Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted

You'll find the total average possessions per game has gone up a lot since those players debuted, so it's not really comparing apples with apples.

I love using statistics to make an argument. For example, Shannon Byrnes is clearly the outstanding forward in the competition in 2014 having kicked 40% of his team's goals.

  • Like 2

Posted

Go down the "conservative" path and take who was considered the best credentialled player - if that doesn't work - recruiters get hammered. ( Morton, Toumpas, Scully, Trengove)

Go down the "speculative" path and take for needs or a possible smokey - if that doesn't work - recruiters get hammered. (Cook, Strauss, Gysberts)

Years after the draft - if pick 80 turned out better than our pick 20 ( geez - we could have had (insert any player that is going well in a good side) instead of (insert our player who has been playing crap football in a crap side)- recruiters get hammered. (why did take Marric at pick 21 - we could have Chris Mayne at pick 40)

Wouldn't you hate to be a recruiter.

Posted

I like young Toumpas, he'll be OK.

He's not the quickest kid on the park I admit but a good running coach can work wonders!

Remember Kevin Dyson? Worked for him! Became a very good player with a bit more leg speed!

And Dom's got more upside than Kev had!

Kev's a bit different to Jimmy, body size for a start. He just needed a chance and we gave it to him, he was dominating in the VFA after being turned down by Carlton I think it was.

Posted (edited)

the entire arguement has been exactly the opposite, i have not said anything bad about Wines just that 16 games is far too little time to know if Toumpas will be a good player in his own right or not

Tick Tock time is running out Sassy, Because we have recruited so abysmally in the past as has been canvased by other posters any comparison between Wines and Toumpas must be in the present. As a 50 + year old supporter of this club, I, like many are absolutely sick to the back teeth with lame recruiting of wrong types when our current and former needs have always been best player rather than speculative, "Elite" kicks, outside Run, Yadda Yadda etc. eg Cook, Maric, Strauss, et al. It all started when Diamond Jim Tilbrook was recruited for his "Prodigious" Kicking , problem was he never got it enough! We seem to have always been seduced by the finishing capabilities more so then the ball winners and lets face it you can't have too many of these types.

The fact we have been smashed in the ball getting department for so Bloody long makes this blunder all the more unforgiveable.

In fact I'll say it Now Ollie Wines is and will be much better than Jack Viney!! And so the inevitable comparison between Jimmy Toumpas is almost unfair. Fact Jimmy Toumpas possesions show a staggering 95 % uncontested. I could cop that if he had pace, hurt you on the attack and or rebound and kicks multiple goals. But he doesn't and I suspect won't.

Is there anyone that doubts we would be a much better side with Wines rather than Toumpas at present?

Nar people, the Blunders have been empathic and demonstrably inept and those who are responsible have badly let down the MFC to such an extent we may never get out of the holes we have dug for ourselves. Unfortunately unlike most holes these ones have pockets of Quicksand.

Pick draw blood fester, and until someone with recruiting nous takes over we shall remain the rabble we are!

Edited by picket fence
  • Like 4
Posted

Tick Tock time is running out Sassy, Because we have recruited so abysmally in the past as has been canvased by other posters any comparison between Wines and Toumpas must be in the present. As a 50 + year old supporter of this club, I, like many are absolutely sick to the back teeth with lame recruiting of wrong types when our current and former needs have always been best player rather than speculative, "Elite" kicks, outside Run, Yadda Yadda etc. eg Cook, Maric, Strauss, et al. It all started when Diamond Jim Tilbrook was recruited for his "Prodigious" Kicking , problem was he never got it enough! We seem to have always been seduced by the finishing capabilities more so then the ball winners and lets face it you can't have too many of these types.

The fact we have been smashed in the ball getting department for so Bloody long makes this blunder all the more unforgiveable.

In fact I'll say it Now Ollie Wines is and will be much better than Jack Viney!! And so the inevitable comparison between Jimmy Toumpas is almost unfair. Fact Jimmy Toumpas possesions show a staggering 95 % uncontested. I could cop that if he had pace, hurt you on the attack and or rebound and kicks multiple goals. But he doesn't and I suspect won't.

Is there anyone that doubts we would be a much better side with Wines rather than Toumpas at present?

Nar people, the Blunders have been empathic and demonstrably inept and those who are responsible have badly let down the MFC to such an extent we may never get out of the holes we have dug for ourselves. Unfortunately unlike most holes these ones have pockets of Quicksand.

Pick draw blood fester, and until someone with recruiting nous takes over we shall remain the rabble we are!

Yes Yes Yes

Posted

Go down the "conservative" path and take who was considered the best credentialled player - if that doesn't work - recruiters get hammered. ( Morton, Toumpas, Scully, Trengove)

Go down the "speculative" path and take for needs or a possible smokey - if that doesn't work - recruiters get hammered. (Cook, Strauss, Gysberts)

Years after the draft - if pick 80 turned out better than our pick 20 ( geez - we could have had (insert any player that is going well in a good side) instead of (insert our player who has been playing crap football in a crap side)- recruiters get hammered. (why did take Marric at pick 21 - we could have Chris Mayne at pick 40)

Wouldn't you hate to be a recruiter.

If they cant do it over the journey then they are the wrong recruiters

Posted

Should be easier than that. Go for Hunger, bit of mongrel and ball winning ability and you won't go far wrong! Whether they be mids, forwards or backs

  • Like 2
Posted

He seems like a great kid with a good attitude & a fantastic person to have around the club but unfortunately I just don't get what type of player he is. He doesn't really win his own ball so he's not the in & under contested type. He doesn't seem to be any good overhead. His only plus is he's excellent by foot which suggest he's suited to an outside running receiver but he's as slow as a wet week.


Posted

Ollie Wines is Joel Selwood mk II - in a couple of years he could well be considered the best midfielder in the competition. He has pace, strength and for all the brickbats around his disposal I think he is a just about perfect mid as he can play inside-outside.

More hyperbole, you really think Wines will have surpassed Gary Ablett, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Selwood himself, Fyfe, Griffen in 'a couple of years'?

Posted

Tick Tock time is running out Sassy, Because we have recruited so abysmally in the past as has been canvased by other posters any comparison between Wines and Toumpas must be in the present. As a 50 + year old supporter of this club, I, like many are absolutely sick to the back teeth with lame recruiting of wrong types when our current and former needs have always been best player rather than speculative, "Elite" kicks, outside Run, Yadda Yadda etc. eg Cook, Maric, Strauss, et al. It all started when Diamond Jim Tilbrook was recruited for his "Prodigious" Kicking , problem was he never got it enough! We seem to have always been seduced by the finishing capabilities more so then the ball winners and lets face it you can't have too many of these types.

The fact we have been smashed in the ball getting department for so Bloody long makes this blunder all the more unforgiveable.

In fact I'll say it Now Ollie Wines is and will be much better than Jack Viney!! And so the inevitable comparison between Jimmy Toumpas is almost unfair. Fact Jimmy Toumpas possesions show a staggering 95 % uncontested. I could cop that if he had pace, hurt you on the attack and or rebound and kicks multiple goals. But he doesn't and I suspect won't.

Is there anyone that doubts we would be a much better side with Wines rather than Toumpas at present?

Nar people, the Blunders have been empathic and demonstrably inept and those who are responsible have badly let down the MFC to such an extent we may never get out of the holes we have dug for ourselves. Unfortunately unlike most holes these ones have pockets of Quicksand.

Pick draw blood fester, and until someone with recruiting nous takes over we shall remain the rabble we are!

Okay, well actually his contested ball stat is more more 40% but don't let the truth get in the way of your argument,

and as i have said many times, i am not arguing Wines vs Toumpas, i'm not arguing Viney vs Wines, Wines playes for Port adelaide so i couldn't care less what he is doing

we have jimmy a 16 gamer who is copping an unfair comparison, so of course i am going to point out that after 16 games we can't hope to make an accurate assessment of where he is at without it being mostly a guess.

  • Like 1

Posted

He seems like a great kid with a good attitude & a fantastic person to have around the club but unfortunately I just don't get what type of player he is. He doesn't really win his own ball so he's not the in & under contested type. He doesn't seem to be any good overhead. His only plus is he's excellent by foot which suggest he's suited to an outside running receiver but he's as slow as a wet week.

agreed 100%
Posted

If they cant do it over the journey then they are the wrong recruiters

You missed the whole point of the post. We have recruited following "experts and current wisdom" and we have recruited "speculatively" - neither have worked for us.

To my mind there has always been a common ingredient in all these failed recipes. In the main it isn't the recruiters or the recruits - it is the club they have come they have come into which has failed miserably in terms of a strong culture, an environment to succeed, and an ability to develop players.

When Roos say that "the players are better than they think are" ? What do you think he means ?

  • Like 7
Posted

He seems like a great kid with a good attitude & a fantastic person to have around the club but unfortunately I just don't get what type of player he is. He doesn't really win his own ball so he's not the in & under contested type. He doesn't seem to be any good overhead. His only plus is he's excellent by foot which suggest he's suited to an outside running receiver but he's as slow as a wet week.

He's a hard running outside mid with elite skills and a great goal sense, his speed will come back as he gets his running style sorted, he was quite quick before he was drafted and he will develop his inside game, not concerned about him at all based on having seen alot on him playing

Jack Trengove is the one i think is a real worry at the minute.

  • Like 1
Posted

You missed the whole point of the post. We have recruited following "experts and current wisdom" and we have recruited "speculatively" - neither have worked for us.

To my mind there has always been a common ingredient in all these failed recipes. In the main it isn't the recruiters or the recruits - it is the club they have come they have come into which has failed miserably in terms of a strong culture, an environment to succeed, and an ability to develop players.

When Roos say that "the players are better than they think are" ? What do you think he means ?

After Sundays press conference I am not sure even he thinks this any more if you saw it ?He is now keeping dosiers a hit list!

Posted

After Sundays press conference I am not sure even he thinks this any more if you saw it ?He is now keeping dosiers a hit list!

I agree. Sunday will have changed a lot of Roosy's initial comments. He has now been part of what we are all used to.

Could be a blessing. Speed up the process

Posted

Nutbean is spot on in my view.

All of these new draftees have come into an unsuccessful club which lacks any kind of stability... constantly changing coaches and management. The attitude of a few of these people was total rubbish, resulting in cultural stuff ups like the tanking saga.

With the big clean out of older players between 2007 - 2010 these young players lost the quality players which would have had a huge hand in helping them develop into senior footballers, leaving them looking up to the other recent draftees and a couple of mainstay players like Jones and Dunn, who were young themselves.

Being a financially struggling club, our coaches have been generally second tier which would also hinder the players development.

Anyway, the point is that all of these kids could play before they came in to our club. A combination of shattered confidence and poor development is the main cause of their decline. The only player I believe was probably never going to succeed at this level was Cook and that was just a huge blunder. The others have at one time or another played pretty well and then stagnated - Morton and Trengove prime examples.

Toumpas will succeed because in terms of attitude and development, we are on the right track. And he's a good footy player.

  • Like 3
Posted

Toumpas reminds me a lot of a young Montagna. I think he will be a 200-game player.

Posted

Nutbean is spot on in my view.

All of these new draftees have come into an unsuccessful club which lacks any kind of stability... constantly changing coaches and management. The attitude of a few of these people was total rubbish, resulting in cultural stuff ups like the tanking saga.

With the big clean out of older players between 2007 - 2010 these young players lost the quality players which would have had a huge hand in helping them develop into senior footballers, leaving them looking up to the other recent draftees and a couple of mainstay players like Jones and Dunn, who were young themselves.

Being a financially struggling club, our coaches have been generally second tier which would also hinder the players development.

Anyway, the point is that all of these kids could play before they came in to our club. A combination of shattered confidence and poor development is the main cause of their decline. The only player I believe was probably never going to succeed at this level was Cook and that was just a huge blunder. The others have at one time or another played pretty well and then stagnated - Morton and Trengove prime examples.

Toumpas will succeed because in terms of attitude and development, we are on the right track. And he's a good footy player.

What exactly did every expert in the footballing world see at TAC level with the likes of Toumpas, Morton, Scully, Trengove ....etc etc.

It was not just our recruiters who saw it but go and read everything said about these boys from people who are paid to watch the TAC/Junior football and/or report on it.

It is like every highly rated recruit we have drafted has left all talent, speed, skill and willingness to develop at the front door of the MFC the minute they were invited in.

The common link is not who is being invited through the door but what's awaits behind the door itself.

  • Like 3

Posted

What exactly did every expert in the footballing world see at TAC level with the likes of Toumpas, Morton, Scully, Trengove ....etc etc.

It was not just our recruiters who saw it but go and read everything said about these boys from people who are paid to watch the TAC/Junior football and/or report on it.

It is like every highly rated recruit we have drafted has left all talent, speed, skill and willingness to develop at the front door of the MFC the minute they were invited in.

The common link is not who is being invited through the door but what's awaits behind the door itself.

And the only meaningful comparison between Wines & Toumpas is when they're playing in teams of equal quality.

Until then, it's just hot air.

  • Like 2
Posted

More hyperbole, you really think Wines will have surpassed Gary Ablett, Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Selwood himself, Fyfe, Griffen in 'a couple of years'?

Not to mention shiel, treloar, omera, Martin, Greene, crouch, macrae, prestia...

Some of the "supporters" on here are a disgrace. Typically it's the same handful again. Jimmy took a while to get going last year but has improved out of sight since then. It's a shame some of his older, more experienced team mates haven't improved. It's a wonder collingwood didn't cut Scott pendlebury in his first season, or what if essendon cut the painfully slow Jobe Watson? New rule for all afl players- you have to have dominated a game of afl in your first 16 or else you're pigeonholed as NQR.

  • Like 1

Posted

Not to mention shiel, treloar, omera, Martin, Greene, crouch, macrae, prestia...

Some of the "supporters" on here are a disgrace. Typically it's the same handful again. Jimmy took a while to get going last year but has improved out of sight since then. It's a shame some of his older, more experienced team mates haven't improved. It's a wonder collingwood didn't cut Scott pendlebury in his first season, or what if essendon cut the painfully slow Jobe Watson? New rule for all afl players- you have to have dominated a game of afl in your first 16 or else you're pigeonholed as NQR.

You're probably selling Wines short abit, he is certainly in that group as one of the better up and coming midfielders in the comp

but you're also right in 16 games is far too short a time to make a judgement on a player to the extent of saying he will never be any good, Jobe was very nearly traded by Sheedy.

Posted

You're probably selling Wines short abit, he is certainly in that group as one of the better up and coming midfielders in the comp

but you're also right in 16 games is far too short a time to make a judgement on a player to the extent of saying he will never be any good, Jobe was very nearly traded by Sheedy.

Look, as a football lover I do love to watch wines, and I'll include chad wingard who similarly to toumpas, had a poor first season with a team that looked hopeless. The debate about wines vs toumpas is not only ridiculous for it's circumstantial differences, but also for for it's premature timeframe. It's not toumpas' responsibility to lift the team on his own. As long as he plays his part, contributes and learns from his mistakes. If in years 4+ he is still averaging 17 disposals then we can wear it, until then, give him the chance to learn and improve, and turn the blowtorch onto guys with 5+ years experience who are still making the same mistakes as they were back when they had 16 games experience.

I really hope that Salem and Viney starts to play some good footy early, so that the same pathetic posters here ridiculing toump can start to see a good drafting/trading decision pay off.

  • Like 1
Posted

As a 50 + year old supporter of this club, I, like many are absolutely sick to the back teeth with lame recruiting of wrong types ...

You speak for the "many"? Or just the "many" on Demonland? Or perhaps just the "many" in this thread.

You certainly don't speak for me.

  • Like 3
Posted

You speak for the "many"? Or just the "many" on Demonland? Or perhaps just the "many" in this thread.

You certainly don't speak for me.

Bing this will probably offend you but I think you re in the Minority.

I am happy to be in PF's "many" on Demonland or anywhere else

Posted

Look, as a football lover I do love to watch wines, and I'll include chad wingard who similarly to toumpas, had a poor first season with a team that looked hopeless. The debate about wines vs toumpas is not only ridiculous for it's circumstantial differences, but also for for it's premature timeframe. It's not toumpas' responsibility to lift the team on his own. As long as he plays his part, contributes and learns from his mistakes. If in years 4+ he is still averaging 17 disposals then we can wear it, until then, give him the chance to learn and improve, and turn the blowtorch onto guys with 5+ years experience who are still making the same mistakes as they were back when they had 16 games experience.

I really hope that Salem and Viney starts to play some good footy early, so that the same pathetic posters here ridiculing toump can start to see a good drafting/trading decision pay off.

Salem will play good footy. He has a terrific blend of skills, toughness and poise - everything Scully doesn't have.

I think Salem is one that we are going to get right, he'll be a VERY good player.

This pick 2 swap will turn out to be an absolute stroke of genius.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    TRAINING: Friday 22nd November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force on a scorching morning out at Gosch's Paddock for the final session before the whole squad reunites for the Preseason Training Camp. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS It’s going to be a scorcher today but I’m in the shade at Gosch’s Paddock ready to bring you some observations from the final session before the Preseason Training Camp next week.  Salem, Fritsch & Campbell are already on the track. Still no number on Campbell’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 2

    UP IN LIGHTS by Whispering Jack

    Those who watched the 2024 Marsh AFL National Championships closely this year would not be particularly surprised that Melbourne selected Victoria Country pair Harvey Langford and Xavier Lindsay on the first night of the AFL National Draft. The two left-footed midfielders are as different as chalk and cheese but they had similar impacts in their Coates Talent League teams and in the National Championships in 2024. Their interstate side was edged out at the very end of the tournament for tea

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    TRAINING: Wednesday 20th November 2024

    It’s a beautiful cool morning down at Gosch’s Paddock and I’ve arrived early to bring you my observations from today’s session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Reigning Keith Bluey Truscott champion Jack Viney is the first one out on the track.  Jack’s wearing the red version of the new training guernsey which is the only version available for sale at the Demon Shop. TRAINING: Viney, Clarry, Lever, TMac, Rivers, Petty, McVee, Bowey, JVR, Hore, Tom Campbell (in tr

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 18th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers ventured down to Gosch's Paddock for the final week of training for the 1st to 4th Years until they are joined by the rest of the senior squad for Preseason Training Camp in Mansfield next week. WAYNE RUSSELL'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS No Ollie, Chin, Riv today, but Rick & Spargs turned up and McDonald was there in casual attire. Seston, and Howes did a lot of boundary running, and Tom Campbell continued his work with individual trainer in non-MFC

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #11 Max Gawn

    Champion ruckman and brilliant leader, Max Gawn earned his seventh All-Australian team blazer and constantly held the team up on his shoulders in what was truly a difficult season for the Demons. Date of Birth: 30 December 1991 Height: 209cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 224 Goals MFC 2024: 11 Career Total: 109 Brownlow Medal Votes: 13 Melbourne Football Club: 2nd Best & Fairest: 405 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 12

    2024 Player Reviews: #36 Kysaiah Pickett

    The Demons’ aggressive small forward who kicks goals and defends the Demons’ ball in the forward arc. When he’s on song, he’s unstoppable but he did blot his copybook with a three week suspension in the final round. Date of Birth: 2 June 2001 Height: 171cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 106 Goals MFC 2024: 36 Career Total: 161 Brownlow Medal Votes: 3 Melbourne Football Club: 4th Best & Fairest: 369 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Friday 15th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers took advantage of the beautiful sunshine to head down to Gosch's Paddock and witness the return of Clayton Oliver to club for his first session in the lead up to the 2025 season. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Clarry in the house!! Training: JVR, McVee, Windsor, Tholstrup, Woey, Brown, Petty, Adams, Chandler, Turner, Bowey, Seston, Kentfield, Laurie, Sparrow, Viney, Rivers, Jefferson, Hore, Howes, Verrall, AMW, Clarry Tom Campbell is here

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #7 Jack Viney

    The tough on baller won his second Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy in a narrow battle with skipper Max Gawn and Alex Neal-Bullen and battled on manfully in the face of a number of injury niggles. Date of Birth: 13 April 1994 Height: 178cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 219 Goals MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 66 Brownlow Medal Votes: 8

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    TRAINING: Wednesday 13th November 2024

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers braved the rain and headed down to Gosch's paddock to bring you their observations from the second day of Preseason training for the 1st to 4th Year players. DITCHA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I attended some of the training today. Richo spoke to me and said not to believe what is in the media, as we will good this year. Jefferson and Kentfield looked big and strong.  Petty was doing all the training. Adams looked like he was in rehab.  KE

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...