Cross, Vince and Jones as experienced and proven mids. Sylvia is not a proven mid, no matter how 'experienced' he may be in terms of games played. His output and endeavour aren't anywhere near the three above so losing him and gaining Vince and Cross already improves the midfield.

Tyson and Michie - It doesn't bother me that Tyson has only played 13 games. If you watch some of those games he played, he plays as if he's been playing for over 100 games. Tough, skilled and smart. Michie is unproven at AFL level but there's a reason we drafted him. So he can play regular AFL footy in our midfield. Big bodied, tough, skilled and smart. Both of them give us more versatility and running power and depth if they don't start in the square. They are upgrades from Bail, Evans, McKenzie, Matt Jones etc.

Trengove, Howe and Watts - All talented. All will play better, harder and more consistent footy than this year. They will respond to a coach that they respect.

Viney and Toumpas - Second year. Obviously they'll improve because of our midfield additions. Toumpas fit and more confident. Viney to be even harder.

McKenzie, Matt Jones, Kent, Bail, Evans, Tapscott etc all have pressure taken off. Only a good thing.

RPFC, if you compare this to Port's midfield you'll see there's not a huge amount of difference. They have a few experienced mids at the top and then some genuine talent. It's the same with us now. The other addition is a coach that the players will play for.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks we're not going to improve by much. Our midfield is a lot stronger, our Coach is a lot more competent and we have the easiest draw again.

Agreed! There's massive upside to that group! I can see them very quickly developing into a formidable midfield. If they do, and our tall forwards can all stay on the park, expect a fast rise up the ladder! (Well! I can dream...!)

I think after 2 wins and 54%, 6 wins is fair, even if it is "Low".

I want to avoid the 3/4 time rush.

Thats my game plan, to stay to the end more often and hope they arent all bitter ends.

lol

Better than Sydney?

Certainly won't happen in the year you bear in your name.

I didn't say "better than Sydney" overall - I said we will have a better forward line,(and I hoped our gameplan would be better) which will influence the style of gameplan we play - or at leat I hope it will. I can't imagine such a strategically astute coach as Roos not doing this. Doesn't mean we don't also be excessive about our defensive skills all over the ground - we will not be a north Melbourne, but we will take full advantage of our key strength, our forward line. A vastly improved and competitive midfield will help greatly as well of course

Edited December 9, 201311 yr by Dees2014

I'm with rpfc; some are expecting it to happen too soon.

I think we are likely to see a "Bulldogs-circa-2013" style turnaround, i.e. competitive but ultimately rubbish for the 1st half of the season, then gradually taking more control and wresting matches from the opposition late in the season.

Finals are almost definitely out of reach in 2014.

Obviously I'd love to be wrong.

Obviously I'd love to be wrong.

Well you'll be loving next year.

It appears we have the pieces and with luck on the injury front and being able to realise the potential on the list we could surprise. And we'd have to be owed some luck.

On the game plan, I'd think its three simple elements that well integrated are the basis for a rapid improvement in our fortunes:

1. Win stoppages and contested ball - the addition of Cross, Vince, Michie, and Tyson along with another year into Jack Viney, Matt Jones plus N Jones continuing means we should be solid around the ball, be able to hold our positions and exert more physical pressure in contested situations. Included here is improving our ruck situation with the emergence of the next No 1 ruck needing to happen (Gawn or Spencer). A 10-20% improvement in this area to start to break more even in this area is the key to improving our fortunes.

2. Spread, create space, get ball to outside mids - Jack Watts, Toumpass, Howe, Salam, Barry, Blease form a creative collection of skilled players who can break lines and deliver the ball. Improved stoppage and contested work sets these players up in space and on the move. This area should again improve us by 10+% for better feeds from the inside mids and better targets down field.

3. Forward options and marking power - not since the days of Neita and Swartz have we had the possibility of such a powerful marking forward line, Clark, Dawes, Fitzy, Howe and Hogan will provide headaches for many teams and great targets for outside mids to hit with precision, and inside mids to bomb to when the heat is on. Also allows us to work the ball up the boundary line (as the pies do at times with cloke) when we need to grind it out...

As these three areas of our game improve, confidence will rapidly follow.

Looks something like this, i believe:

1. Get Paul Roos.

2. Recruit/draft midfielders.

3. ???????????????

4. PROFIT!

Well you'll be loving next year.

Let's bloody well hope so!

What ever we do let's no expect too much from full time footballers. Let's continue to make excuses for them. No to multiple game plans/styles, am I expected to believe that in junior level each year brought not only a new coach but a new tactics. In addition to that most played rep footy. No to long direct kicking into a potentially very dangerous forward line. Don't encourage them to do what comes naturally. Let's kick it around the boundary....again.

The term "game plan" came into vogue in the late 80s and early 90s when tactics and strategies were being developed by the more innovative coaches.

Strangely enough, the most interesting of these was developed by Fremantle's first coach Gerard Neesham who introduced a high possession, attacking game that wasn't particularly successful in producing winning records but I believe was adapted and improved upon to work with more skillful teams that had a bit of flair like the Brisbane Lions.

These days, it's all about winning the ball out of the middle and running hard both ways which requires fit match hardened and experienced bodies.

That's why Paul Roos inspires confidence in me - because we can see from the way he's come in straight away and recruited to cover our deficiencies in producing the style of football necessary to win games these days. Win the clearances, move the ball forward to the likes of Clark, Dawes and Hogan and make sure you have a crumber at their feet if they don't clunk the ball. It might be easier said than done but I think we might surprise and win much more than the six games some are predicting.

What ever we do let's no expect too much from full time footballers. Let's continue to make excuses for them. No to multiple game plans/styles, am I expected to believe that in junior level each year brought not only a new coach but a new tactics. In addition to that most played rep footy. No to long direct kicking into a potentially very dangerous forward line. Don't encourage them to do what comes naturally. Let's kick it around the boundary....again.

Whatever. The essence of a game plan is taking 18 (or 22) and making the combined skills greater than the sum of the individuals. Therefore multiple game plans actually defeat the purpose. Situation tactics to be implemented at different times is another matter. Of course the team should practice playing with a man behind play, or practicing ball retention to drain a clock or change to a more direct style in wet weather. But that doesn't mean you alter typical patterns of moving the ball and of defensive structures.

Roos' game plan at Sydney always featured attacking corridor football from half back by the likes of Taidgh Kennelly. I don't see anyone who isn't calling for that.

But that's different to what I consider is in all likelihood disrespectful to the talent of the other 17 teams in expecting a a fast flowing attacking plan to work with a limited skill set team who need to nail basics first.

I just watched the Foxtel replay of the R19 Melb vs GWS match...

There is always so much positivity for the preseason, but watching that was a reminder and a reality check - we really stink!!!!

As Roos has said a number of times "we are a 2 game win and 54% team".

IMO our gameplan 2014 is - Everyone is accountable, be competitive and reduce turnovers from sloppy disposals.

God that was a disgusting performance.

I actually flew up for that game and knew we'd get done to a winless team.

I'm pretty sure the players travelled with the same mindset. No passion or heart was showed. I guess the players were just fed up with the whole situation.

I take heart by the fact that we didn't have Clark, Dawes and Hogan that day. I'd like to think GWS won't have that easy in round 3 with these blokes in the side.

And in the last game v Bulldogs we didn't even have Fitzpatrick up forward along with the 'big 3', and still only lost by 3 goals.

What you say makes sense - I just do not believe that our luck will allow such a blue-sky scenario so soon after our annus horribilis that was last season.

If we triple our wins and improve our percentage by 60% it will still mean a 6 and 16 team with a percentage of 86.

Is that a great deal of improvement?

Relatively speaking it is.

I would happily take a 6 win season with a percentage in the high 70's.

That would be a solid improvement and a good springboard into 2015.

We need to remember that we were nowhere near a win in most games last year.

Re: Bailey, he must have done something right during his tenure. Between round 15 2010 and round 17 2011 we had an 11-11-1 winning record.

Edited December 12, 201311 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I would happily take a 6 win season with a percentage in the high 70's.

That would be a solid improvement and a good springboard into 2015.

We need to remember that we were near a win in most games last year.

Re: Bailey, he must have done something right during his tenure. Between round 15 2010 and round 17 2011 we had an 11-11-1 winning record.

It's more what happened around those dates that was the problem...

I'm also guessing that in the first few months of next season we won't have a president and much loved hero of the club dying and having his funeral in the week before the first game or our most exciting forward (while injured) getting arrested on assault charges or a major sponsor having to be dealt with because the owner's a nutter or having a spate of injuries to key players or your coach being undermined and falsely accused of racism or some of our players spitting dummies and wanting out or our leading goalkicker going down with a rare injury. All that on top of having a poor list to start with.

I reckon Paul Roos wouldn't need that!

And this is it! Has there ever been such a sustained series of disasters suffered by any club? I run through the above list to friends who support other teams and find they are unaware of the sequence. They remember each event and when informed that they were each separated by a matter of weeks there is a new appreciation of out of control fate. Whatever our organisational inadequacies this was so far beyond the law of averages that I still struggle to believe that it could happen.

Upon reflection perhaps Essendon will suffer more but that is all of their own greedy grasping amoral making. I would call them dirty dogs but I like dogs and Footscray are my second team.

The game plan.

Over a few beers last night I had a good chat with a current AFL assistant coach, who's been doing it a few years at least, and was a very successful player. I won't say who he coaches or played with to be fair.

When I asked about the Dees he said he had seen the Richmond game, and without wanting to be "too technical with me" his club had analysed the new Melbourne approach at length, from out first hit out. He was effusive in his praise that "back of centre and behind the ball" our approach, skills and plan were first class elite - a very clearly structured plan that was extremely effective against the Tigers.

We got onto the Dees after he showed some cynicism for the Carlton approach under Malthouse of "give me five years and the boys will be playing my way successfully" compared with the Hinkley model at Port that had "instent success and a clear new game plan and approach that worked". He didn't think ports list was all that strong, but loved how they played all together.

Fair to day I left the discussion pumped about Roos and co and super keen to see us with a forward line that could take the next step approach.

Go demons!

I think the game plan is very simple and everyone benifits from that, it's proven to work and to hold up in finals, the players have structure, direction and a role to play, and PJ's work off field has been fantastic the club has already taken genuine steps towards becoming a strong club again and we haven't even played round 1 yet.

A gameplan that 'stands up in finals' has more to do with those doing the standing.

Our 'possession is gold' gameplan is broken up by bad skills, bad decision making and pressure.

The first two will affect how you withstand the increase of the latter during finals.

The game plan.

Over a few beers last night I had a good chat with a current AFL assistant coach, who's been doing it a few years at least, and was a very successful player. I won't say who he coaches or played with to be fair.

When I asked about the Dees he said he had seen the Richmond game, and without wanting to be "too technical with me" his club had analysed the new Melbourne approach at length, from out first hit out. He was effusive in his praise that "back of centre and behind the ball" our approach, skills and plan were first class elite - a very clearly structured plan that was extremely effective against the Tigers.

We got onto the Dees after he showed some cynicism for the Carlton approach under Malthouse of "give me five years and the boys will be playing my way successfully" compared with the Hinkley model at Port that had "instent success and a clear new game plan and approach that worked". He didn't think ports list was all that strong, but loved how they played all together.

Fair to day I left the discussion pumped about Roos and co and super keen to see us with a forward line that could take the next step approach.

Go demons!

In my mind, it was between Hinkley and Neeld for the top job back at the end of 2011.

I erred towards Neeld and was happy when we got our man.

To think how differently things could've been...

And it also shows how much I know about this bloody caper.