Do you still beat your wife?

Not falling for that one wyl.

As I said I think there is zero to be gained by continuing a never ending discussion.

Hopefully a result will be known before too many more months go past.

It is quite simple...You cannot have an 18 month supplement program without keeping Data recorded on each person involved.

However dodgy the chemical compounds may be..

It is quite simple...You cannot have an 18 month supplement program without keeping Data recorded on each person involved.

However dodgy the chemical compounds may be..

So wyl what do you think happened to the records?

I happen to know someone who was charged with a failure to keep full & factual records (I think that is what he said) But the truth be known he did keep those records and they were factual. He simply chose to not provide those records. One can only presume that the penalty for failure to keep was less that what may have occurred if that evidence had been forthcoming. Does this sound familiar? I think those records were hidden for a long time just in case they were really needed. Sound possible? This acquaintance, now departed put all those records somewhere, one day they may turn up. With EFC I reckon there may be more than one copy. They often say follow the money, Or who benefited or stands to benefit? We can guess. Young Jimmy's on a good wicket, $1mill for no work for a year, extended contract $250k towards education in Switzerland I think. Who else? One can only speculate.We may never know, "Underbelly 4 The Don" we may have to wait until everyone is dead.

It is quite simple...You cannot have an 18 month supplement program without keeping Data recorded on each person involved.

However dodgy the chemical compounds may be..

I swore I would stay off here but this is the potential flaw in your agreement

You assume this thing was well run.

Clearly it was not.

However poor you might considered it " it is possible to do what they did and not keep records".

I swore I would stay off here but this is the potential flaw in your agreement

You assume this thing was well run.

Clearly it was not.

However poor you might considered it " it is possible to do what they did and not keep records".

Many things are possible OD.

It is possible we were the only side that tanked.

It is possible that African Swallows tethered together could carry a coconut.

That is not what happened at the EFC

Many things are possible OD.

It is possible we were the only side that tanked.

It is possible that African Swallows tethered together could carry a coconut.

That is not what happened at the EFC

This is definitely my last comment

This is definitely my last comment

no its not !! lol

no its not !! lol

Stop baiting OD.

I think we can get him to bite. Perhaps we could take bets on how long it will take.

This is definitely my last comment

no its not !! lol

Stop baiting OD.

I think we can get him to bite. Perhaps we could take bets on how long it will take.

leave him alone.

he has to have his afternoon nap and teeth put back in before he posts again.

I swore I would stay off here but this is the potential flaw in your agreement

You assume this thing was well run.

Clearly it was not.

However poor you might considered it " it is possible to do what they did and not keep records".

Sorry to tempt you to have another word, but what evidence is there for your saying "Clearly it was not <well run>"? I mean beyond the fact they got caught?

leave him alone.

he has to have his afternoon nap and teeth put back in before he posts again.

Do you have any proof that he needs to put his teeth in to type or is that simply your opinion?

Do you have any proof that he needs to put his teeth in to type or is that simply your opinion?

opinion,

well biff told that and im spreading it.

Im fine with OD stance..its just that...a stance..

I have a different one...and as Old suggest we'll know all...at some point...well certainly more than we do presently.

But Im also of the view it would be a strange mob indeed ( and maybe thats the out lol ) that would embark on such a thing higgledy piggledy..

EFC are far too arrogant an outfit and far too conceited not to have some plan and audit procedure.

What we can all , surely, agree to is that the records ( real or otherwise ) have not surfaced. Quite frankly I find that amazing. Electronically there's nearly always a trail. it stems from the ignorance of many ( not always their own fault ) that when files are deleted they are deleted...often its far from that its just they cease to be readily 'there'...but they are.

From the outset their ( EFC ) stance has been they have done no wrong , therefore its reasonable , again, to summise they kept tabs on what they were doing.

Did EFC , knowing they were 'pushing' things keep all and sundry 'off-site' ? This would certainly seem to the the case.

It just all strikes me as a little bit too much "they doth protest ( their innocence) too much "

recent statements and developments suggest to me that the dons are ready for pain.

the president and coaching staff are hoping it wont be bad ,but they know its going to come by the end of next month.

never been a betting man,but im willing to put 35c on an eviction from the house.

the big fella will make sure the dons will survive,but pain is coming.

So will they be needing Morphine, and / or antidepressants? By injection or by mouth?

Do they still deserve to be in the ANZAC day match??? Is this a club that embodies the ANZAC spirit of honesty bravery and self sacrifice?? Did the diggers do 'What ever it takes" or did they operate within moral boundaries and a sense of honour?

Take ANZAC day off this club, the have brought the game int direpute and dont deserve it.

....well they in all probability were not told what drugs they were being given, and I dare say records may have been rudimentary, and probably many were lost, so maybe the analogy is apt?

Im fine with OD stance..its just that...a stance..

I have a different one...and as Old suggest we'll know all...at some point...well certainly more than we do presently.

But Im also of the view it would be a strange mob indeed ( and maybe thats the out lol ) that would embark on such a thing higgledy piggledy..

EFC are far too arrogant an outfit and far too conceited not to have some plan and audit procedure.

What we can all , surely, agree to is that the records ( real or otherwise ) have not surfaced. Quite frankly I find that amazing. Electronically there's nearly always a trail. it stems from the ignorance of many ( not always their own fault ) that when files are deleted they are deleted...often its far from that its just they cease to be readily 'there'...but they are.

From the outset their ( EFC ) stance has been they have done no wrong , therefore its reasonable , again, to summise they kept tabs on what they were doing.

Did EFC , knowing they were 'pushing' things keep all and sundry 'off-site' ? This would certainly seem to the the case.

It just all strikes me as a little bit too much "they doth protest ( their innocence) too much "

Generally I agree, but the bolded statement doesn't hold water. Their public stance is they have done no wrong, but that doesn't mean they believed they were doing no wrong and thus wouldn't feel guilty about keeping records.

Im fine with OD stance..its just that...a stance..

I have a different one...and as Old suggest we'll know all...at some point...well certainly more than we do presently.

But Im also of the view it would be a strange mob indeed ( and maybe thats the out lol ) that would embark on such a thing higgledy piggledy..

EFC are far too arrogant an outfit and far too conceited not to have some plan and audit procedure.

What we can all , surely, agree to is that the records ( real or otherwise ) have not surfaced. Quite frankly I find that amazing. Electronically there's nearly always a trail. it stems from the ignorance of many ( not always their own fault ) that when files are deleted they are deleted...often its far from that its just they cease to be readily 'there'...but they are.

From the outset their ( EFC ) stance has been they have done no wrong , therefore its reasonable , again, to summise they kept tabs on what they were doing.

Did EFC , knowing they were 'pushing' things keep all and sundry 'off-site' ? This would certainly seem to the the case.

It just all strikes me as a little bit too much "they doth protest ( their innocence) too much "

You can't have it all ways.

1 Records not kept is wrong.

2 Records lost or destroyed is wrong.

Did they keep records or not?

Either way they have done wrong.

This all reminds me of the US government in pursuit of the gangster Al Capone.

The authorities could not get him for any of his nefarious activities. In the end he went to jail for tax evasion.

Maybe the EFC will get theirs in some unexpected way? We can only hope.

You can't have it all ways.

1 Records not kept is wrong.

2 Records lost or destroyed is wrong.

Did they keep records or not?

Either way they have done wrong.

I agree..

what Im saying is it reasonable to assume they did , because they maintained they were doing nothing untoward.

If they have no records (claimed ) , surely Worksafe would have them in their sights on that alone.

I agree , there is really no way they can work this rort without essentially admitting guilt to something.

where's rangey? we need a poll - LOL

I agree..

what Im saying is it reasonable to assume they did , because they maintained they were doing nothing untoward.

If they have no records (claimed ) , surely Worksafe would have them in their sights on that alone.

I agree , there is really no way they can work this rort without essentially admitting guilt to something.

I concur,

IMO they have chosen the path leading to the smallest penalty. In so doing they have opened the door to potentially massive claims from the players & Worksafe. Time will tell. One thing I am certain of, they are going to cop a whack at some time.

It is quite simple...You cannot have an 18 month supplement program without keeping Data recorded on each person involved.

However dodgy the chemical compounds may be..

One thing I have wondered about is the official Doc Reid records. Many players would have seen the Doc for various issues over the year. When ever I see a doctor they ask are you taking anything else, or are you on any medication, and they type it into their computer.

So surely somewhere in Doc Reid's computer records for the players there would be some reference to what was taken. If not, why not?

One thing I have wondered about is the official Doc Reid records. Many players would have seen the Doc for various issues over the year. When ever I see a doctor they ask are you taking anything else, or are you on any medication, and they type it into their computer.

So surely somewhere in Doc Reid's computer records for the players there would be some reference to what was taken. If not, why not?

The "poor old Doc Reid" theme is the biggest hoax of the whole charade!

Reid ought not be pitied, he ought to be condemned for his actions

Im fine with OD stance..its just that...a stance..

EFC are far too arrogant an outfit and far too conceited not to have some plan and audit procedure.

From the outset their ( EFC ) stance has been they have done no wrong , therefore its reasonable , again, to summise they kept tabs on what they were doing.

Its no more a stance than your claims. And you have little substantive to back it up.

As far as EFC's plan and audit procedures is concerned its already been established through the Ziggy report and the ASADA interim report that there has been a systemic failure of governance at the club. Poor or absent reporting lines, unclear roles and responsibilities with no line of sight of operations with no formalised reporting up the chain with inadequate record keeping. EFC's failings are symbolic of what has happened in a number of major corporate governance disasters especially in the financial services industry. In short its clear they did not keep tabs and as a result elements within the club have been extremely reckless.

And EFC have not adopted as stance they have done no wrong. They have mea culpaed on a number of issues as stated but have not accepted that they deliberately and intentionally exposed the players to a doping program. And the lack of governance framework at the club has meant that individuals like Hird and Reid were not formally responsible. Their position does not wash with anyone who is not a fanatical Essendon supporter.

Generally I agree, but the bolded statement doesn't hold water. Their public stance is they have done no wrong, but that doesn't mean they believed they were doing no wrong and thus wouldn't feel guilty about keeping records.

Essendon realise there have been substantial failings on their behalf. They just dont accept that the outcomes were a deliberate plan to run a doping system.

You can't have it all ways.

1 Records not kept is wrong.

2 Records lost or destroyed is wrong.

Did they keep records or not?

Either way they have done wrong.

I dont think that is in dispute at all....by anyone including EFC.

However EFC would acknowledge the first point but not the second point. And there is no evidence to validate the second point. Its not clear we will know more once ASADA reports

If the 2nd point were to be proven as fact then the implications of this whole scandal become far far more serious.

One thing I have wondered about is the official Doc Reid records. Many players would have seen the Doc for various issues over the year. When ever I see a doctor they ask are you taking anything else, or are you on any medication, and they type it into their computer.

So surely somewhere in Doc Reid's computer records for the players there would be some reference to what was taken. If not, why not?

The "poor old Doc Reid" theme is the biggest hoax of the whole charade!

Reid ought not be pitied, he ought to be condemned for his actions

Reid was aware but not in charge of the supplements program.

His awareness of the program and failure to push his visionary concerns about the program are appalling.

He should have resigned when he was not being heard but instead he went silent.

Pathetic.