successfully against Richmond in pre-season game 1, could not have been delivered with the arrogance of Sylvia and Moloney dominating our midfield culture. all those patient breaks, giving up space for time, controlling the ball... every chain would have been broken for the 'hero play' busting forward with limited vision.

We would've been thrashed in a game loaded with turnovers.

Nevermind their skill levels and ability as footballers, that's the end of my concerns about losing them.

Just an honest appraisal.

And some insight into the reality of the situation.

It's ok if you don't like to hear it.

Nobody liked hearing that the sun didn't revolve around the earth.

we all know it shone out of BJP's arzz

he always said no DST for qld because he was stuffed if he would get up an hour earlier

Just an honest appraisal.

And some insight into the reality of the situation.

It's ok if you don't like to hear it.

Nobody liked hearing that the sun didn't revolve around the earth.

Hahahah throwing in some heliocentrism while discussing Rivers, god I love some of the comments by posters on this site! Thats gold

Yeah, no problem, I'll take that bet.

And while I don't rate Dunn as a better footballer, he has qualities that Rivers doesn't have, that make him a better fit for our backline at this point in time.

**shakes head in disbelief***

Dunn??? Stop it! The one quality he has is that he can kick the pill 60m long and 35m in the air to nobody. He plays on nobody's. He can't take a mark when the pill is anywhere other than on his chest, he isn't mobile, can't defend a tall and is not agile enough for a small.

I don't actually know what he is meant to be.

But back on to Sylvia, I was always supporting him here and sticking up for him (probably another one of those 'this will be his year' posters). I honestly thought he had more of a crack last year but lacks the ball winning ability of a quality mid. He is a true HFF and should never have been played anywhere else.

I think it was the best option for both parties to part ways here and now I really couldn't care less about him. Don't wish him success or failure, completely apathetic about him going as he's know longer a Dee

Dunn has a much better kick on him than Rivers.

Long, penetrating. Not always the best decision-maker though.

Dunn also is much much more mobile than Rivers.

Rivers' mobility has worsened over time, but he was never at any stage up to tagging Brent Harvey.

You're allowed to disagree, that's fine.

But Dunn slots into our backline now where there wouldn't be room for Rivers.

That's my honest appraisal.

And it's backed up by people that know more than most.

Dunn has a much better kick on him than Rivers.

Long, penetrating. Not always the best decision-maker though.

Dunn also is much much more mobile than Rivers.

Rivers' mobility has worsened over time, but he was never at any stage up to tagging Brent Harvey.

You're allowed to disagree, that's fine.

But Dunn slots into our backline now where there wouldn't be room for Rivers.

That's my honest appraisal.

And it's backed up by people that know more than most.

Whos it backed up by Machsy that's what we would all like to know? you've [censored] canned Rivers who is a loyal 150 game servant for the club so tell us all?

Whos it backed up by Machsy that's what we would all like to know? you've [censored] canned Rivers who is a loyal 150 game servant for the club so tell us all?

I think Rivers was a fine player for us for a number of years.

I don't think he left a huge whole when he left - he just created another hole.

I appreciate that he went to Geelong for his chance to play in finals before he retires. I wish him no ill will because I believe he gave his all at his time at the club

But I think you need to drop the word loyal. Did he put in at his time at the club ? yes.

But when you make the choice to go to another club when you could have stayed with us then I'm afraid you give up the right to be called loyal. I dont put him in the Scully class but I won't give him a tick for loyal.

I think Rivers was a fine player for us for a number of years.

I don't think he left a huge whole when he left - he just created another hole.

I appreciate that he went to Geelong for his chance to play in finals before he retires. I wish him no ill will because I believe he gave his all at his time at the club

But I think you need to drop the word loyal. Did he put in at his time at the club ? yes.

But when you make the choice to go to another club when you could have stayed with us then I'm afraid you give up the right to be called loyal. I dont put him in the Scully class but I won't give him a tick for loyal.

Hes a life member and played for 10 years, once retired I think he would still be a Demon.would you extend a contract under Mark Neeld, I think that had a major impact on his decision .

Hes a life member and played for 10 years, once retired I think he would still be a Demon.would you extend a contract under Mark Neeld, I think that had a major impact on his decision .

Loyalty is not a concept that holds much water in 2014 and beyond.

IMO that era has gone.

The players union's main motivation is to increase the ability of players to change clubs.

By the end of this decade a ten year player will be the exception.

They will press for shorter periods before free agency kicks in, by the end of the decade it is liable to be five years IMO.

The gates have been opened the horse is out it is just a matter of how far it gets to run