Please, they only made finals because Essendon cheated. In their own right they didn't deserve to be there.

Carlton showed Richmond today how to finish 9th but still win a final.

No Essendon did not deserve to be there.

No Essendon did not deserve to be there.

Did I say they did?

Wow you really are struggling to understand this aren't you?

Carlton were not in the best 8 teams in the comp this year. They were the 9th best.

Well my favourite moment of the weekend was the great performance of Port exposing the Pies weaknesses. Anyone got something better than that???

Chris Judd really turned back the clock today, well done Carlton!

At least it shows us the value of a top experienced coach.

was thinking just that !!

I quite enjoy the irony of Caro spending all year bleating for Essendon to be taken out of the finals, only for their replacement to beat Richmond.

Only slightly helps deal with Carlton winning a final, though.

You clearly didn't read my post. I absolutely agree with you! Yes, a player having a good first year does not mean he will go backwards.

Let me be clear - Wines may well end up a much, much better player than Toumpas.

What you don't seem to accept, though, is that the reverse is just as possible. As has been seen before (Rhys Palmer's a classic example), a stand-out first year does not automatically mean you will continue to be the best of your fellow draftees.

One good year from Wines vs one ordinary year from Toumpas, with all of the relevant factors I'm sure you'd like to pretend don't exist (Port's midfield, Port's coaches vs Neeld), does not rule in your favour.

Of course I do, I just don't see it as inevitable as some on here do. In fact I think I pointed out to you in my last post that it was just as likely that Wines would be the better player after you said.

Thus, the mere fact Wines has had a better first year than Toumpas does not mean he is the better player overall, and thus does not mean we should have taken him.

I said

because Wines has had a better first year, it doesn't mean he will not be a better player overall, either

So you have an opinion I have an opinion and thats what forums are all about; you seem to want to make it personal with me, which doesn't concern me, I guess it's your style and I'm big enough to give as good as I get.

After a terrible year watching Melbourne get done from pillar to post ( like most recent years ) this was a good weekend.

Haw and Sydney. Don't care.

Freo over Geelong was excellent. Selwood and Johnson can go and play sooky sooky together.

Collingwood losing was just orgasmic. To see Buckleys reaction and that one of McGuire in their changerooms after the game was brilliant.

And thankfully Richmond got done so they couldn't beat 9th in a final. LMAO. All the carrying on about the tiges in the 8 just made me puke.

He knows how to play a game of cards does Mouse. Kudos for that. Hate that club though !

Cracking finals series so far.

Roos asked a few times in the post match interviews why Duigan wasn't getting a game. Would love him at Melbourne. Was chuffed to see him get a chance and do well.

Please, they only made finals because Essendon cheated. In their own right they didn't deserve to be there.

Carlton showed Richmond today how to finish 9th but still win a final.

I don't want to get in this argument but Essendon were demoted because they cheated, it's assumed that if they didn't, they wouldn't have performed well enough to make the finals.

If an athlete is found to have used drugs then his placing is revoked because it was gained illegally.

Cracking finals series so far.

Roos asked a few times in the post match interviews why Duigan wasn't getting a game. Would love him at Melbourne. Was chuffed to see him get a chance and do well.

Hacksaw Jim Duggan was very good.

Of course I do, I just don't see it as inevitable as some on here do. In fact I think I pointed out to you in my last post that it was just as likely that Wines would be the better player after you said.

Thus, the mere fact Wines has had a better first year than Toumpas does not mean he is the better player overall, and thus does not mean we should have taken him.

I said

because Wines has had a better first year, it doesn't mean he will not be a better player overall, either

So you have an opinion I have an opinion and thats what forums are all about; you seem to want to make it personal with me, which doesn't concern me, I guess it's your style and I'm big enough to give as good as I get.

Where did this 'personal' stuff come from? As you say, forums are about debating things and having opinions, and all that's gone on here is discussing various opinions.

Your argument in this thread has been that, apparently, many on here argue that a good first year indicates a poor career to follow. I don't agree with that, but regardless, the point I made was that it's entirely possible that Toumpas will end up better than Wines, and that Wines' better first year is not definitive of the issue.

I think, after all this time, you agree.

Where did this 'personal' stuff come from? As you say, forums are about debating things and having opinions, and all that's gone on here is discussing various opinions.

Your argument in this thread has been that, apparently, many on here argue that a good first year indicates a poor career to follow. I don't agree with that, but regardless, the point I made was that it's entirely possible that Toumpas will end up better than Wines, and that Wines' better first year is not definitive of the issue.

I think, after all this time, you agree.

Of course it's possible, either scenario is possible, that is my point and always has been.

In 5 years time we may watch Toumpas running around at Casey and Ollie winning the Norm Smith medal; alternatively Toumpas may go on to have a stellar career and Ollie may never improve. But on their first year efforts you'd have to say Ollie's in front and perhaps the reason the port midfield is good is because of him not the other way around. There are always alternatives its not just cut and dried.

Oh and the personal stuff, you know exactly what I mean so let's not play dumb.

Edited September 8, 201312 yr by RobbieF

I don't want to get in this argument but Essendon were demoted because they cheated, it's assumed that if they didn't, they wouldn't have performed well enough to make the finals.

If an athlete is found to have used drugs then his placing is revoked because it was gained illegally.

Spot on Robbie

Did I say they did?

Wow you really are struggling to understand this aren't you?

Carlton were not in the best 8 teams in the comp this year. They were the 9th best.

No because one team were cheats and did not deserve to be there.

Carlton finished eighth best!

Was funny watching Fox Footy and seeing Roos sitting there in his suite and thinking bloody hell he's our coach!

Still pinching myself tbh,

Hahaha! The talkback has started.

"Sack Hardwick..We should have got Roos..."

The Tiges are shattered. (As expected. They hard Carlscum by the balls and let go..)

Memories of 1987 came back today. Smashing Norf in week one.

Wow who would have predicted that next week it would be gee v port and syd v carlton.

Im so happy the pies are out, geelong lost and richmond are out. It didnt bother me that carlton won. I was sick of the tigers supporters including high profile ones who went on and on about richmond winning and getting to the GF.

The funny thing is collingwood supporters are mad because Mick and Carlton got further, Essendon are mad because it was carlton who took there spot and are through to the semis and richmond are mad because they lost to there arch enemy.

Cannot wait to listen to the hot breakfast tomorrow. Poor Luke Darcy will have to cheer up 2 very heartbroken men.

Maybe we should send a box of Kleenex to Buckies and Eddie spaghetti?

Priceless

Nice to c that annoying little bug KB having to swallow a HUGE piece of humble pie tomorrow morning on SEN.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke

Cant stand listening to him.

Richmond are pretenders going nowhere

Give us a midfield and we would smash them

They played like millionares today. They never really pressured Carlscum in front of goal.

Paid the price bad.

Saw this in an article in the Age

A shocked Buckley lamented his side's shoddy disposal, including 27 Collingwood kicks ending with Port Adelaide, which he said must be a "world record". "Our use by hand and by foot was deplorable, and that's as bad as we've been all year," he said. "I didn't see that coming".

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shocked-buckley-says-pies-must-leave-past-behind-20130908-2td55.html#ixzz2eIC4DFTR

Where have I heard that before????

Must be a pre requisite at the collywobbles.

Made me laugh.

What a great weekend of football. I rarely barrack for Carlton, but I'm so disgusted after being supposedly neck and neck with Richmond as 'next big things' and then ploughing of a cliff that I can't stand seeing Richmond do well. I'm basically hoping that teams breathing down our neck in the premiership cup collection stakes (Hawks, Cats, Tiges) get bundled out. There's been so little to hang our hats on that being the fourth-best club of all-time is one of the few things to cling to.

Great pressure footy from the four winners this week. Fortunately we have a coach now with an understanding of this.

Saw this in an article in the Age

A shocked Buckley lamented his side's shoddy disposal, including 27 Collingwood kicks ending with Port Adelaide, which he said must be a "world record". "Our use by hand and by foot was deplorable, and that's as bad as we've been all year," he said. "I didn't see that coming".

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shocked-buckley-says-pies-must-leave-past-behind-20130908-2td55.html#ixzz2eIC4DFTR

Where have I heard that before????

Must be a pre requisite at the collywobbles.

Made me laugh.

Heard that as well and had a laugh.