The mixed messages are unbelievable

Bomber: the players were briefed on the supplements and their potential health risks, one infact cures cancer

EFC: the players and club didn't know what they were being administered but we know that it's not banned

Dank: on different occasions has both confirmed and denied the use of TB4, but has consistently said the players knew what they were taking

they have shot themselves in the foot.

NM: Thymosin Beta 4 – why was that used in Essendon players given there is an opinion from a doctor or researcher and other scientists that its effects are uncertain? (note: The AFL believes it has a strong circumstantial case that TB-4 was used on players.)

SD: That's not totally true Nick because, with all due respect, right, there is good data – very good data – that supports Thymosin Beta 4 in the immune system.

NM: OK, why give it to all Essendon players if only some of them had colds and flu?

SD: Well, the point is that there is a degree of immunosuppression after a game or a hard training week, right. Often times the ability to back up next week is decreased by the hit on the immune system.

NM: Did you see any indications in Essendon players that it actually helped them?

SD: Well apart from the fact they won 11 out of their first 14, right, and we did regular bloods [blood tests] . . . at the end of the day I was very happy with the science, I was very happy after working a long time in football, right, that there are periods of malaise which are possibly related to sub-clinical flus and sub-clinical colds, right, which can affect performance. When we want to be honest, Nick, how much performance data is there out there on Actovegin [calf's blood extract)]

NM: There's a lot, isn't there?

SD: No there's not! So, you know, you've got to extrapolate from the science.

NM: How often were Essendon players taking Thymosin Beta 4?

SD: [Explains the dosage level but asks that this be not published].

NM: ASADA has just released on its website that Thymosin Beta 4 is prohibited in all routes and out of competition.

SD: Well, that must have just only come in this year and I will get someone to speak to ASADA about that. That's just mind-blowing.

NM: Thymosin Beta 4, they must have just banned that.

SD: I think they've only just put that in to back up their case.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-science-of-stephen-dank-20130823-2shhd.html#ixzz370x3HzZZ

The only problem with this is that it is thymomodulin that helps with the immune sytem, whereas thymosin beta 4 helps repair damaged tissue.

i can see why the essendon apologists would say that he just had the names of his substances mixed up

of course, if he had them mixed up from the start then he has still given the players TB-4!

of course, if he has given them TB4 instead of thymomodulin and had fantastic results then he probably thinks it worked brilliantly and that he is a genius.

Dank comes out with... They knew what they were taking. I'll just take that as He knew what he was giving them also !!

The only problem with this is that it is thymomodulin that helps with the immune sytem, whereas thymosin beta 4 helps repair damaged tissue.

i can see why the essendon apologists would say that he just had the names of his substances mixed up

of course, if he had them mixed up from the start then he has still given the players TB-4!

of course, if he has given them TB4 instead of thymomodulin and had fantastic results then he probably thinks it worked brilliantly and that he is a genius.

Had the names mixed up and proven to have bought and paid for TB4

I feel sorry for Essendon because all of the circumstances are being twisted and misinterpreted to make them look guilty of something they cant prove they didn't do. With all this false circumstantial evidence mounting up its no wonder the only option to prove their innocence is to ensure it never sees then light of day.

I agree with Little and Hird, how can a government authority possibly believe numerous corroborating peices of evidence when Essendon have clearly and consistently stated they did nothing wrong. It beggers belief!!!!

yeah well thats right.

If i asked you to go to the supermarket and get smarties when i meant m&ms, youd go and get smarties!

i cant turn around and then say, sorry, i meant m&ms so the smarties i ate dont count!

Had the names mixed up and proven to have bought and paid for TB4

I feel sorry for Essendon because all of the circumstances are being twisted and misinterpreted to make them look guilty of something they cant prove they didn't do. With all this false circumstantial evidence mounting up its no wonder the only option to prove their innocence is to ensure it never sees then light of day.

I agree with Little and Hird, how can a government authority possibly believe numerous corroborating peices of evidence when Essendon have clearly and consistently stated they did nothing wrong. It beggers belief!!!!

it's a fit up !!!

yeah well thats right.

If i asked you to go to the supermarket and get smarties when i meant m&ms, youd go and get smarties!

i cant turn around and then say, sorry, i meant m&ms so the smarties i ate dont count!

Windy Hil is attempting a game of 3 card monte.

ASADA aint buying though

Last one for the day.

yeah well thats right.

If i asked you to go to the supermarket and get smarties when i meant m&ms, youd go and get smarties!

i cant turn around and then say, sorry, i meant m&ms so the smarties i ate dont count!

But what if you asked me to buy the Smarties knowing that all you were going to give me were the M&Ms you already had. You then give me the M&Ms, I'm none the wiser because I can't tell a Smartie from an M&M, and you give the Smarties I paid for to someone else.

I can see reasons why Dank doesn't want to talk to ASADA which might have nothing to do with any illegality involving Essendon. It would be defamatory to go further, but let's just say it might involve clubs in other sports altogether.

The mixed messages are unbelievable

Bomber: the players were briefed on the supplements and their potential health risks, one infact cures cancer

EFC: the players and club didn't know what they were being administered but we know that it's not banned

Dank: on different occasions has both confirmed and denied the use of TB4, but has consistently said the players knew what they were taking

they have shot themselves in the foot.

Surely it is far worse than just shooting themselves in the foot (which I imagine would be a pretty bad thing in itself) - they have surely gone and all shot each other.

A bit analogous to suicide Bombers.

But what if you asked me to buy the Smarties knowing that all you were going to give me were the M&Ms you already had. You then give me the M&Ms, I'm none the wiser because I can't tell a Smartie from an M&M, and you give the Smarties I paid for to someone else.

I can see reasons why Dank doesn't want to talk to ASADA which might have nothing to do with any illegality involving Essendon. It would be defamatory to go further, but let's just say it might involve clubs in other sports altogether.

I see where you are going but I think it's more straightforward. EFC, Dank etc simply want to create confusion and doubt. The soft tissue injuries support the use of PEDs.

I see where you are going but I think it's more straightforward. EFC, Dank etc simply want to create confusion and doubt. The soft tissue injuries support the use of PEDs.

yes...lets keep it KISS

Mark Robinson mentioned on SEN last night that James Hird helped Dr Reid write his famous letter

You know, the letter that Hird claims he never saw?

The web of lies is starting to come undone. Hoping he is grilled hard over this claim.

James hird helped him write a letter to James hird?

Seriously if they are going to be this stupid at least break out the Chewbacca defence

The Bombers are currently running the wimbledon defence (just keep whacking things back over the net until the other person makes a mistake). The supporters appear to have envoked the ostrich defence.

Mark Robinson mentioned on SEN last night that James Hird helped Dr Reid write his famous letter

You know, the letter that Hird claims he never saw?

The web of lies is starting to come undone. Hoping he is grilled hard over this claim.

Have you got this written somewhere or podcasted?

What beggars beliefs for me is so many claims by people either within the Essendon Club or affiliated with the club that the players took nothing illegal - this is being spruked with so much ferocity and volume yet no one can produce a list of what they actually took ?

What beggars beliefs for me is so many claims by people either within the Essendon Club or affiliated with the club that the players took nothing illegal - this is being spruked with so much ferocity and volume yet no one can produce a list of what they actually took ?

Maybe they couldn't list the drugs because they were just so new and cutting edge (and of course safe and possibly cancer curing) that they hadn't even been named yet :-)

Essendon to date have used the défense de connerie.

Essendon parler tellement la merde qu'ils espérant masquer la vérité.

Thought this line was interesting from barrett. Hadn't seen it anywhere before

"There was also a period when certain substances were administered before those forms were signed.

The AFL Players' Association has confirmed this, and remains doubly concerned as to what happened in this period."

This is amazing - which in itself is amazing given all of the other shiite going on....

Mark Robinson mentioned on SEN last night that James Hird helped Dr Reid write his famous letter

You know, the letter that Hird claims he never saw?

The web of lies is starting to come undone. Hoping he is grilled hard over this claim.

Whaaaatttt? Surely not

Why thre hasn't been more scrutinty over this mysterious letter I;ll never know....

Reid should go

What beggars beliefs for me is so many claims by people either within the Essendon Club or affiliated with the club that the players took nothing illegal - this is being spruked with so much ferocity and volume yet no one can produce a list of what they actually took ?

Its Ok Nut....its safe....whatever it was ...its safe....and...ummm not banned either... Its all good

Whaaaatttt? Surely not

Why thre hasn't been more scrutinty over this mysterious letter I;ll never know....

Reid should go

if Hird helped construct this letter it could bring down the whole club.

Head coach writes letter on behalf of club doctor in relation to drug supplements then denies it exists???

Fcuk me. Jail time looms for some of these suits.

I big issue for me that I havent seen rasied here or brought up through any external source is the role of the AFLPA in this disaster.

I recon they should be a critical support to the players but from what I have read they appear to have been caught up in the Essendon twaddle, I assume with the agreement of the players.

My view is they should remain well and truely at arms length from anyone other than the players. I was very concerned to see that the AFLPA and Essendon lawyers appeared to be one and the same. From memory the lead QC for the players legal team was previously used by the Bombers. There is a significant conflict of interest between the Bombers and the players and the AFLPA should not be working with an Essendon funded legal team, they should be providing independant advice. Essendon payng the players legal costs comes at cost, the lawyers will do the bidding of the bloke writng the cheques not the susposed client.

I have concerns that the players remain loyal to a club that I think has questionable morals and have clearly set themselves and the players on a collision course with the rest of the world. The AFLPA regardless of the wishes of the players should ensure that each player has access to independant high quality confidential legal advice that they can access if they as individuals decide they would like to. This pack mentality is a real concern for these young men.