He could never be coached to be hard at it - never had it. Putting him in the twos would not have yielded that quality.

We've got a young Viney going ape [censored] in every contested possession, scrapping like a pit bull, and Watts running away from the contest.

I'm happy to take a pick in the mid 30s for him.

This is asset destruction. You can't run a club like this.

If he is worth more to us than we can get for him - then we keep him.

If all he will be is a HBF with a great skills then he is worth more than ND30.

List management is an artform in need of some science and shoving Watts out the door for ND 30 is terrible list management.

We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen.

That is asset destruction.

This is asset destruction. You can't run a club like this. If he is worth more to us than we can get for him - then we keep him. If all he will be is a HBF with a great skills then he is worth more than ND30. List management is an artform in need of some science and shoving Watts out the door for ND 30 is terrible list management. We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen. That is asset destruction.

That's an elegant illustration of your argument, and hard to argue against.

I realised yesterday for the first time that the problem with Jack Watts is resolutely not the MFC, and we all know we've been a problem to so much, but that he just doesn't have the stomach for it. The reason I'm as keen as yellow spice to get rid of him for something decent is that he's just not up to it. But having lost that worry, now I'm concerned every other club knows it. So here's hoping the right people at those clubs think he has real value, like many on Demonland still do.

we heard you the first time Belzebub.... What's your point? Are you still in the minority here?

hmmm....funny how things change

Jack Watts will be a player - the problem is it won't be at our club.

We have way too big an expectation on him - that's the probalem that goes with being taken at No.1 in the draft.

He can't live up to our expectations because he's a highly-skilled player that will be a classy finisher at a good club that has plenty of tough nuts and a good culture.

It's in everybody's interests for him to go because he doesn't have the hard-hitting game that we need to lift us out of the doldrums. Jesse Hogan appears to have that although please don't expect too much next season from him.

If he's smart he'll go to Freo where he can spend a year or two sitting next to Pav and Mayne and kicking a lazy three or four each week. He's quick on the lead so he'll be suited to Subiaco.

If he's not smart he'll go to Carlton where they will want to be their remedy for everything and be a gun straight away replacing Jarrad Waite.

As to what we'll get for him, he probably rates about a 10-18 pick now. Freo will have pick 14-17 I suspect so it may be a direct trade.

But personally I'd prefer if we tried to nab fringe youngsters Tom Sheridan and Hayden Crozier from them in exchange.

That would give us two young kids who are struggling to break into their side that has plenty of season-bodied midfielders.

Jack Watts will be a player - the problem is it won't be at our club.

We have way too big an expectation on him - that's the probalem that goes with being taken at No.1 in the draft.

He can't live up to our expectations because he's a highly-skilled player that will be a classy finisher at a good club that has plenty of tough nuts and a good culture.

.....

No he wont...and Cale says hello

If he's smart he'll go to Freo where he can spend a year or two sitting next to Pav and Mayne and kicking a lazy three or four each week.

certainly sounds like his go

hmmm....funny how things change

looks like your pushes might have work.... Well done...

This poll was created last week.... And most here have change there opinion because of one game....jeez...

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by tatu

We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen.

Oh god...

looks like your pushes might have work.... Well done...

This poll was created last week.... And most here have change there opinion because of one game....jeez...

The point was , not to gloat, but to highlight how volatile opinions can be around here. ( im not innocent by any means )

I may have erred originally by not offering a middle ground and i sensed some may have preferred that to either of the extremes.

Even I am somewhat taken aback by the display of revision. Still. he has made it easy i think for people to pause and reconsider.

The actually number of voters that seems to have changed though is relatively small.

JW is a number one pick with a fair amount of skill, In a good side he would be a valuable player.

IMO If someone wants him then they pay top price.

No takers at that level, then he plays for the MFC on a reasonable contract.

If he is not happy with that option then into the preseason draft where we will have no 2 pick.

He either goes to GWS or the MFC.

Those are your options JW.

Time for the MFC to get tuff in all sorts of areas.

This is one of the first for me.

looks like your pushes might have work.... Well done...

This poll was created last week.... And most here have change there opinion because of one game....jeez...

I don't think it was a result of that "one game"... you will probably find it was because that extremely disinterested looking performance came hot on the heels of his comments on the Footy Show. I didn't think his comments on that show were anything to be overly concerned about, but I do have to admit that after seeing how he followed them up in that game, I am now of the opinion he is there in body only.

I am also wondering whether that performance might have been influenced by any responses he may have got to his FS appearance from his team mates etc.

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by hardtack

JW is a number one pick with a fair amount of skill, In a good side he would be a valuable player.

IMO If someone wants him then they pay top price.

No takers at that level, then he plays for the MFC on a reasonable contract.

If he is not happy with that option then into the preseason draft where we will have no 2 pick.

He either goes to GWS or the MFC.

Those are your options JW.

Time for the MFC to get tuff in all sorts of areas.

This is one of the first for me.

Now Old...you know I was a JW fan from the beginning and gave this kid quite a large berth as comes delivering on potential but Ive come to the conclusion after some rather deep thinks on this that i was simply , and somewhat foolishly, self deceiving. Yes he has talent, he is skillful, a great kick and wonderful finisher of the play but he just seems to have NO appetite for the meat and 3 veg part of the game.

I can tell you right now If I were playing on him or he on me ( if that were a possibility lol ) at the very first opportunity in the game , and provided it fair Id run at him hard ( and stop late) I can pretty well guarantee you he wouldnt come within 5 m of me the rest of the game !! Now if I know that you can be assured others do to.

I think we cut our losses here, hes just a shadow jumper

JW is a number one pick with a fair amount of skill, In a good side he would be a valuable player.

IMO If someone wants him then they pay top price.

No takers at that level, then he plays for the MFC on a reasonable contract.

If he is not happy with that option then into the preseason draft where we will have no 2 pick.

He either goes to GWS or the MFC.

Those are your options JW.

Time for the MFC to get tuff in all sorts of areas.

This is one of the first for me.

this type of thing has been discussed in the past but it doesn't make any sense. You can't tell a bloke 'if you leave us we'll just draft you back'

Agree with much of this until the Gen Y rant. Totally irrelevant, discriminatory and inflammatory.

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's my way of explaining a lack of work ethic that I can't understand. It helps me to generalise so I've got something to pin my frustrations on at times like these. Probably unfair to hang it on Gen Y. I'm sure there are lots of good hard working youngsters out there. They're just not at MFC.

I am also wondering whether that performance might have been influenced by any responses he may have got to his FS appearance from his team mates etc.

Funny you say that. I noticed him trying to give his teammates a rev up at the breaks. Judging by their body language, none of them were the least bit interested in what he had to say. No eye contact whatsoever.

The cynic in me thought it looked like a guy trying to show he is still a team man. I wasn't buying it, and neither it seemed were his colleagues.

Funny you say that. I noticed him trying to give his teammates a rev up at the breaks.

He's also very good at initiating those low-5 hand-taps with the other backmen each time we concede a goal.

He's also very good at initiating those low-5 hand-taps with the other backmen each time we concede a goal.

His palm must be red raw by the end of the game.

A few weeks ago I was scathing at Jack's performance against GWS (the thread was later deleted). I have tempered a little bit since then and my opinion follows.

He should leave.

He is not as good as he should be.

BUT...

I do not blame him for wanting to leave.

I do not blame him for not being as good as he should.

AND...

I would wish him all the best at another club (be easier if it wasn't a club I detest...) and hope he turns into a very, very good AFL player.

Basically the MFC stuffed this kid up. Too much pressure. Used him as a marketing tool. Pathertic development. We didn't want to play good football (tanked) just when he should have been learning what the AFL was all about.

He owes us nothing.

If he decides to stay then great. I really hope we get the right FD in place to help him reach his potential.

He he leaves, then I will hold no anomosity towards him.

no, while we were list managing, those 1st year & 2nd year babes should have been learning their craft in ideally our standalone reserves team. spent 2 years there whilst we slowly rebuilt the list... back around 2010..

Jnr, Jamar & other senior players should have led the senior team, whilst some other senior players should have been traded to teams of their choice for picks. continuing the rebuild cycle until we had a good bunch of kids strong enough to come thru.

would could have traded some senior players for other leader types who weren't getting a go at their clubs... whilst our kids were growing.

Jack is responsible for his outlook on life & footy, & his casualness with winning is his. if he had grimes desire he would be a champion.

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's my way of explaining a lack of work ethic that I can't understand. It helps me to generalise so I've got something to pin my frustrations on at times like these. Probably unfair to hang it on Gen Y. I'm sure there are lots of good hard working youngsters out there. They're just not at MFC.

Jack Viney says 'g'day'.

this type of thing has been discussed in the past but it doesn't make any sense. You can't tell a bloke 'if you leave us we'll just draft you back'

The point is you telling him we will only trade you for a high pick or very good player.

Beyond that you go into the Pre season draft and guess who has no.1 pick.

What do you want to do C&B Trade him for a has been or Round 2 pick?

It is well and truely time the MFC got tough on everything we do.

He is towards the front of the queue.

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by old dee

This is asset destruction. You can't run a club like this.

If he is worth more to us than we can get for him - then we keep him.

If all he will be is a HBF with a great skills then he is worth more than ND30.

List management is an artform in need of some science and shoving Watts out the door for ND 30 is terrible list management.

We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen.

That is asset destruction.

It's also called moving on.

Cut your losses and you're not only removing an under performing liability, you're shifting a culture.

It's also called moving on.

Cut your losses and you're not only removing an under performing liability, you're shifting a culture.

I think this may well be the case. Whats Watts worth.... only what we can get in that particular market

what would you do old ? how do we deal with the Watts offloading ?

The point is you telling him we will only trade you for a high pick or very good player.

Beyond that you go into the Pre season draft and guess who has no.1 pick.

What do you want to do C&B Trade him for a has been or Round 2 pick?

It is well and truely time the MFC got tough on everything we do.

He is towards the front of the queue.

so in your scenario, he wants out, having burnt his bridges with everyone at the club this week and we say 'only for a good deal' and then we don't receive a good offer. What then, we force him to stay and have a bloke around the place that is getting nothing but contempt, you can't run a side like that. If he wants to go they'll have to make it happen even if the deal is not so great

I think this may well be the case. Whats Watts worth.... only what we can get in that particular market

wots watts worth? milli amps.