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Dees2014
Dees2014
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  On 19/09/2013 at 01:22, Young Dee said:

Richmond will want something good for Martin and GWS will want something good for Adams.

I see a problem there - a straight swap?

There is no chance of Adams going through PSD is there? (just walking out on his club after 2 years?)

The best scenario for us would be if GWS got in Martin's ear and bent Richmond over, getting him to walk to the PSD where they'd get him for free. After that we could (hopefully) wrangle a deal for Adams that doesn't include pick 2.

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    There is a suggestion that GWS and Richmond could be working towards swapping Martin and Adams.

    No harm in making a play for Adams but chances of success would seem to be getting remote.

    I would trust that Roos may be able to uncover some solid mids who are struggling to get games at stronger clubs ala Kennedy.

    Missing on Adams would not be the end of the world.

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    adams ,seems to be like some 18 local bike

    he is seen here there and everywhere

    not holding my breath.

    when you date so many,it seems like a money game,thats why im not interested

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:06, Rhino Richards said:

    Not without Simon Godfrey you don't!!!

    I have just rung Barass to see if he is up to playing again.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:59, Redleg said:

    I have just rung Barass to see if he is up to playing again.

    Nah just rookie him. Has an attitude problem. Overrated.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:33, Colin B. Flaubert said:

    I'm not of the opinion we get everyone or even try to get everyone (how many 'name surname' threads get started on here as soon as some fringe player leaves a club?) but we should have a red hot crack. We have one trump card in pick number 2. Plus if Paul Roos came to you and made a pitch, it would make you more likely to listen at least.

    I do see your point though Cards but if I were the club, it would be negligent of me to not at least make inquiries.

    CBF I agree go hard at the best (ala Roos), we could land a "Clark" for the midfield, as they say the sun shines on a dogs @ rse every now and again :).

    In saying that the volume of posts by people relating to get Daisy, to get Adams, to get Martin etc as definate gets needs to be tempered with we are in the same position we were at the end of the season; rubbish list with no money, small supporter base (that will improve if we ever stat winning) and very little short term success on the horizon.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:51, T-34 said:

    There is a suggestion that GWS and Richmond could be working towards swapping Martin and Adams.

    No harm in making a play for Adams but chances of success would seem to be getting remote.

    I would trust that Roos may be able to uncover some solid mids who are struggling to get games at stronger clubs ala Kennedy.

    Missing on Adams would not be the end of the world.

    It would be awesome if GWS just effed Richmond over and got Martin to walk to the PSD.

    I have a Richmond supporting friend who I was speaking to last night and he believed they were likely to get pick 1 (effectively Boyd) for Martin, I told him he was off his rocker but he was adament it could be done. Bloody Richmond supporters, they're all the same - way too overconfident and poorly educated.

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      On 18/09/2013 at 18:10, Demonstrative said:

    I'm sure Roos and PJ can lure a few mids. Our forward line and back line is ready to go.

    I am hoping for;

    Adams (A-grade potential),

    * A genuine ready to go A-grader

    Gysberts (Cheap work in progress),

    Moloney (mature grunt),

    Cross (mature grunt)

    Would be a solid start. Throw in one more youngster and we will be well on our way to being breakeven competitive.

    You missed Cale Morton to play on the wing

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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:20, chookrat said:

    You missed Cale Morton to play on the wing

    always thought cale and JW would patrol the backline oh well justa thought
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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:15, Cards13 said:

    CBF I agree go hard at the best (ala Roos), we could land a "Clark" for the midfield, as they say the sun shines on a dogs @ rse every now and again :).

    In saying that the volume of posts by people relating to get Daisy, to get Adams, to get Martin etc as definate gets needs to be tempered with we are in the same position we were at the end of the season; rubbish list with no money, small supporter base (that will improve if we ever stat winning) and very little short term success on the horizon.

    Spot on. I have been thinking that since I have registered here. I should expand my earlier statement about fringe players becoming available to also include most star players as well. I think a lot of this thinking comes from a lot of us being in the bubble. We can't really relate to others from the outside who might think that the MFC is a joke as we have been conditioned to think it's a great club by those in charge.

    We have a bit of work to do before we are a club players want to come to without having to be convinced.

    That being said, I say we should go after Taylor Adams not because he is available but mostly because he can fill a need and his best footy is ahead of him. Plus he has been in the system for 2 years already. Darren Jolly? Dusty Martin (we should say no for different reason besides talent)? The 900 other players listed on here for the sake of it? Not interested and in most cases, not realistic.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:25, Colin B. Flaubert said:

    Spot on. I have been thinking that since I have registered here. I should expand my earlier statement about fringe players becoming available to also include most star players as well. I think a lot of this thinking comes from a lot of us being in the bubble. We can't really relate to others from the outside who might think that the MFC is a joke as we have been conditioned to think it's a great club by those in charge.

    We have a bit of work to do before we are a club players want to come to without having to be convinced.

    Here's the problem - the extra two teams mean that 44 guys who usually wouldn't get a game now do each week. Sure a lot of them are kids but put those GWS and GC kids at other clubs and they are getting games and forcing fringe players out.

    Richmond cleaned up on decent fringe players who had some elements of their games that weren't perfect but with a bit of coaching, a coach who believed in them and game time they proved more than handy.

    I'm talking Bachar Houli (who Knights sat in the reserves), Shaun Grigg (thanks Brett Ratten) and Ivan Maric (that ones on Craigy). Now all 3 openly expressed a desire to be traded to Richmond and all had some value but not enough for an open market. And Richmond at the time was almost a big a joke as we are now yet the opportunity for game time meant enough for these guys.

    At the moment the only 2 I can think of who are even close to this situation are Matt Thomas at Port and Jeremy Laidlaw at Carlton, but they are both a bit older than you'd want them to be and not with a heap of scope. There seems to be a genuine lack of talent who will be keen to move to a club just for a game and I don't understand it. Come to Melbourne, we might not win but we'll give you 20 starts a year for the next 5 years and decent contracts too as long as you aren't complete rubbish.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:34, the master said:

    Here's the problem - the extra two teams mean that 44 guys who usually wouldn't get a game now do each week. Sure a lot of them are kids but put those GWS and GC kids at other clubs and they are getting games and forcing fringe players out.

    Richmond cleaned up on decent fringe players who had some elements of their games that weren't perfect but with a bit of coaching, a coach who believed in them and game time they proved more than handy.

    I'm talking Bachar Houli (who Knights sat in the reserves), Shaun Grigg (thanks Brett Ratten) and Ivan Maric (that ones on Craigy). Now all 3 openly expressed a desire to be traded to Richmond and all had some value but not enough for an open market. And Richmond at the time was almost a big a joke as we are now yet the opportunity for game time meant enough for these guys.

    At the moment the only 2 I can think of who are even close to this situation are Matt Thomas at Port and Jeremy Laidlaw at Carlton, but they are both a bit older than you'd want them to be and not with a heap of scope. There seems to be a genuine lack of talent who will be keen to move to a club just for a game and I don't understand it. Come to Melbourne, we might not win but we'll give you 20 starts a year for the next 5 years and decent contracts too as long as you aren't complete rubbish.

    I think we need to wait and see on this 'master', I would be very surprised if we don't land the type of player you are talking about. This is the way Roos has worked in the past, they will be out there and we will identify the ones we want.

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      On 18/09/2013 at 21:42, Django said:

    Let's get Woewodin and Trapper back while we're at it, then the midfield will be set!

    And don't forget Laurie Mithen!

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:22, Young Dee said:

    Richmond will want something good for Martin and GWS will want something good for Adams.

    I see a problem there - a straight swap?

    There is no chance of Adams going through PSD is there? (just walking out on his club after 2 years?)

    There is every chance via the PSD if we make him the right offer and he buys into our narrative. Roos is a great salesman -have every confidence we can geta this done. We start in front anyway - no salary cap pressure, great coach, pick two in PSD and ND.

    We have a lot going for us, but there are many on this site yet to be convinced, perhaps understandably. Fortunately Roos and PJ lack neither confidence nor a clear direction, and can see enough positives to get the job done. I reckon there is a 90% chance we will land Adams in the PSD without having to trade for him.

    Ride on PR & PJ, the best things that have happened to the club in 7 years, maybe since 1964. We should all rejoice!

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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:34, the master said:

    Here's the problem - the extra two teams mean that 44 guys who usually wouldn't get a game now do each week. Sure a lot of them are kids but put those GWS and GC kids at other clubs and they are getting games and forcing fringe players out.

    Richmond cleaned up on decent fringe players who had some elements of their games that weren't perfect but with a bit of coaching, a coach who believed in them and game time they proved more than handy.

    I'm talking Bachar Houli (who Knights sat in the reserves), Shaun Grigg (thanks Brett Ratten) and Ivan Maric (that ones on Craigy). Now all 3 openly expressed a desire to be traded to Richmond and all had some value but not enough for an open market. And Richmond at the time was almost a big a joke as we are now yet the opportunity for game time meant enough for these guys.

    At the moment the only 2 I can think of who are even close to this situation are Matt Thomas at Port and Jeremy Laidlaw at Carlton, but they are both a bit older than you'd want them to be and not with a heap of scope. There seems to be a genuine lack of talent who will be keen to move to a club just for a game and I don't understand it. Come to Melbourne, we might not win but we'll give you 20 starts a year for the next 5 years and decent contracts too as long as you aren't complete rubbish.

    I don't have an issue with getting blokes who can play and aren't getting a game at their clubs. I don't have an issue with the club recruiting established superstars. However, when we do recruit we need to make decisions based on logic as Richmond did. Those blokes you mentioned were picked up for very specific purposes (i.e. Maric was bought in because Richmond had nothing in the ruck). Our recruiting last year was based on one form of logic: get experience. What the MFC forgot was that some of these blokes had to get on the park every now and then and earn their pay. We also forgot that we needed some mids (we got Rodan but he was always in and out of the side and hardly the answer). I will ashamedly say I thought the 'Moneyball' approach would work. How wrong I was.

    I just ask posters on here that we be realistic in who you suggest that the club go after.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 01:09, Cudi_420 said:

    Is this a serious post?

    Damn right it's a serious post. The group ridicule is amazing.

    Adams - Serious idea.

    Daniel Cross - Serious

    Mature A Grader - That is what pick 2 is for. A serious idea.

    Moloney and Gysberts:

    Try to bring them back!

    I have said since the moment it happened that Neeld's great clear out then 'Moneyball' tactic was unbelievably stupid. Moloney top ten in the brownlow the year before Neeld arrived. They guy can play. Gysberts has talent. Can play I swear it. Had back injuries in first year under Neeld. Neeld gave him away for Pederson.

    We only have one club champion on our list because we had a disaster of a coach and a vindictive CEO. I am not too ashamed to say I want them back.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 02:51, Bobby McKenzie said:

    And don't forget Laurie Mithen!

    the miff cant come back

    he signed a form four with the corowa pidgoens and we haven't seen hide nor hair of him since

    although it would do the list the world of good to have a LAURIE on there somewhere

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      On 19/09/2013 at 03:17, Demonstrative said:

    Damn right it's a serious post. The group ridicule is amazing.

    Adams - Serious idea.

    Daniel Cross - Serious

    Mature A Grader - That is what pick 2 is for. A serious idea.

    Moloney and Gysberts:

    Try to bring them back!

    I have said since the moment it happened that Neeld's great clear out then 'Moneyball' tactic was unbelievably stupid. Moloney top ten in the brownlow the year before Neeld arrived. They guy can play. Gysberts has talent. Can play I swear it. Had back injuries in first year under Neeld. Neeld gave him away for Pederson.

    We only have one club champion on our list because we had a disaster of a coach and a vindictive CEO. I am not too ashamed to say I want them back.

    You just keep on digging that hole of yours..
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      On 19/09/2013 at 03:17, Demonstrative said:

    Damn right it's a serious post. The group ridicule is amazing.

    Adams - Serious idea.

    Daniel Cross - Serious

    Mature A Grader - That is what pick 2 is for. A serious idea.

    Moloney and Gysberts:

    Try to bring them back!

    I have said since the moment it happened that Neeld's great clear out then 'Moneyball' tactic was unbelievably stupid. Moloney top ten in the brownlow the year before Neeld arrived. They guy can play. Gysberts has talent. Can play I swear it. Had back injuries in first year under Neeld. Neeld gave him away for Pederson.

    We only have one club champion on our list because we had a disaster of a coach and a vindictive CEO. I am not too ashamed to say I want them back.

    I think you've forgotten that even if we wanted them, and we don't because Roos likes midfielders who run 2 ways not just forward (ie. Moloney) and who can actually get a kick at AFL level (ie not Gysberts) that these guys wouldn't come back. Do you want Stef Martin back as well? Or Ricky Petterd?

    Neeld was a giant stuff up, but we weren't going to be any good even with all the players he sent away. Time to focus on the future.

    Daniel Cross is a serious idea. Trading Pick 2 for a legitimate A grader is a serious idea and everyone is on board providing we find that A grader. Same with getting Taylor Adams. But that doesn't mean we need to regroup every cast off we've shipped off recently.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 03:17, Demonstrative said:

    Damn right it's a serious post. The group ridicule is amazing.

    Adams - Serious idea.

    Daniel Cross - Serious

    Mature A Grader - That is what pick 2 is for. A serious idea.

    Moloney and Gysberts:

    Try to bring them back!

    I have said since the moment it happened that Neeld's great clear out then 'Moneyball' tactic was unbelievably stupid. Moloney top ten in the brownlow the year before Neeld arrived. They guy can play. Gysberts has talent. Can play I swear it. Had back injuries in first year under Neeld. Neeld gave him away for Pederson.

    We only have one club champion on our list because we had a disaster of a coach and a vindictive CEO. I am not too ashamed to say I want them back.

    put the crack pipe down. that stuffs bad for you

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      On 18/09/2013 at 18:01, Deestroy All said:

    Mick and especially Carlton are usually good at getting what they want though.

    But you make a good case, I shalt not get thy hopes up though.

    who says that mick & the backroom boys @ carlton want the same player? mick may, but what about what Fitz wants.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 03:17, Demonstrative said:

    Damn right it's a serious post. The group ridicule is amazing.

    Adams - Serious idea.

    Daniel Cross - Serious

    Mature A Grader - That is what pick 2 is for. A serious idea.

    Moloney and Gysberts:

    Try to bring them back!

    I have said since the moment it happened that Neeld's great clear out then 'Moneyball' tactic was unbelievably stupid. Moloney top ten in the brownlow the year before Neeld arrived. They guy can play. Gysberts has talent. Can play I swear it. Had back injuries in first year under Neeld. Neeld gave him away for Pederson.

    We only have one club champion on our list because we had a disaster of a coach and a vindictive CEO. I am not too ashamed to say I want them back.

    Neelds mistake was not in letting go moloney, gysberts , morton, Bennell. For various reasons including attitude and lack of ability these players had to be removed.

    Neelds mistake was NOT in pursuing experienced "cheap" players to replace the above mentioned.

    His mistake was in over rating the ability of player he would be able to attract to the club. Replace Byrnes and Pedo with Cross and Chapman. the theory was spot on, but in reality there was no way he was going to attract decent free agents. Im sure others were approached, in fact i bet every player was approached by Todd viney last trade period but the fact is the MFC is the 'fat ugly chick at the school dance'. Her mum will keep telling her how special she is but it doesnt mean shes going to get some.

    Hopefully this year we can attract some talent and it does seem that the club is a bit more attractive this time around.

    I disapproved of Neeld as much as anyone but Ill give credit where credit is due. he got rid of the dead wood but ended up replacing it with players with less ability than im sure he was hoping for.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 03:46, the master said:

    I think you've forgotten that even if we wanted them, and we don't because Roos likes midfielders who run 2 ways not just forward (ie. Moloney) and who can actually get a kick at AFL level (ie not Gysberts) that these guys wouldn't come back. Do you want Stef Martin back as well? Or Ricky Petterd?

    Neeld was a giant stuff up, but we weren't going to be any good even with all the players he sent away. Time to focus on the future.

    Daniel Cross is a serious idea. Trading Pick 2 for a legitimate A grader is a serious idea and everyone is on board providing we find that A grader. Same with getting Taylor Adams. But that doesn't mean we need to regroup every cast off we've shipped off recently.

    I tend to agree with Demonstrative, at least in part. Gysberts demonstrated he could play, particularly in his early games. We cruelled him in the way we coached him. His confidence collapsed, and he became an ordinary player.

    One of the really big things I am looking forward to from Roos is him getting the absolute best out of the first round draft picks, of which we have many, and who are all elite athletes, including Gysberts. That to me is our huge upside, more so than whichever players we draft.

    Our coaching and mentoring of young talent has been hopeless since Neil Daniher left. A huge upside is before us, and with someone like Roos, based on what he did with Sydney, you would expect him to ruthlessly exploit that opportunity. Why wouldn't we bring back undeveloped talent, particularly if we know him, and we can see unexploited potential in him. Gysberts is such an opportunity, and we would get him in the third or fourth round anyway. He would have to be better than a Tynan or a Crouch, and I think he is only about 21 or 22, just the right age.

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      On 19/09/2013 at 11:46, Dees2014 said:

    I tend to agree with Demonstrative, at least in part. Gysberts demonstrated he could play, particularly in his early games. We cruelled him in the way we coached him. His confidence collapsed, and he became an ordinary player.

    One of the really big things I am looking forward to from Roos is him getting the absolute best out of the first round draft picks, of which we have many, and who are all elite athletes, including Gysberts. That to me is our huge upside, more so than whichever players we draft.

    Our coaching and mentoring of young talent has been hopeless since Neil Daniher left. A huge upside is before us, and with someone like Roos, based on what he did with Sydney, you would expect him to ruthlessly exploit that opportunity. Why wouldn't we bring back undeveloped talent, particularly if we know him, and we can see unexploited potential in him. Gysberts is such an opportunity, and we would get him in the third or fourth round anyway. He would have to be better than a Tynan or a Crouch, and I think he is only about 21 or 22, just the right age.

    Pushing it a bit there, one thing Gysberts wasn't is an elite athlete. Never was, never will be. Slow and no tank means he's not a sprinter or a distance runner and I didn't see him jumping too high.

    ...and it seems Norths development didn't work either.

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    • Author
      On 19/09/2013 at 11:54, rjay said:

    Pushing it a bit there, one thing Gysberts wasn't is an elite athlete. Never was, never will be. Slow and no tank means he's not a sprinter or a distance runner and I didn't see him jumping too high.

    ...and it seems Norths development didn't work either.

    Every player who is drafted has gone through extensive testing by sports scientists from the AIS (regarded by many internationally as the best in the world - that's why the Poms keep pinching them) - as a group these 200 plus potential AFL players are regarded as the elite sports people in Australia, and Organisations like the AOC seek to convert those not drafted into Olympic sports for those reasons. It is simply not possible to be drafted IN THE FIRST ROUND of the AFL draft without being the best of the best in terms of athletic ability. I am not necessarily talking about football ability, but in pure athletic ability they are the cream.

    Every one of our first round picks are in that category, including Gysberts is an outstanding athlete. That is why it is such a tragedy that we have been so incompetent in getting the best out of them, and in my view, with someone like Roos at the helm, who clearly knows what he is doing, there is just SO MUCH upside.

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