"Smugness" and "boasting"?

C'mon Jack, really have a good look at Jobes interview.

He was asked the question and he answered it, probably too honestly for his own good.

I'm coping a lot on here, and most of it is fine, but I won't cop that you think Jobe was smug with his admission.

You're better than that.

But your other points are valid, and I think people here are misreading what I am saying.

I am in complete agreement that any minor confusions between ASADA and WADA along the way should in no way lessen any impact on what Essendon has done and what will come of this.

The "Chinks in the armour" comment was just giving you guys an insight into what it's like to be an Essendon person at the moment.

I don't think the WADA/ASADA stuff is a chink, but as supporters, and I guess as a club, we are always looking for something.

And bing181, I've long stopped trying to "reinforce my argument" on here a week ago. No point. You guys have your minds made up, and rightly so.

I come here, have a bit of a chat about it, no real biggie for me.

I read that people here want my club to become bankrupt, kicked out of the comp forever, we are called Essendrugs, everyone is dancing on our graves and we aren't even in the ground yet, and you guys are loving it. And please don't deny it.

But honestly mate, it's fine. I have a pretty thick skin these days. This is a Melbourne FC forum.

I'm not here looking for sympathy or an argument.

So if a little light hearted comment about cheerleaders for team ASADA bothers you, I'm sorry.

I have to say my recollection of Jobe's interview aligns more with you than with Jack. I don't remember him being cocky about it. He seemed confident that what he took was legal.

Personally I'm not dancing on any graves. I just want the Essendon players to be punished proportionately to what happened. 2 year bans like any other athlete on the world stage would get, none of the backdating crapola that effectively reduces the punishment.

I think a lot of the anger on here is because we can see the players getting off lightly and we just want them treated as they would be if they were playing any other sport (or club). Also there's a bit of a victim mentality when it comes to the MFC, which is probably justifiable after the tanking issue. To have so many clubs clearly do the same thing but only us be punished for it is a scar on our supporters' psyche.

The NRL players got off far too lightly. If it happens with Essendon, which was a much much more institutionalised program, then Australian sport is officially a joke.

Ash...and please don't take this personally. but your club is already bankrupt, morally so

As long as Hird and Little represent the two sides to the overseeing of football at the EFC you will be ostracised from those that think what was, and continues to be, abhorrent.

That we might want to stick our collective size 10's into you lot is not surprising given the treatment over the years to our club at times by your clubs management etc.

Give, and you better be prepared to take.

That aside I ask, seriously, as an Essendon supporter ( and I presume Member ? ) will you be attending the next AGM and along with others with a better regard for whats right , incorrupt and scrupulous be demanding the instant removal of Hird and the purging of the current board ?

You seem a decent bloke, where does decency stand at Essendon ?

"Smugness" and "boasting"?

C'mon Jack, really have a good look at Jobes interview.

He was asked the question and he answered it, probably too honestly for his own good.

I'm coping a lot on here, and most of it is fine, but I won't cop that you think Jobe was smug with his admission.

You're better than that.

But your other points are valid, and I think people here are misreading what I am saying.

I am in complete agreement that any minor confusions between ASADA and WADA along the way should in no way lessen any impact on what Essendon has done and what will come of this.

The "Chinks in the armour" comment was just giving you guys an insight into what it's like to be an Essendon person at the moment.

I don't think the WADA/ASADA stuff is a chink, but as supporters, and I guess as a club, we are always looking for something.

And bing181, I've long stopped trying to "reinforce my argument" on here a week ago. No point. You guys have your minds made up, and rightly so.

I come here, have a bit of a chat about it, no real biggie for me.

I read that people here want my club to become bankrupt, kicked out of the comp forever, we are called Essendrugs, everyone is dancing on our graves and we aren't even in the ground yet, and you guys are loving it. And please don't deny it.

But honestly mate, it's fine. I have a pretty thick skin these days. This is a Melbourne FC forum.

I'm not here looking for sympathy or an argument.

So if a little light hearted comment about cheerleaders for team ASADA bothers you, I'm sorry.

no amount of nice guys chatting to us from the tumbril is going to change anything.

I think Essendon members ought to have put some pressure on the club, a long time ago; you are complicit by inaction in the face of outrageous behaviour in the organisation you are members of. Where has been the revolt against such unacceptable behaviour?

Chatting with us doesn't cut it, you should see that. You have failed to do what had to be done.

no amount of nice guys chatting to us from the tumbril is going to change anything.

I think Essendon members ought to have put some pressure on the club, a long time ago; you are complicit by inaction in the face of outrageous behaviour in the organisation you are members of. Where has been the revolt against such unacceptable behaviour?

Chatting with us doesn't cut it, you should see that. You have failed to do what had to be done.

Not sure how much pressure they can put on, Robbie. Seems like a lot of them actually support Hird.

I'd love to know hoe many #standbyhird members there are vs reasonable ones.

Ash....are you a parent ?

If you are, what's you view , as one, towards the actions and seemingly spellbound co-operation that the players parent are affording the club.

I ask not as entrapment but with genuine interest because I can't ( as a parent of a 20yo Boy ) understand it for a second.

Not sure how much pressure they can put on, Robbie. Seems like a lot of them actually support Hird.

I'd love to know hoe many #standbyhird members there are vs reasonable ones.

Break ranks, tell the truth. Blow the whistle. Step out of the "everyone hold your breath, we can still get out of it" mentality, and try to find where decency lies in this shambles of a club, in the grip as it is of such cheating creeps. When Essendon started going vague, and then suing the umpire, time to start blowing some loud and public whistles. A challenge to the Board at least, and get the issues out in the public eye. How do they live with themselves, waiting to see if they will get away with it? Tip the first domino, damn it! Not one of them has had the decency to do it!

I once saw Big Carl king-hit Madden (I think it was) at a boundary throw-in at Windy Hill right in front of me. I couldn't utter a squeak for the rest of the game. Some things just aren't right. But none of this drugs affair has provoked a single Essendon person to step away from the crap.

If you haven't got a whistle to blow, then demand answers, and challenge if they clearly are not going to tell anybody any truth about this. Hird and Little and whoever else have destroyed the reputation of the club. Doesn't anybody there object? Where's the love of the game among all these Essendon people? Not one of them!

Ash....are you a parent ?

If you are, what's you view , as one, towards the actions and seemingly spellbound co-operation that the players parent are affording the club.

I ask not as entrapment but with genuine interest because I can't ( as a parent of a 20yo Boy ) understand it for a second.

It the only reason I could explain it.

An average training season for MessyDrugs in 2011 and 1012

Looks more like a comment on consumerism and materialism to me, nothing to do with Essendon.

If all the syringes said "whatever it takes", then I reckon it'd be on the money.

Whatever we can hit

Looks more like a comment on consumerism and materialism to me, nothing to do with Essendon.

If all the syringes said "whatever it takes", then I reckon it'd be on the money.

Whatever it takes to mock this Club!

Ash...

I think it is a shocking blight on the competion when Jobe Watson can wear the 2012 Charlie around whilst admitting to taking enhancing drugs during a TV interview.

And if my club the MFC was involved in all this, which we very nearly were, I would wish to see players banned with maximum penalties..Coaches and admin banned from the sport.

Performance enhancing drugs cannot be allowed under any circumstance...If the AFL are lenient on anybody over this incident they are walking a tightrope, as somebody down the line will take a gamble.

I no longer watch or care about The Tour de France because of how dirty it became.

The AFL better not go lenient because of the Broadcast deals...Better to Take a hit now and stay clean...than to sweep it under the carpet for now.

Perhaps including Simon Goodwin.

Could be a worry ...

Controversial, however as a member I'd like transparency on this. I think that as members we deserve to know exactly what questions the MFC posed to Simon Goodwin (about his degree of involvement in the Essendon fiasco) and what his responses were.

We saw where 'blind faith' got the Bombers.

When Goodwin's appointment was first announced, my immediate though was "has he been involved"?

I sincerely trust and believe that PJ at least has done full due diligence and found him to be in the clear.

A last minute hitch on his eligibility could seriously be terminal for this struggling club.

And to give them their due they have performed admirably on the field against the odds. I shudder to think how our Melbourne players would have gone under the same pressure

They have held up extremely well - does anyone here who knows facts about these drugs (if anyone in fact does) know if they persist and engender bravado and denial?

Roos had a very full and frank discussion with Simon . Roos is on record ( somewhere ) as saying it was very much his ( SG) openness and willingness to discuss his involvement in all of that which actually enamored Goodwin to Roosey

Be interesting certainly how it all pans out but I dont believe for a sec the club is unaware of where anyone sits.

no amount of nice guys chatting to us from the tumbril is going to change anything.

I think Essendon members ought to have put some pressure on the club, a long time ago; you are complicit by inaction in the face of outrageous behaviour in the organisation you are members of. Where has been the revolt against such unacceptable behaviour?

Chatting with us doesn't cut it, you should see that. You have failed to do what had to be done.

Are you serious?

Ash...and please don't take this personally. but your club is already bankrupt, morally so

As long as Hird and Little represent the two sides to the overseeing of football at the EFC you will be ostracised from those that think what was, and continues to be, abhorrent.

That we might want to stick our collective size 10's into you lot is not surprising given the treatment over the years to our club at times by your clubs management etc.

Give, and you better be prepared to take.

That aside I ask, seriously, as an Essendon supporter ( and I presume Member ? ) will you be attending the next AGM and along with others with a better regard for whats right , incorrupt and scrupulous be demanding the instant removal of Hird and the purging of the current board ?

You seem a decent bloke, where does decency stand at Essendon ?

Yep, I'm a member, have been for about 20 years.

Do I wish things have been handled differently? Yes

Do I think turning up to the AGM and demanding change will help? Maybe

But realistically, unless someone puts their hand up to replace the board, all the protests about the place won't help.

I'm amazed at how few "rumblings" have come from outside the inner sanctum of the club in relations to board challenges etc

Maybe the club is so [censored] at the moment, no one wants to jump into the crap storm that is being involved with the EFC.

Yes I want change. At board level and in relation to Hird.

When I get the chance to elect board members as my right as a member, I will vote accordingly.

But I have said all along, I don't believe Hird should be involved in the club.

I struggle at times to see why so many supporters still back him.

As for Paul Little, I'm undecided.

He has come in half way through, and he has gone about things completely differently to the way Evans was handling things.

From what I know about him, that's his style.

He has had to deal with an incredibly unique situation.

Obviously most think he has gone about it poorly, but I don't envy him and the circumstances he has found himself in.

I will buy a membership next year, no matter what happens.

I am of the believe I am an Essendon supporter, and the club is bigger than any person involved.

The club needs my membership more than it ever has.

Ash is it possible that those wishing to initiate a coup are just waiting for the final arrows to be loosed ?

I have heard a little ( npi ) whisper that suggest a number are waiting until the Hird debacle is over and the club can be deposed in a less bloody fashion. I acknowledge that makes sense. It seems a rational approach form those who move and shake things. Softly Softly Whack etc

I know a few Essendon supporters and none are overly happy but what seems odd to me is, as you put it there are very few rumblings.

The media fanboys have gone to ground ( not far enough for mine ) but the typical man/woman/parent dissent is simply , and amazingly, non-existent.

If it were my 20yo involved id be taking a very dim view, disassociating myself from the club, seeking independent health and legal advice and quite frankly... doing whatever it took .... to bring them down. Its a lot easier these days with social media to invoke a groundswell. , but there seems to be NONE..Incredulous

Ash....are you a parent ?

If you are, what's you view , as one, towards the actions and seemingly spellbound co-operation that the players parent are affording the club.

I ask not as entrapment but with genuine interest because I can't ( as a parent of a 20yo Boy ) understand it for a second.

Yes, I have children. So like all parents, our natural reaction is to be outraged and do what we can to protect our children and their interests.

But I don't know what is being told to them by the club.

I'm certain that concerns have been raised during the many meetings the club has had with the parents and partners.

But as to how those concerns are being answered, your guess is as good as mine.

I'm sure if the information given by the club was not satisfactory, the families would be taking action.

This is one aspect of the saga that doesn't get a lot of publicity, unless it's the "Essendon mother" ringing up radio stations.

But behind closed doors, you would think the families must have concerns, but for whatever reason, they are keeping those concerns private for the time being.

Round 14 2012

Forget about duty of care and/or the remote possibility of medical complications . . this issue is about cheating!

It's about obtaining an unfair advantage, its about shortcuts to getting bigger and stronger, its about changing the players physiology permanently.

It's also about getting beat by these guy's in 10 yrs time when you ride against them along Beach Rd or running around the lake, they've been 'fixed',

'altered', 'enhanced', they are very much cheats for life!!

Ban em for six weeks or six months don't matter, they'll do the time but they'll be back to enjoy the proceeds of the crime (at our expense)!

Yep, I'm a member, have been for about 20 years.

Do I wish things have been handled differently? Yes

Do I think turning up to the AGM and demanding change will help? Maybe

But realistically, unless someone puts their hand up to replace the board, all the protests about the place won't help.

I'm amazed at how few "rumblings" have come from outside the inner sanctum of the club in relations to board challenges etc

Maybe the club is so [censored] at the moment, no one wants to jump into the crap storm that is being involved with the EFC.

Yes I want change. At board level and in relation to Hird.

When I get the chance to elect board members as my right as a member, I will vote accordingly.

But I have said all along, I don't believe Hird should be involved in the club.

I struggle at times to see why so many supporters still back him.

As for Paul Little, I'm undecided.

He has come in half way through, and he has gone about things completely differently to the way Evans was handling things.

From what I know about him, that's his style.

He has had to deal with an incredibly unique situation.

Obviously most think he has gone about it poorly, but I don't envy him and the circumstances he has found himself in.

I will buy a membership next year, no matter what happens.

I am of the believe I am an Essendon supporter, and the club is bigger than any person involved.

The club needs my membership more than it ever has.

I feel for you Ash. As a passionate supporter you must feel the pain of the actions your club took at that time deeply. And despite that yes, of course you gotta buy your membership and keep doing so!

Yet Its an unpalatable truth that the results you got at the start of that year were very VERY likely the direct result of drug use. Its absolute rubbish to think that they dont have records of exactly what was given.

I feel frustrated that, via robbo and some of his cronies, everyone has banded together to attack ASADA and defend the club/ coach/ doctor from indefensible positions.When the dees were slugged and shamed re the whole tanking that was an AFL issue that got directed at us. This, sadly, is a club issue that some people have tried to turn back the other way and have it be an AFL issue or a ASADA issue. It isnt.

Essendon is a power club and will bounce back in ways we mightn't have had we been in your shoes. dont I wish we had the media defense unit that your club has. !

But imo evans was right at the very beginning. Own up to it...take the whack.....move on as best you can...and let it wash away over time. It IS a shameful chapter in the clubs history .....and no one can undo that regardless of which action is taken. But leaving the coach intact only riles up everyone else watching on.

Its good you want a new coach as If a new coach AND board isnt put into place you cant expect much sympathy from the public in general. It feels like a refusal to see the magnitude of what they organised/ agreed to. Which is the flavour in the air atm.

Are you serious?

yes. Are Essendon members?

When Goodwin's appointment was first announced, my immediate though was "has he been involved"?

I sincerely trust and believe that PJ at least has done full due diligence and found him to be in the clear.

A last minute hitch on his eligibility could seriously be terminal for this struggling club.

They have held up extremely well - does anyone here who knows facts about these drugs (if anyone in fact does) know if they persist and engender bravado and denial?

I came so close to not Supporting the Dees due to the appointment of Goodwin as Senior Assistant Coach. As I hate any drugs in sport and those that support them, that much.

Yep, I'm a member, have been for about 20 years.

Do I wish things have been handled differently? Yes

Do I think turning up to the AGM and demanding change will help? Maybe

But realistically, unless someone puts their hand up to replace the board, all the protests about the place won't help.

I'm amazed at how few "rumblings" have come from outside the inner sanctum of the club in relations to board challenges etc

Maybe the club is so [censored] at the moment, no one wants to jump into the crap storm that is being involved with the EFC.

Yes I want change. At board level and in relation to Hird.

When I get the chance to elect board members as my right as a member, I will vote accordingly.

But I have said all along, I don't believe Hird should be involved in the club.

I struggle at times to see why so many supporters still back him.

As for Paul Little, I'm undecided.

He has come in half way through, and he has gone about things completely differently to the way Evans was handling things.

From what I know about him, that's his style.

He has had to deal with an incredibly unique situation.

Obviously most think he has gone about it poorly, but I don't envy him and the circumstances he has found himself in.

I will buy a membership next year, no matter what happens.

I am of the believe I am an Essendon supporter, and the club is bigger than any person involved.

The club needs my membership more than it ever has.

Good on you Ash for continuing to supoort your club. I think that some people get caught up in the mistakes of an administration and think that a club that is more than 100 years old should perish because of this.

I believe Little was a board member at the time of the supplement program so would think that when this is over he and the other board members would step down and allow the club to move forward.

I feel for the players in this as the club has let them down badly and I commend the players for sticking together and making the 8 in both seasons this has gone on for.

One final point where I think the EFC have a right to take issue is the "Blackest day in sport" announcement by the Government of the day that made the situation much worse for all involved, including the EFC, AFL and ASADA. I think the penalty handed down by ASADA should in some way recognise this.

The "blackest day(s) in sport" were those days when 34 Essendon players were getting shot full of performance enhancing drugs!!!!

It may be hard to comprehend because of the sheer size of the crime: 34 players from the one team have doped!

This is crazy serious, we are not talking sport drinks or a "one off" jab to mend some injury, this was hard core world first team doping!

Time we stopped with the namby pampy attitude, when one player dopes we want him hung when the whole team dopes we look for excuses

and want to send them off for counselling! Not good enough!

Time to harden-up chaps we are already the laughing stock of world sport!!!

Essendon is the club that was caught, didnt Danks have something to do with Geelong and the Suns before going to Essendon. I would expect other clubs or players have likewise pushed the boundary as players are potentially able to be rewarded with Million dollar deals, so some players/teams may also walk over that line because the rewards are too great and the chances of being detected appear to be very very low.

"Smugness" and "boasting"?

C'mon Jack, really have a good look at Jobes interview.

He was asked the question and he answered it, probably too honestly for his own good.

Ash, I know you're copping a lot but please don't take offence at my characterisation of Jobe's comments. His response came across to me as being cocky and smug because, by that time, AOD9604 had been clearly identified as a banned peptide on the WADA S0 list and, despite that, Dank was at the same time crowing that he had advice from deep "in the bowels of ASADA" that it could be injected into the Essendon players. Watson must have known at the time of the interview that the club was trying to exploit a loophole at best.

AOD9604 remains to this day on the S0 list when injected and, whether Jobe was being truthful or not, he made a big mistake with his comments in that interview. If he was a dummy like Brock McLean, you would expect that sort of reply but Jobe's the skipper of the club and normally a smart bloke. That wasn't his finest hour and I hope his words don't come back to haunt him.